Why is CCM having music labels change artists songs?

[Vcabaniss]

I have seen too many of known artist without their original work being accepted. I wonder why.

 

[Subhumanoidal]

I have seen too many of known artist without their original work being accepted. I wonder why.

CCM is just a broad, somewhat generic genre. So I'm not sure how that's changing anything?

And can you be more detailed as to what you're asking? I'm not understanding your question at all. What constitutes "original work"? How is it not being accepted?

 

[Vcabaniss]

CCM is just a broad, somewhat generic genre. So I'm not sure how that's changing anything?

And can you be more detailed as to what you're asking? I'm not understanding your question at all. What constitutes "original work"? How is it not being accepted?

I have some friends in the CCM world that the music label has taken the original music and changed the songs completely. At times, Jesus could be mentioned only so many times or more than enough. Meaning they took Christ and used Him for the dollar bill verses Christ that died for us. There are music labels that want albums recorded without the original musicians on the album even. I know there are a few labels that will not touch the music, yet CCM and GMA have taken Christian music only for money.

 

[Subhumanoidal]

I have some friends in the CCM world that the music label has taken the original music and changed the songs completely. At times, Jesus could be mentioned only so many times or more than enough. Meaning they took Christ and used Him for the dollar bill verses Christ that died for us. There are music labels that want albums recorded without the original musicians on the album even. I know there are a few labels that will not touch the music, yet CCM and GMA have taken Christian music only for money.

Nothing new or surprising. Record labels are a business. Businesses are about making money. Most CCM labels have secular parent labels. Thus the CCM labels are ran by secular companies with secular practices.

Personally I've never been a fan of CCM. I find the music trite, boring and uninspired, regardless of on a label or not. So I'm pretty unphased by what goes on in it.

 

[Icedaisey]

CCM?

 

[JohnDB]

CCM?

Contemporary Christian Music...

Nothing new or surprising. Record labels are a business. Businesses are about making money. Most CCM labels have secular parent labels. Thus the CCM labels are ran by secular companies with secular practices.

Personally I've never been a fan of CCM. I find the music trite, boring and uninspired, regardless of on a label or not. So I'm pretty unphased by what goes on in it.

Yeah there's a specific formula they follow with verses, bridge and chorus... really boring.

And then they can put a song through an algorithm and immediately know whether it will sell or not. If it exists inside of the parameters... otherwise it will be adjusted to fit inside.

Music doesn't have the profit like it used to and CCM is the lowest paying genre of them all.

 

[Vcabaniss]

Sadly, exactly right. CCM is following rock formulas to sell, not to have real passion to music about Christ. I know the groups are genuine that I know personally, but it is still sad their music is not really their own.

 

[JohnDB]

Sadly, exactly right. CCM is following rock formulas to sell, not to have real passion to music about Christ. I know the groups are genuine that I know personally, but it is still sad their music is not really their own.

Contemporary secular music is better in a lot of ways needing and displaying a much more intricate creative and complicated talent than CCM.
Then on top of this...
Most normal people can't take the stress and isolation of being a performer.... even Christians crack regularly into some sort of vice. Which then becomes whispered before it blows up and becomes headlines and destroys their career. There's a written and unwritten morality clause with every CCM artist.

Also...
Because CCM is so low paying... quality talent is overworked way past the point of abuse and extremely underpaid and underappreciated...that goes for roadies to managers...and of course artists.

I live in Nashville TN....the home of most of the Music you hear. On top of this my church is somewhat "plugged in" to the music industry from musicians to songwriters and singers and of course promoters, managers and all the rest.

I'm not a music person... totally devoid of music welling up out of me. They all look at me as if I'm a lab experiment gone wrong... because I do understand the mechanics of it but a major vx a minor is lost to me.

I have my talents...music simply isn't one of them.

 

[Vcabaniss]

I know an artist that was in one of the recent grammy bands etc. However you want to call them. Basically, he admitted when he first joined the group, he was completely humbled to be a part of such a talented group. They traveled all over the world. He told us about a story when they played in Korea. Now, they actually played in North Korea to top it off. They were invited to play at a festival they have in North Korea and all they could do was play their music and sing. They were not allowed to witness or talk to the crowd before or after the show. The fact that they can state they played a Christian music in North Korea was one of the most humbling experiences he stated he had while being in this band.
He never made a ton of money like you stated as well John. The one's in the group that made anything money wise would be the front lead singer and composers of the music they produced. This group never recorded with their own band in the more recent years and it frustrated a couple of the members because it was no longer really authentic. It was the way it needed to be according to the lead singer and the label. I remember we were told on the last album that came out though, the band actually played their music which really put a big burden in one's heart.
When they left the group after 12 years, he told us he has another calling and he does not really want to be in the band anymore. That even being in the band and as humble as he generally is, he could see how the fame was getting to him even during some of the shows. It was a lot on his family as well. It was no longer really genuine music too which is really his passion.
Another friend of mine that is in Nashville with her husband that lived in Central Florida for the longest time is recording music again on a whole new level. She is now signed with a label that cannot change or touch the music they write. She even told me that so many times there were songs they have written that were tossed out stating oh that will never sell so it will not be on the album. It broke her heart.

 

[Magenta]

@JohnDB & @Vcabaniss your stories remind me of an artist whose music I first became acquainted with a number of years ago, when I had a TV but no cable, and so would listen to modern praise and worship on one of the many music stations made available for which cable was not required. I found out that he had gone through American Idol and placed in the top ten for his year, which gave him an "in" into the industry, which he eventually left because of how he saw how it was adversely affecting his heart. His name is Chris Sligh and he really is quite gifted

This first video/song is his story of that experience...

This is the first song of his I heard on the TV radio station, Galaxy, The Light:

Here is his American Idol audition

 

[JohnDB]

I know an artist that was in one of the recent grammy bands etc. However you want to call them. Basically, he admitted when he first joined the group, he was completely humbled to be a part of such a talented group. They traveled all over the world. He told us about a story when they played in Korea. Now, they actually played in North Korea to top it off. They were invited to play at a festival they have in North Korea and all they could do was play their music and sing. They were not allowed to witness or talk to the crowd before or after the show. The fact that they can state they played a Christian music in North Korea was one of the most humbling experiences he stated he had while being in this band.
He never made a ton of money like you stated as well John. The one's in the group that made anything money wise would be the front lead singer and composers of the music they produced. This group never recorded with their own band in the more recent years and it frustrated a couple of the members because it was no longer really authentic. It was the way it needed to be according to the lead singer and the label. I remember we were told on the last album that came out though, the band actually played their music which really put a big burden in one's heart.
When they left the group after 12 years, he told us he has another calling and he does not really want to be in the band anymore. That even being in the band and as humble as he generally is, he could see how the fame was getting to him even during some of the shows. It was a lot on his family as well. It was no longer really genuine music too which is really his passion.
Another friend of mine that is in Nashville with her husband that lived in Central Florida for the longest time is recording music again on a whole new level. She is now signed with a label that cannot change or touch the music they write. She even told me that so many times there were songs they have written that were tossed out stating oh that will never sell so it will not be on the album. It broke her heart.

Singing and writing music is a very emotional based talent...of course there are mechanics and discipline needed as well to be good at it.

What I personally see is that writers and singers get locked into "moods" for a period of time. And where an album needs a theme traditionally it can't be all contemplative or sad...it needs a blend of upbeat/celebrating, encouraging, and sad stuff together.
All of course in your unique style.

From full orchestra rich Skillet to Toby Mac or Mike's Chair or Need to Breath of Thousand Foot Crutch.

All these groups have a blend of all the genre of music on their albums...but only a few songs get to be released as singles. (The marker of success for a song)

Everyone wants to sell singles...but singles only pay the bills if re-released from the album. And if the whole album won't sell...the single usually won't either.

That's why the soul crushing discards and edits.

Also very often musicians aren't exactly the most theologically astute. If a particular song is promoting a particular theologically minor principle it will be automatically sent to the junk pile... even if it is a great song.... because it will pigeon hole the group and alienate massive amounts of potential music purchasers in a very low paying field of music.

I know that it isn't exactly right...but the economics are fairly sound... again musicians aren't usually astute businessmen either.

There's a lot of career choices that aren't so soul crushing that a person can put their feelings and heart into...but the public at large is usually the real problem. They are judgemental and unforgiving moreso than not... even though by definition they shouldn't be.

 

[Vcabaniss]

@JohnDB & @Vcabaniss your stories remind me of an artist whose music I first became acquainted with a number of years ago, when I had a TV but no cable, and so would listen to modern praise and worship on one of the many music stations made available for which cable was not required. I found out that he had gone through American Idol and placed in the top ten for his year, which gave him an "in" into the industry, which he eventually left because of how he saw how it was adversely affecting his heart. His name is Chris Sligh and he really is quite gifted

This first video/song is his story of that experience...

This is the first song of his I heard on the TV radio station, Galaxy, The Light:

Here is his American Idol audition

I remember this one. Good artist! It is sad when the industry tears them up and pushes them to be a business only.

 

[Vcabaniss]

Singing and writing music is a very emotional based talent...of course there are mechanics and discipline needed as well to be good at it.

What I personally see is that writers and singers get locked into "moods" for a period of time. And where an album needs a theme traditionally it can't be all contemplative or sad...it needs a blend of upbeat/celebrating, encouraging, and sad stuff together.
All of course in your unique style.

From full orchestra rich Skillet to Toby Mac or Mike's Chair or Need to Breath of Thousand Foot Crutch.

All these groups have a blend of all the genre of music on their albums...but only a few songs get to be released as singles. (The marker of success for a song)

Everyone wants to sell singles...but singles only pay the bills if re-released from the album. And if the whole album won't sell...the single usually won't either.

That's why the soul crushing discards and edits.

Also very often musicians aren't exactly the most theologically astute. If a particular song is promoting a particular theologically minor principle it will be automatically sent to the junk pile... even if it is a great song.... because it will pigeon hole the group and alienate massive amounts of potential music purchasers in a very low paying field of music.

I know that it isn't exactly right...but the economics are fairly sound... again musicians aren't usually astute businessmen either.

There's a lot of career choices that aren't so soul crushing that a person can put their feelings and heart into...but the public at large is usually the real problem. They are judgemental and unforgiving moreso than not... even though by definition they shouldn't be.

When it came down to one group that was signed to a major label in the beginning, Fireflight, they ended in a indie stage for a while when they ended up writing some of their best music. Dawn was able to pursue her dream and make a solo album which you know is not easy when you do not have a ton of support from a music label. She pushed and prayed to make this album and Tim Timmons helped her with this dream. She truly has a passion for writing and her heart is genuine. I know this because she is a personal friend that I love dearly!
I Surrender All - YouTube

This is the song that she pushed to come out first. She did not have a label or producers messing with her at all to clean it up or anything.
Pic is at her first baby shower for Johnny

 

[JohnDB]

I remember this one. Good artist! It is sad when the industry tears them up and pushes them to be a business only.

I guess that my point is that performing is a distinct and separate career from being an artist.

Most confuse the two skills together. Mostly because many artists are often cobbled into becoming performers.

Here in Nashville we have a ton of both...and several tons of barely marginal artists who aspire to be performers...and are completely delusional about it.

 

[JohnDB]

When it came down to one group that was signed to a major label in the beginning, Fireflight, they ended in a indie stage for a while when they ended up writing some of their best music. Dawn was able to pursue her dream and make a solo album which you know is not easy when you do not have a ton of support from a music label. She pushed and prayed to make this album and Tim Timmons helped her with this dream. She truly has a passion for writing and her heart is genuine. I know this because she is a personal friend that I love dearly!
I Surrender All - YouTube

This is the song that she pushed to come out first. She did not have a label or producers messing with her at all to clean it up or anything.
Pic is at her first baby shower for Johnny

Fireflight used to open for Casting Crowns....
I went to see Casting Crowns in concert and was absolutely enthralled with Fireflight's performance and absolutely disgusted by Casting Crown's performance...the headliners should have been swapped.

 

[Magenta]

... musicians aren't usually astute businessmen either...

That's why they need a good agent/manager/producer Have you seen the story of how I Can Only Imagine (<= link ) came to be? It is available on Netflix, where I also watched the stories/documentaries on Clive Davis (Clive Davis: The Soundtrack of Our Lives) and David Geffen (Inventing David Geffen) (those titles are also links to imdb's descriptions), both of which I found quite informative and very interesting looks back at the movers and shakers who had such an influential hand in shaping both artists and the industry

 

[JohnDB]

That's why they need a good agent/manager/producer Have you seen the story of how I Can Only Imagine (<= link ) came to be? It is available on Netflix, where I also watched the stories/documentaries on Clive Davis (Clive Davis: The Soundtrack of Our Lives) and David Geffen (Inventing David Geffen) (those titles are also links to imdb's descriptions), both of which I found quite informative and very interesting looks back at the movers and shakers who had such an influential hand in shaping both artists and the industry

I seen it advertised... haven't actually watched it yet.

But might once I get through with the predator franchise...
Hey, I'm a guy...I love that sort of thing too.

 

[Magenta]

I seen it advertised... haven't actually watched it yet.

But might once I get through with the predator franchise...
Hey, I'm a guy...I love that sort of thing too.

Heh, I do not even know what the predator franchise is

Some type of game, I imagine?

I do play digital games: Solitaire and word scramble type games on my phone (now that I have a phone that allows such things, which my daughter bought for me over a year ago ). I am also doing a Bible quiz on my phone, and I notice that some of the things I have dabbled in where English is necessary, that the language skills of whoever designed/developed the game are very much below par. When I first got a computer in 2000, my daughter helped me learn keyboard shortcuts and how to navigate the www. She also signed me up to a gaming site that she was a member of, which was eventually bought by Viacom, who introduced the money element into it. Before then you played games (there were quite a few!) to earn points which in turn could be used to buy the virtual items generated on the site, some of which were very costly (virtually and time-wise too LOL). It does seem that digital has very much changed many industries, and the music business did not escape unscathed. Of course it was always a battle between the industry execs and the artists, many of whom did not even own their own work. The field I worked in was also impacted in a major way by digital: we used to have close to sixty employees, but after digital came on the scene, it was whittled down to a dozen over a few proceeding years, and now there are even less.

 

[JohnDB]

Heh, I do not even know what the predator franchise is

Some type of game, I imagine?

I do play digital games: Solitaire and word scramble type games on my phone (now that I have a phone that allows such things, which my daughter bought for me over a year ago ). I am also doing a Bible quiz on my phone, and I notice that some of the things I have dabbled in where English is necessary, that the language skills of whoever designed/developed the game are very much below par. When I first got a computer in 2000, my daughter helped me learn keyboard shortcuts and how to navigate the www. She also signed me up to a gaming site that she was a member of, which was eventually bought by Viacom, who introduced the money element into it. Before then you played games (there were quite a few!) to earn points which in turn could be used to buy the virtual items generated on the site, some of which were very costly (virtually and time-wise too LOL). It does seem that digital has very much changed many industries, and the music business did not escape unscathed. Of course it was always a battle between the industry execs and the artists, many of whom did not even own their own work. The field I worked in was also impacted in a major way by digital: we used to have close to sixty employees, but after digital came on the scene, it was whittled down to a dozen over a few proceeding years, and now there are even less.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predator_(franchise)

 

[Magenta]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predator_(franchise)

I laugh because... well, I don't think I am really interested in those types of games, which is probably a good thing