Why the story of Job occurred in the 6th century.

[posthuman]

This is a really interesting idea. Never looked at it that way

the context in which it opens, that frames the whole story, is all of the angels presenting themselves before the LORD on His throne. it's there, with all the angels present, that God makes Satan confess he has been on earth, roaming it, and calls his attention to Job, saying he is blameless and upright.

this isn't taking place with human witnesses - no where in the book does Job learn of these events. this is all happening for anger ls to witness, and they watch what Satan does, and what Job does, and his friends, and Elihu.

so i see this as something primarily for the angels - God only replies to Job essentially, 'Who are you to question me?' and does not deign to explain the events. Job, being righteous, answers in agreement, he humbles himself and confesses he has spoken about things too wonderful for him.

but the angels hear Satan making this bet boasting against God, over whether Job only respects God because he has been materially blessed - effectively that God's praise is 'bought' unfairly through bribery, as it were. to the angels this is a lesson in righteousness and humility before God, a tacit rebuke of Satans rebellion and refusal to repent even when he has been humbled, cast out of heaven and relegated to the earth. Job is a witness to them, Elihu a witness both to Job and to the angels, a prefigure of Christ, mediating.

 

[tttallison]

This is a really interesting idea. Never looked at it that way

The book is not about Satan it is about Job. God asked Job if he was going to make a covenant with Satan, and take him for a servant forever.

If condemning God, so that you might be righteous, is not a horrible sin, then God would have to apologize to Satan.

Job failed the second test when he did not bless God.

 

[posthuman]

God asked Job if he was going to make a covenant with Satan, and take him for a servant forever.

chapter and verse, please?

Job failed the second test when he did not bless God.

Naked came I out of my mother’s womb,​

and naked shall I return thither:​

the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away;​

blessed be the name of the Lord.
(Job 1:21)​

 

[posthuman]

Job failed the second test when he did not bless God.

personally, i think you need to re-read this book...

Then Job answered the Lord, and said,​

I know that Thou canst do every thing,​

and that no thought can be withholden from Thee.​

Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge?​

therefore have I uttered that I understood not;​

things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.​

Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak:​

I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto Me.​

I have heard of Thee by the hearing of the ear:​

but now mine eye seeth Thee.​

Wherefore I abhor myself,​

and repent in dust and ashes.​

And it was so, that after the Lord had spoken these words unto Job, the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite, ​

My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of Me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath. Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and My servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of Me the thing which is right, like My servant Job. ​

So Eliphaz the Temanite and Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite went, and did according as the Lord commanded them: the Lord also accepted Job.​

(Job 42:1-9)​

​

Job indeed blessed God,
God indeed accepted Job,
God indeed rebuked Job's friends, saying they had not spoken rightly about Him - those friends who had accused Job of sin, and said, only the wicked receive material affliction on earth, that God was punishing Job for unconfessed sin.

the first two chapters of the book make it super-clear that it is Satan who is attacking Job, not God attacking Job, and not because of Job's sin - he is blameless - but because of a controversy between God and Satan, that is playing out in the court of heaven, in the sight of all the angels, for which God allows Satan to afflict Job in order to prove to him and to demonstrate to all the angels that Job's righteousness and respect for God is not tied to material wealth and prosperity.

 

[posthuman]

@tttallison

do you believe the health/wealth/prosperity gospel?
is that why you are resisting this?

are you a Crefo-$$$-ite?

 

[posthuman]

Would God shoot arrows into Job if it was not for sin?

please compare the words of Eliphaz, speaking falsely to Job, wrongly accusing him without knowledge:

Job 22:4-5​

Is it because of your fear of Him that He corrects you, And enters into judgment with you? [Is] not your wickedness great, And your iniquity without end?​

 

[NOV25]

the context in which it opens, that frames the whole story, is all of the angels presenting themselves before the LORD on His throne. it's there, with all the angels present, that God makes Satan confess he has been on earth, roaming it, and calls his attention to Job, saying he is blameless and upright.

this isn't taking place with human witnesses - no where in the book does Job learn of these events. this is all happening for anger ls to witness, and they watch what Satan does, and what Job does, and his friends, and Elihu.

so i see this as something primarily for the angels - God only replies to Job essentially, 'Who are you to question me?' and does not deign to explain the events. Job, being righteous, answers in agreement, he humbles himself and confesses he has spoken about things too wonderful for him.

but the angels hear Satan making this bet boasting against God, over whether Job only respects God because he has been materially blessed - effectively that God's praise is 'bought' unfairly through bribery, as it were. to the angels this is a lesson in righteousness and humility before God, a tacit rebuke of Satans rebellion and refusal to repent even when he has been humbled, cast out of heaven and relegated to the earth. Job is a witness to them, Elihu a witness both to Job and to the angels, a prefigure of Christ, mediating.

So the book of Job is about God‘s desire to prove something to the angels at Job and his families expense, then God gets mad at Job for questioning him?

 

[posthuman]

So the book of Job is about God‘s desire to prove something to the angels at Job and his families expense, then God gets mad at Job for questioning him?

do you see God stepping down to speak directly to Job, approving him in front of his accusers, then blessing him sevenfold, as evidence that He is mad at Job?

 

[posthuman]

So the book of Job is about God‘s desire to prove something to the angels at Job and his families expense, then God gets mad at Job for questioning him?

the book is about a lot of things, primarily Christ.

but it's a mistake to ignore the first two chapters that open the account and give an explanation of the way the events came to take place: what happened to Job is directly related to the dialogue between the LORD and Satan which took place not in the view or hearing of men, but of the angels.

remember, Job never got an explanation for what had happened to him, in the narrative. we have more insight because of chapters 1-2 than Job, Elihu or any of the friends of Job did - insight that the angels who watched all this take place also have, because they witnessed Satan speaking back to God, at the beginning of these events.

 

[tttallison]

chapter and verse, please?

In chapter 40 we have the beast and in chapter 41 we have the dragon. Part of the Trinity of Satan.

Isa 27:1 In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? Is this Satan?

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Is this Satan?

Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. The trinity of Satan. Satan is the great imitator.

Remember when Satan came in the mist of the Sons of God, and God and beheld the high things of God?

Job 41:34 He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.

Naked came I out of my mother’s womb,​

and naked shall I return thither:​

the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away;​

blessed be the name of the Lord.​

(Job 1:21)​

​

That is the problem. Job did not bless God after the second test. God had nothing to say about Job after the second test. The first time God speaks to Job was to condemn Job for lacking knowledge. Then God charged Job with striving with him, then instructing God, and reproving God. Disannulling God's judgement, and also condemning God so that Job could claim to be righteous.


Isa 45:9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?

 

[NOV25]

do you see God stepping down to speak directly to Job, approving him in front of his accusers, then blessing him sevenfold, as evidence that He is mad at Job?

“so i see this as something primarily for the angels - God only replies to Job essentially, 'Who are you to question me?”

Your words buddy 👆

“God never answered Job’s questions…”

👆classic commentary regurgitate. God answered every accusation/question Job had at the first utterance from the whirlwind-same as he does for all those he reveals himself to.

Prior to this Job was no more [tâm] than the Holy Spirit stated Paul was in Philippians-prior to the Damascus Road experience…

Put down the commentary, read scripture and think.

 

[posthuman]

“so i see this as something primarily for the angels - God only replies to Job essentially, 'Who are you to question me?”

Your words buddy 👆

“God never answered Job’s questions…”

👆classic commentary regurgitate. God answered every accusation/question Job had at the first utterance from the whirlwind-same as he does for all those he reveals himself to.

Prior to this Job was no more [tâm] than the Holy Spirit stated Paul was in Philippians-prior to the Damascus Road experience…

Put down the commentary, read scripture and think.

i have actually never read a single commentary on Job. but if you are saying that many who have gone before me reach the same conclusions, that is not a bad outcome.
it's when you think you see something no one else has ever seen in the Bible, that you need to step back.

Job 7:20​

Have I sinned? What have I done to You, O watcher of men? Why have You set me as Your target, So that I am a burden to myself? ​

where is this question answered?

 

[posthuman]

Job 7:20
Have I sinned? What have I done to You, O watcher of men? Why have You set me as Your target, So that I am a burden to myself?

where is this question answered?

in Job 1:8-12 and 2:4-7

 

[posthuman]

“so i see this as something primarily for the angels - God only replies to Job essentially, 'Who are you to question me?”

Your words buddy 👆

1 Peter 1:10-12​

Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace [that would come] to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. ​

To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things which angels desire to look into.​

​

does someone blameless and upright, whom there is no one else like on earth, whom Satan personally sought to destroy but could not, who suffered many things for righteousness sake, whose prayers save those he calls friends, who afterwards was highly exalted more than before because of his faithfulness in humility, remind you of anyone?

​

 

[tttallison]

​

does someone blameless and upright, whom there is no one else like on earth, whom Satan personally sought to destroy but could not, who suffered many things for righteousness sake, whose prayers save those he calls friends, who afterwards was highly exalted more than before because of his faithfulness in humility, remind you of anyone?

​

Blameless and upright----until iniquity was found in him, which occurred after the second test.

Whom there is no one else like on earth,----yes but Israel was the apple of God's eye and called Jeshurun (upright).

Whom Satan personally sought to destroy but could not.----Job was on a path of self-destruction.

Who suffered many things----due to pride.

Whose prayers did what?----Job's prayers couldn't even save his own children.

Who was highly exalted.----Thanks to his repentance when he admitted he was vile and abhorred himself.

Remind you of anyone. Yes, each and every person who repents, and is born again.

 

[posthuman]

Blameless and upright----until iniquity was found in him, which occurred after the second test.

Job never stopped praising God.

Job 28:23-28​

God understands its way, And He knows its place. ​

For He looks to the ends of the earth, [And] sees under the whole heavens, To establish a weight for the wind, And apportion the waters by measure. ​

When He made a law for the rain, And a path for the thunderbolt, Then He saw [wisdom] and declared it; He prepared it, indeed, He searched it out. ​

And to man He said, ​

'Behold, the fear of the Lord, that [is] wisdom, And to depart from evil [is] understanding.'​

 

[posthuman]

Who suffered many things----due to pride.

is it that you genuinely are completely unfamiliar with the text, or do you just not believe what you read?

 

[posthuman]

In chapter 40 we have the beast and in chapter 41 we have the dragon. Part of the Trinity of Satan.

Job 40 is about the antichrist and 41 is about Satan??



ich stimme dir nicht zu.

 

[posthuman]

in chapter 41 we have the dragon.

this is not an accusation Job is making deals with the devil. there is zero indication of that.

it is a biting sarcasm describing the impossibility that Job can treat this powerful creature like a pet or harness him like an ox, or catch and eat him for dinner like a rabbit or a trout.
therefore since these great things God has made, and Job is so much weaker then them, who does he think he is?

Job 41:2-7​

Can you put a reed through his nose, Or pierce his jaw with a hook? Will he make many supplications to you? Will he speak softly to you? Will he make a covenant with you? Will you take him as a servant forever? Will you play with him as [with] a bird, Or will you leash him for your maidens? Will [your] companions make a banquet of him? Will they apportion him among the merchants? Can you fill his skin with harpoons, Or his head with fishing spears?​

 

[tttallison]

this is not an accusation Job is making deals with the devil. there is zero indication of that.

it is a biting sarcasm describing the impossibility that Job can treat this powerful creature like a pet or harness him like an ox, or catch and eat him for dinner like a rabbit or a trout.
therefore since these great things God has made, and Job is so much weaker then them, who does he think he is?

Job 41:2-7​

Can you put a reed through his nose, Or pierce his jaw with a hook? Will he make many supplications to you? Will he speak softly to you? Will he make a covenant with you? Will you take him as a servant forever? Will you play with him as [with] a bird, Or will you leash him for your maidens? Will [your] companions make a banquet of him? Will they apportion him among the merchants? Can you fill his skin with harpoons, Or his head with fishing spears?​

How many kings do you know that behold all High things and are over all the children of pride.