Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

[eternally-gratefull]

Your just making false assumptions.

You have been doing that since you got here now your blame shifting

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I doesnt really bother me if you call me a slander. I am here to please God, not you

If you were here to please god you would obey his command and stop bearing false witness. Or at the very least admit you thought wrong and confess

Your words accuse you. Not me

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I don't earn my salvation. I trust in Jesus Christ to help me get Salvation.

Jesus IS salvation.


3444 [e]
yə·šū·‘āh;
יְשׁוּעָ֑ה
Salvation [is]
N‑fs


"I AM the way..." (Jesus said).


____________

1 John 5 -

9 If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater. For this is the testimony of God that He has testified concerning His Son. 10 The one believing in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one not believing God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning His Son.

11 And this is the testimony: that God has given to us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 The one having the Son has life; the one not having the Son of God does not have life.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

By the way its best you drop this conversation now. Thank you goodnight

Oh are you threatening me now?

Should I copy all the lies you have said and report them to the leaders of this site?

I have no fear. I have done no wrong my friend

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Think fellow NOSAS people need to help her (nat2019) out, She is hurting their cause.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

If i'm saved, i'm i supposed to quit prostitution? i'm i supposed to quit slandering and cheating? i'm i supposed to put an effort to be faithful to my wife and stop adultery? or is the Lord going to do all that for me or maybe now it doesn't matter because i'm already saved and even if i do all these, grace abides.

Suppose to?Paul wrote that by the mercies of GOD to present your body a Living Sacrifice but he Is talking about since GOD had mercy and sent HIS to die on the cross and ALL who's spirits were made perfect Will seek to purify themselves even as they are pure.

 

[Noose]

Suppose to?Paul wrote that by the mercies of GOD to present your body a Living Sacrifice but he Is talking about since GOD had mercy and sent HIS to die on the cross and ALL who's spirits were made perfect Will seek to purify themselves even as they are pure.

You mean we can continue sinning because of God's mercy?

 

[seed_time_harvest]

You mean we can continue sinning because of God's mercy?

I don't want to put emphasis on sin In this scenario because those who have this hope won't have a desire to sin but will seek to purify their bodies/minds to match the new creation they have become but sin Is not the Issue anymore but Faith Is the Issue now that JESUS brought Grace and truth ushering In the new covenant.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

You mean they were just like you?

Hypocrites who think they are righteous when they are not? Always bearing false witness against others, and never confessing their sin, while judging others?

Got to say this is something. So an individual is a pharisee. They call themselves righteous, bear false witness,
never confess sin and judge others.

Here are 4 accusations.
1. Claim righteousness
2. Lie about others
3. Never admit sin
4. Judge others

This is quite a claim and accusation.
If the accuser here is constantly accusing others of things that are interpretive, they are the bearer of false
witnessing, in this case in particular. As this individual does this constantly, and yet does not admit this
sin, is guilty of not admitting sin. By coming with this list of accusations, and calling some a pharisee, in the
most derogatory way possible, is being judgemental.

Does the accuser claim to be able to judge from righteousness? My case would be how else could they
judge or else they are the sinner trying to judge others while under condemnation themselves.
Whichever way it goes, they sink their own boat so full of holes, it goes down without trace, lol.

 

[OneOfHis]

If i'm saved, i'm i supposed to quit prostitution? i'm i supposed to quit slandering and cheating? i'm i supposed to put an effort to be faithful to my wife and stop adultery? or is the Lord going to do all that for me or maybe now it doesn't matter because i'm already saved and even if i do all these, grace abides.

If there is a fornicating cheating unbeliever who becomes born again, those things you took pleasure in would now hurt you. You couldn't find peace or pleasure in those things and the Holy spirit would give you a new heart which desires to experience the righteousness of Christ.

Your progress will not save you but is a product of God working in you.

To have no chastening nor fruit would suggest God has not made you new or started in you.

To now be convicted of what you used to take pleasure in is not a work of yourself but first fruits of Gods works in you.

You would start as a sappling, then grow into tree with more fruit and more useful to Him who loved you first.

(all while reaping what you sow and enduring His just and perfect chastening)

You mean we can continue sinning because of God's mercy?

You continue sinning often as it is, and only by God's mercy can you be born again. Made a son, and saved.



Example 1 :
A drunk and spiteful man hears the gospel (good news of the free gift) and sees "now I can drink and fight all I want im safe"
and sins as much as possible and takes joy in his new excuse

Example 2 :
A drunk and spiteful man hears the gospel (good news of the free gift) and sees "I am a sinner... how I live my life is awful.... God please help me I am sorry and wish to conform to your will"
and quits drinking 100% and holds no grudges what so ever

Example 3:
A drunk spiteful man hears the gospel (good news of the free gift) and sees "I am a sinner... how I live my life is awful.... God please help me"

and still drinks from time to time... and when he fails (where as before being made new drinking was not a failure to him) it convicts him and he wishes to improve.... has a temper but sees it as wrong and refrains from violence and tries to pray for patience and is quick to say sorry


example two and three no longer PRACTICE sin and have some fruit


but one... does not seem to be born again (made new)

and walks on willful sin with no chastening which is no better or worse than a self righteous person who places salvation on their own shoulders (also with no chastening for their sins which they are sometimes blind to)


example two is no more saved than example three... just more fruitful

praise God

also I wouldn't be surprised if number two faced many hardships number one was protected from in his slower walk

 

[Noose]

I don't want to put emphasis on sin In this scenario because those who have this hope won't have a desire to sin but will seek to purify their bodies/minds to match the new creation they have become but sin Is not the Issue anymore but Faith Is the Issue now that JESUS brought Grace and truth ushering In the new covenant.

Did David the servant of God also have this hope but still planned for months to kill a man and have the man's wife?
Was that David's choice or was God doing it in him?

 

[FollowHisSteps]

I dont care. I am (not) under the old Law. So I dont know why you give me these scriptures.

He is addicted to bashing others with a hammer of scriptures that he thinks make sense.
You feed his hamster wheel and it will never stop because he believes a sinner in Christ is
saved, and a worker of righteousness is a self justified hypocrite.

The rabbit hole is active faith is not possible, and sinners can never be cleansed. Once you
remove this from scripture he thinks if he bashes people enough, their sin will show and they
will admit a righteous walk of love is just impossible.

He is diligent though it is pointless, but if he stopped it would mean he is wrong. Oppss

 

[Noose]

If there is a fornicating cheating unbeliever who becomes born again, those things you took pleasure in would now hurt you. You couldn't find peace or pleasure in those things and the Holy spirit would give you a new heart which desires to experience the righteousness of Christ.

Your progress will not save you but is a product of God working in you.

To have no chastening nor fruit would suggest God has not made you new or started in you.

To now be convicted of what you used to take pleasure in is not a work of yourself but first fruits of Gods works in you.

You would start as a sappling, then grow into tree with more fruit and more useful to Him who loved you first.

(all while reaping what you sow and enduring His just and perfect chastening)




You continue sinning often as it is, and only by God's mercy can you be born again. Made a son, and saved.



Example 1 :
A drunk and spiteful man hears the gospel (good news of the free gift) and sees "now I can drink and fight all I want im safe"
and sins as much as possible and takes joy in his new excuse

Example 2 :
A drunk and spiteful man hears the gospel (good news of the free gift) and sees "I am a sinner... how I live my life is awful.... God please help me I am sorry and wish to conform to your will"
and quits drinking 100% and holds no grudges what so ever

Example 3:
A drunk spiteful man hears the gospel (good news of the free gift) and sees "I am a sinner... how I live my life is awful.... God please help me"

and still drinks from time to time... and when he fails (where as before being made new drinking was not a failure to him) it convicts him and he wishes to improve.... has a temper but sees it as wrong and refrains from violence and tries to pray for patience and is quick to say sorry


example two and three no longer PRACTICE sin and have some fruit


but one... does not seem to be born again (made new)

and walks on willful sin with no chastening which is no better or worse than a self righteous person who places salvation on their own shoulders (also with no chastening for their sins which they are sometimes blind to)


example two is no more saved than example three... just more fruitful

praise God

also I wouldn't be surprised if number two faced many hardships number one was protected from in his slower walk

Quitting something (behavior) is a work.
Your assurance and hope for salvation can not make you quit anything, it is your effort.

Jesus told the accused lady, "..go and sin no more". It was not Jesus going behind her back to help her quit her habits.

 

[UnderGrace]

Baptizing again and again, not repenting. See how that makes sense, and repentance doesn't?

Once again, I do understand that this is how you see it. I understand you wish to persuade me to see it that way. But for me, That is not the beginning or the end of truth, or of understanding, it is the truth. Some times we hear things and they make no sense. Then sometime down the road when least expected, your eyes are opened, and "here a little there a little" bits of knowledge that once made no sense, like a bridge of cards are shuffled into a perfect deck, opening for you more truth than you ever knew existed. Once that happens to you, you never approach another and their beliefs the same way again. It changes you forever. But short summary from my side, only done from the place of hopefully getting you to quit trying to make me see what you believe I am not seeing, not knowing I have seen that truth myself before. So only for explanation from my point of view, and until you deep study the original manuscripts and seek out the individual words for their meanings, please understand I already understand what you would say

God created the earth to be inhabited. Tohu. And it was. And that age was destroyed. And it became null and void. Tohu va bohu. Later, at the beginning of this age, God said let there be light, and after the re-creation we were cast unto the earth, individually to a life in the flesh etc.
One of the requirements for eternal life is to be born in the flesh, "born from above", as opposed to the angels who left their habitation and who are reserved unto death never having been, "and born of the womb (water) (the leaving of their habitation their will, as opposed to being born in the flesh (Gods Will) which was the cause of the flood of Noah (another attempt by Satan to pollute the bloodline through which Jesus would come). So you see, things you now may believe are impossible, like born from above again, or water again, may not be. They may just be on another level of understanding. No one ever can no the whole bible, therefore we all "believe" by whatever GRACE GOD gives us. Only when we humble ourselves to Gods Will, will we ourselves receive more. And if you don't repent, you can't be washed clean, so you can't talk to God, so you stay in the knowledge of that state not really able to move on. One of the many bummers of not repenting whenever needed. I know, makes no sense at all. I get that.

If I were Satan, the prince of the power of the air, and my main area was that "of deception", I would first be going after "those seeking the Word", I would not only be teaching "the law and the prophets were done away with"" you don't have to know that anymore, that was abolished, but you are not to let anyone believe that if you can help it". I would definitely be teaching "the Spirit will lead you" you don't need to know what is written in the word, I would also be teaching "rest, don't do works, Jesus did it perfect and everything He did covers you forever, no matter what" and I would be teaching "you don't need to repent and be washed clean, God hears you all the time" and I would be teaching "all you have to do is believe and get baptized and you can't sin after that, you are saved no matter what you do" I would want everyone thinking they could do anything and they were saved forever, JESUS did it all for them, just I love you, so you just love me. I know you don't believe all these things but all these things are believed. Some even believe they are going to be flown away before a judgment. Insane to me, but fly away theories still abound where bthey will be the only ones since creation who will never have to be judged for eternal life.

It is so much harder to change a persons mind, than it is to teach it. What do you think Satan is hoping to find when he arrives, that description above or

A bunch of people who study His laws and His prophets because the take seriously the commandments and words of Jesus, study the Word to show themselves approved, putting on the gospel armor getting ready to fight the good fight, realizing they are still sinners so repenting for their sins, washing themselves in the blood of Jesus, talking with God, always newly cleansed free from sin, believing not only they can do wrong but they will do wrong, so they constantly strive to be better, believe that faith without works is dead, so works are nothing but good so they are going out doing them (Not 4 the 5), believe Jesus showed them the way so that they could do their best to please God His way. they are going to stay through the tribulation and overcome. You know I don't believe all of these things but they are believed.

tell me what you think? How do you see it?


Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

We need to change our minds away from dead works towards Christ for salvation once.

Now if you want to change your mind about other things that is fine, I am only speaking about the point of salvation, when we are born from above.

As Paul states .. After starting in the Spirit, are you now finishing in the flesh?

Repentance for salvation is once.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

There are only two types of righteousness found in scripture

1. By the law - no one meets this standard
2. The righteousness of Christ being added to you.

There is no other standard.. Thats why paul said, for ALL (including you and me) have sinned and FALL SHORT.

The term sin (hamarte) literally means missed the mark..

And yep. You and I STILl to this day, miss that mark.

Job was righteous. Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Paul.
The righteous have always been by faith, walking in obedience.

Missing the mark is a term from target shooting with arrows.
You can both land short, long or to the sides.

Legalists are fascinated with goals and failure. They believe failure or
success is everything, rather than training, learning and skill is everything.
You will always fail until the day you succeed, but you never give up until
that day arrives or else you will never succeed.

This gospel they preach is we all fail so give up, Jesus hit all the marks so
we do not have to. It is just a pass or fail exam, He passed so we go free.

It sounds fair until you realise this is about us and how we walk everyday
in every situation in Jesus. All they have is passive faith and rest, which means
staying in sin, no repentance and total compromise.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We need to change our minds away from dead works towards Christ for salvation once.

Now if you want to change your mind about other things that is fine, I am only speak about the point of salvation, when we are born from above.

As Paul states .. After starting in the Spirit, are you now finishing in the flesh?

Repentance for salvation is once.

Amen

You already acknowledged yourself a sinner in need of Gods mercy and salvation.

Did you somehow repent again and now claim your not a sinner in need? So you have to repent yet again to acknowledge yoru a sinner in need of salvation again??

 

[FollowHisSteps]

We need to change our minds away from dead works towards Christ for salvation once.

Now if you want to change your mind about other things that is fine, I am only speaking about the point of salvation, when we are born from above.

As Paul states .. After starting in the Spirit, are you now finishing in the flesh?

Repentance for salvation is once.

"Repentance for salvation is once"

God help you in your walk if you think this is true. Repentance is a state of life, an attitude of the
heart and a consideration of the soul.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

You have been doing that since you got here now your blame shifting

Oh no. The term blame shifting has arisen. Do not understand what he means but he likes the term.
How does a corrupt judge judge when he cannot see straight or talk properly?
It all goes wrong, lol.

 

[OneOfHis]

Quitting something (behavior) is a work.
Your assurance and hope for salvation can not make you quit anything, it is your effort.

Jesus told the accused lady, "..go and sin no more". It was not Jesus going behind her back to help her quit her habits.

john 8
4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
(the legalists under the law call Jesus master though they do not know Him and tempt Him with this)


7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
(those accusers knew in their heart they are just as guilty of sin as this woman)



10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

(Jesus did not condemn her for He was her Lord, and gave proper chastening telling her to quit this sin she was caught in red handed)
______
This verse has nothing to do with maintaining salvation through works.



She was not saved through "quitting something" for the record.

She was saved by grace through faith.

 

[UnderGrace]

Amen

You already acknowledged yourself a sinner in need of Gods mercy and salvation.

Did you somehow repent again and now claim your not a sinner in need? So you have to repent yet again to acknowledge your a sinner in need of salvation again??

Exactly, their doctrine does not hold up from the Bible, logic or reason.