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Believer08
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Why would God create/make someone if He already knows they are going to choose to be evil and go to hell?
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It's not His wish that anyone goes to hell or perish. He gave us free will which means you make choices in life as to who you want to follow. Many years ago a person ask Billy Graham what's the first thing your going to ask God when you see Him? He said using two words, "Why Me." Please read Deuteronomy 30:19-20.
IN GOD THE SON,
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IN GOD THE SON,
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Believer08
Guest
Because they may serve a purpose in the life of a redeemed person. His ways are higher than ours.
Because they may serve a purpose in the life of a redeemed person. His ways are higher than ours.
Romans 9:19-21 One of you will say to me, “Then why does God still find fault? For who can resist His will?” But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to Him who formed it, “Why did You make me like this?” Does not the potter have the right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special occasions and another for common use?
One way to look at is that God had to create beings with free will. Why? Because otherwise, you have no better than apes. God made man in His image. Man was as close to God as he could be without actually being God. Now God giving man the ability to choose does not mean that God in any way forced man to choose evil.
God is not man. God's ways are perfect, just and beyond human understanding. God created no one evil. Just be glad that God did not deal with mankind as He did with the world prior to the flood that destroyed everyone apart from Noah and his family.
I don't know. He created us and we made sure we were all going to hell. But for His glory He made a way to be redeemed. Because He is great and for His glory, but this is a Question for God to answer, not us. How can any of us know the mind of God? I'm not bold enough to even approach answering this and am very weary of any other mans answer as well.
God's reasoning is a glorious demonstration of His sovereignty over all creation.
He was not deterred from establishing His creation, despite foreknowing how the greater part of men, created in His image and likeness, would become so infatuated with the creation, they'd reject Him as their very Creator.
A lesser god (there is no God beside Him) would have revised the plan for creation and done away with the intention to grant men the freewill to choose between good and evil.
But God, in His infinite wisdom, wanting His creation to love Him autonomously (as a matter of choice) rather than being predisposed (no choice but) to love Him, planned for the redemption of fallen mankind through the promised Savior. His Son, who came into the world to give His life as a ransom for many; bringing up the curtain on the ministry of reconciliation, through the forgiveness of sin.
When we understand that reconciliation is at the heart of the Gospel, we come to realise that to have been redeemed, we must have first been separated from God. We had/have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, before we made a faith based decision to follow after our Messiah.
We all have our origins in the fall, hence the choice to continue in evil, or renounce our former way of life in the Light of the Gospel. Even those who are born again had to die to their old nature.
That, unfortunately became this, by Free-will to choose bad or good
God being the only one good. forever in giving free will to all to choose to believe God loves us all or not. 1John 2
This leaves, us to choose. Well otherwise can anyone get anyone to love them without taking away free choice to choose?
If I get anyone to love me, by taking away their free choice to choose to love me. Even though one might say they Love me, do they really love me? What is my motive to believe God the creator of all? money, children, wife , car, what is it. We all die one day, read Ecclesiastes please
Me, to just know this God that loves me and all as well, unconditionally!
What? So we get a license to sin? Yes, you do, yet by Law you won't let go, afraid of God that is why you are caught up in sin, by trying not to sin, pleasing religious people.
The perplexity revealed in Romans 7, context in Chapters 6-8
Phil 3 for those under Law to do to get, in spite of getting given it from Gos through Son
Believe God, receive truth from God and see new in Father and Son for you too, Thanks
How are we slave of sin, and have free will? We have agency no doubt, we're told to "choose". I in no way disagree that we have choice and that choice matters. So please don't throw me in the "we're all robots" camp yet.
But I just don't like the term free will, I think it implies something that isn't true. Until we are born again we are slaves of sin. Well at least any of us that sins. Then we are born of the Spirit and are slave of obedience leading to righteousness. I know we can debate this endlessly without ever moving an inch either way, but this is what His word says.
He doesn't operate that way he creates us all with an equal chance with him we create ourselves to be vessels of judgement not him a potter creates his craft each one with great care and even though Jesus still knew many would not recieve him he spoke anyways even unto the unbelieving who he knew would turn away. why is that? it is because he still gives the choice to follow him or not he calls us to obey and follow him both being matters of choice so we choose what vessels we become
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Believer08
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Ever seen a smoker develope thier habit ? First they start choosing to smoke freely they think it’s cool or thier fanily does it ect friends but the point is they aren’t enslaved to the cigarette until they expose tbier body to the chemicals and for awhile it doesn’t control them but after awhile the sinker is addicted and needs to get a cigarette
He wasn’t born a slave to smoking but he became one through his choices .that’s how adults become slaves to sin we touch and feel and see and take in the forbidden and corrupt and our flesh begins to crave it
So those desires become like a bondage or yoke of slavery . It’s who we choose to serve that we become servants of
“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;
whether of sin unto death,
or of obedience unto righteousness?”
Romans 6:16 KJV
whej a human lives eventually we developed cravings and habits but they don’t control us or have great influence until after we partake some times freely . Sin is the same way that
The person you may have quoted here for my comment is on my ignore list, so your quote is not showing.
I think quibbling about the term free will vs. agency is silly since they are essentially synonymous, meaning the ability to choose regarding what matters--which is saving faith or being born again of the Spirit and serving/obeying God.
By such quibbling you do seem to equate the term slave with being a robot, thereby contradicting yourself, and you are right to imply that it is wrong to debate this with yourself endlessly--so don't!
When we are slaves to sin, we are self-willed, self-determined, self-sufficient etc. By continuing to live for ourselves, we are choosing not to live for Him that died for all and rose again. That is an act of volation; an expression of free will.
That's how a sinner can be a slave, bound by the chains of sin, while simultaneously exercising free will, preferring to be god over their own life, rather than choosing the life God would have us all live.
Free will is the power to make a decision independently. We either live in wilful ignorance, falling in favour of our flesh, or we live by faith in the Son of God, who loves us and gave His life for us.
One choice; no alternatives. We are given the freedom to choose, but with there being no alternative, other than the flesh, or the Spirit, we are figuratively shackled/restrained, like a slave, compelled, with no smorgasbord of options to pick from.
That's why it does not exist. There is no such thing as free will given how constrained by many factors
our will is, not the least of which is being taken captive to the will of the devil as a lover of darkness.
Choice without alternative options?!
MFW only exists when there is the possibility of choosing between two qualitatively opposite moral options that we call good and evil. These options are opposites because of essentially different consequences for choosing them. Choosing good results in blessing, life and heaven; and choosing evil results in cursing, death and hell (DT 30:19). This is why hell as well as heaven exists. It is the just consequence for choosing evil rather than God. The Spirit of God is good: love, peace and joy (GL 5:22-23). Therefore, whoever rejects the Lord is spiritually separated from Him (IS 59:2) and thereby chooses the evil or satanic spirit of hatred, strife and misery and reaps the just consequence called “hell” in the afterlife (GL 6:7-9, HB 9:27-28). These options were presented by Moses to the Israelites (DT 30:19), and Jesus referred to this fundamental choice in terms of a fish or egg versus a snake or scorpion (LK 11:11-13). Life… or Curse? (GN 3:24, RV 22:1-2)
God created theoretical evil or the possibility of rejecting Him as an option that actualizes MFW/free human personality. As such it is necessary and even good (GN 1:31). Of course, it was wrong for Satan (1JN 3:8) and humanity (RM 5:12) to make evil actual by choosing to Sin or reject Faith in God’s Lordship. Sin: ignoring God/God’s Word.
God loves a cheerful giver (2CR 9:7), which means He desires people to cooperate with Him happily because of love and gratitude for His grace rather than to cower before Him because of fear of hell. Love must be evoked; it cannot be coerced. And again, when souls sin or do NOT choose to love God freely, it is perfectly just (loving and logical) for them to reap the appropriate consequence (GL 6:7-9) or hell.