Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

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John 8:34
Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin.
 
Isaiah 59:15
Truth is lacking, and he who departs from evil makes himself a prey. The Lord saw it, and it displeased him that there was no justice.
 
Isaiah 57:20
But the wicked are like the tossing sea; for it cannot be quiet, and its waters toss up mire and dirt.
 
Revelation 14:12
Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.
 
John 3:20
For (everyone) who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.

IF WE DO WICKED THINGS WE HATE THE LIGHT

* notice the word everyone
 
Nat2019 said:
I dont "need" to answer anything you say.
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Then you are proven to be unqualified to use the scripture to back your belief, especially the scripture in question.

All you have done is proves you have NO IDEA what NO WORKS means. If you did, you would readily answer. Your silence is what rebukes you. No one else has to rebuke you, your own lack of words do.

Good day. I will go find someone who KNOWS God word to discuss the bible with. Not some person who thinks they know me, Think they knows the bible. Yet proves by his or her silence they have no comprehension of what the word says, Especially one of the PET passages.
 
notuptome said:
Hold your horses there partner. We are saved not will be saved. We are saved according to Gods mercy and it is a continuing action by the grace of God. Saved today, saved tomorrow and saved for eternity. Past, present and future sins all covered by the blood of Christ. Sealed unto the day of redemption.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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22 All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved
Matt 10

13 but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.
Matt 24

9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.
John 10

21 And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved
Acts 2

14 He will bring you a message through which you and all your household will be saved
Acts 11

9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10

15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.
1 Cor 3

This is a sign to them that they will be destroyed, but that you will be saved--and that by God.
Phil 1

Scripture has two ways of expressing salvation. The physical realisation of it with Jesus at the resurrection,
and the spiritual reality of it in the elect today on coming to faith.

The spiritual though is a statement of what will be, a hope, and until it actually occurs, that it will stay.
To deny this split is to deny scripture.
 
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Nat2019 said:
Fellow brothers and sisters if we Obey the Lord he will hear our prayers;).

Proverbs 15:29
The Lord is far from the wicked, but he hears the prayer of the righteous
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No one here is preaching against obedience. If you would open you eyes you would see this Nut your blindness has blinded you.
 
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Nat2019 said:
Revelation 14:12
Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.
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What makes you think you can endure? Israel always promised to keep the law but always failed. You think you can endure, really? Tell us how you plan to accomplish that which only Christ ever achieved.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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eternally-gratefull said:
Then you are proven to be unqualified to use the scripture to back your belief, especially the scripture in question.

All you have done is proves you have NO IDEA what NO WORKS means. If you did, you would readily answer. Your silence is what rebukes you. No one else has to rebuke you, your own lack of words do.

Good day. I will go find someone who KNOWS God word to discuss the bible with. Not some person who thinks they know me, Think they knows the bible. Yet proves by his or her silence they have no comprehension of what the word says, Especially one of the PET passages.
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I'd rather use scripture. But thanks have a discussion with someone else.
 
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eternally-gratefull said:
Then you are proven to be unqualified to use the scripture to back your belief, especially the scripture in question.

All you have done is proves you have NO IDEA what NO WORKS means. If you did, you would readily answer. Your silence is what rebukes you. No one else has to rebuke you, your own lack of words do.

Good day. I will go find someone who KNOWS God word to discuss the bible with. Not some person who thinks they know me, Think they knows the bible. Yet proves by his or her silence they have no comprehension of what the word says, Especially one of the PET passages.
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It proves you do not see the meaning of scripture of something very obvious.
If you want to declare some insight you have to declare it else it is just meaningless.

I have seen people call the works of believers as the only truly good things done.
Bit of a problem when unbelievers do things God calls good.
 
Noose said:
To summarize what you are now saying;

1. Faith alone doesn't save
2. Faith in Christ with corresponding works saves

I agree.
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1. An empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains alone - “barren of works” doesn’t save.
2. Faith that “trusts in Christ alone for salvation” saves and evidential works follow as the fruit, but not the root of salvation.

We must not put the cart before the horse.
 
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FollowHisSteps said:
22 All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved
Matt 10

13 but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.
Matt 24

9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.
John 10

21 And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved
Acts 2

14 He will bring you a message through which you and all your household will be saved
Acts 11

9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10

15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.
1 Cor 3

This is a sign to them that they will be destroyed, but that you will be saved--and that by God.
Phil 1

Scripture has two ways of expressing salvation. The physical realisation of it with Jesus at the resurrection,
and the spiritual reality of it in the elect today on coming to faith.

The spiritual though is a statement of what will be, a hope, and until it actually occurs, that it will stay.
To deny this split is to deny scripture.
Click to expand...
You fail to grasp the future nature of salvation couples with the sealing of the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption. God is not constrained by time like temporal man is constrained. Salvation is an event that is continuous into the future. Salvation is also a present possession witnessed to by the abiding presence of the Holy Spirit.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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Nat2019 said:
Titus 1:16
They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work.

If we are disobedient to God we DENY him. He also thinks we are DETESTABLE.
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This does nto answer the question.

I AM NOT PREACHING DISOBEDIENCE.

Once again

HOW MANY WORKS IS NO WORKS?

Can you not ADMIT that it means ZERO ZIP NADA. TOTALLY DEVOID OF WORKS. That james is saying in fact. If anyone in your church CLAIMS to have faith. Yet they have ZERO, ZIP NADA works. Then their faith is dead (non existent) thus they have NEVER BEEN SAVED,

And also admit, that according to this passage 1 work would deem a faith is real? (Since anythign other than zero would fir the requirment of a living faith)


And finally, that this passage does NOT prove salvation can be lost. It PROVES there are people going to our churches who turn the grace of God to licentiousness (see also jude) who have NEVER BEEN SAVED, they have a CLAIMED faith only!!

But no. That would hurt your own faith, your belief would be proven false. You would have to admit you are wrong.

Your fooling no one but yourself.. Good luck trying to earn your salvation.

 
Hi fellow believers, please dont worry about explaining Faith with OSAS believers, because you wont get anywhere:(.The conversation will go around and around in circles. And you could be doing something better with your time. :)
 
eternally-gratefull said:
This does nto answer the question.

I AM NOT PREACHING DISOBEDIENCE.

Once again

HOW MANY WORKS IS NO WORKS?

Can you not ADMIT that it means ZERO ZIP NADA. TOTALLY DEVOID OF WORKS. That james is saying in fact. If anyone in your church CLAIMS to have faith. Yet they have ZERO, ZIP NADA works. Then their faith is dead (non existent) thus they have NEVER BEEN SAVED,

And also admit, that according to this passage 1 work would deem a faith is real? (Since anythign other than zero would fir the requirment of a living faith)


And finally, that this passage does NOT prove salvation can be lost. It PROVES there are people going to our churches who turn the grace of God to licentiousness (see also jude) who have NEVER BEEN SAVED, they have a CLAIMED faith only!!

But no. That would hurt your own faith, your belief would be proven false. You would have to admit you are wrong.

Your fooling no one but yourself.. Good luck trying to earn your salvation.

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I thought you didnt want to talk to me anymore?
 
Isaiah 32:6
For the fool speaks folly, and his heart is busy with iniquity, to practice ungodliness, to utter error concerning the Lord, to leave the craving of the hungry unsatisfied, and to deprive the thirsty of drink.
 
Ephesians 5:11
Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.

Ezekiel 33:11
Say to them, As I live, declares the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live; turn back, turn back from your evil ways, for why will you die, O house of Israel
 
mailmandan said:
1. An empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains alone - “barren of works” doesn’t save.
2. Faith that “trusts in Christ alone for salvation” saves and evidential works follow as the fruit, but not the root of salvation.

We must not put the cart before the horse.
Click to expand...

Good. Wonderful progress from faith alone to Faith that trusts in Christ alone + evidential works.

At least it isn't faith alone but there's still an issue; those evidential works are not the fruit of faith but love.

James 2:14What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

Provision of someones needs is not as a result of the confidence, assurance and hope for salvation (faith) in us, it is the result of love for others. Basically when James talks about faith without evidential works is dead, he means faith without love is nothing. Same thing with what Paul is saying here:

1 Cor 13:.... and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

Conclusion is just the same thing i have been saying since the beginning:

Salvation is not by faith alone

I think we agree on this one.
 
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