Why I keep the Sabbath FYI.

[james57]

I think this verse perfectly describes where we're at....

"One person considers one day more sacred than another;" (Me, in regards to the the Sabbath over the rest of the week)

"another considers every day alike." (You)

"Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind" (I am, and I would imagine you are too.)

So I don't see how either of us are at odds with this verse.

But then you wrote the following to me in conversation. Would you say it perfectly aligns with Paul's words in Rom 14:5:

To some extent though, I would agree with the stance that says if you don't keep the Sabbath, you have disobeyed God. But here is the caveat I would give: Until God has made you aware that He wants you to keep the Sabbath, you are innocent if you don't keep it. A child can do something wrong, but until they have been given the instruction to not do something, they are innocent because they didn't know what the rule is; it becomes a teaching moment for them. But once you are made aware the standard, you are then responsible for your actions towards it.

I will say though, disobedience to a command (any command, New Testament or Old), whether knowingly or unknowingly does not affect your overall relationship with God, it just becomes a time where something was broken for a season and then becomes a teaching moment.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Why are you making demands of me when you refuse to acknowledge the Word of God as it was presented to you, and defend an obvious error? You disappoint.

Because I am not in the habit of just taking someone's word for anything.

Why do you see a question in a discussion/debate as a demand?

You keep making statements that I am adding to the Word of God and that you have clearly articulated the Word of God, lol, but the fact is...the question forces you to admit that the Word of God shows that animal sacrifice is the consistent provision in all Ages.

Except this one.

If you are not able to answer, okay, I understand completely.

But don't think that this equates to "presenting the Word of God," nor should you think that failure to answer is something Scripture supports either. Be ready to give an answer, right?


God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

But then you wrote the following to me in conversation. Would you say it perfectly aligns with Paul's words in Rom 14:5:

To some extent though, I would agree with the stance that says if you don't keep the Sabbath, you have disobeyed God. But here is the caveat I would give: Until God has made you aware that He wants you to keep the Sabbath, you are innocent if you don't keep it. A child can do something wrong, but until they have been given the instruction to not do something, they are innocent because they didn't know what the rule is; it becomes a teaching moment for them. But once you are made aware the standard, you are then responsible for your actions towards it.

I will say though, disobedience to a command (any command, New Testament or Old), whether knowingly or unknowingly does not affect your overall relationship with God, it just becomes a time where something was broken for a season and then becomes a teaching moment.

And that clearly shows that he is teaching that it is God's will that men keep the Sabbath, which does indeed violate the teaching of Paul.

Thanks for the quote.


God bless.

 

[Magenta]

2 Timothy 2:23
"Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels."

Titus 3:9
"But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless."

These instructions were given because there were folks who wanted to do otherwise.

So we should sit idly by while professing Christians promote falsehoods and claim it as God's Word? It just strikes me as exceedingly... strange that nobody is acknowledging that Scripture does not state that God told Adam and Eve to sacrifice a lamb to pay for their sin. What more can I say? Nothing, obviously.

 

[Magenta]

Because I am not in the habit of just taking someone's word for anything.

I gave you God's Word, and you have rejected it.

 

[KohenMatt]

You are at odds by teaching that the Sabbath has to be kept or one is sinning.

Do you do that?

"Has" to be kept? No.
"Should" be kept? Yes.
Sinning? If you've been made aware of an instruction by God, and you don't do it? Yes. But I personally don't go there in conversations.

Do you feel you are right and those who keep Sunday, and those who see every day as holy unto God are wrong?

I'm no better than anyone. Worship should be done every day of the week, and folks should get into church as much as possible to worship.

But Saturday is set-apart by God.

You say in your tag you keep the Law, well, do you offer up sacrifice of animals for remission of sins and atonement?

Pay a little more attention to my comments. You'll see that you don't need to keep asking this question.

In this post you imply that you have liberty to keep the Sabbath, and I agree with that. However, if you feel that keeping the Sabbath is something that must be done, then you find yourself at odds with clear teaching.
God bless.

Again, what do you mean by "must"? To what I end "must" someone do anything?

 

[P1LGR1M]

2 Timothy 2:23
"Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels."

Titus 3:9
"But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless."

These instructions were given because there were folks who wanted to do otherwise.

So was this:


1 Peter 2:15

King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:


It is never God's will that we have indifference to error.

Paul did quite a bit of well doing in disputing with men in regards to false doctrine and practice.




God bless.

 

[P1LGR1M]

I gave you God's Word, and you have rejected it.

You gave me your opinion, and still refuse to answer a very simple question.


God bless.

 

[Ahwatukee]

LOL. I don't know why they find it so hard to acknowledge what is very clearly explicitly written in the Word of God. Are they just being stubborn? Are they blind? How would you explain their inability to see what is plainly written?

To answer your question, it is because of the following prophecy:

"For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths."

The great number of teachers is the teachings of mankind through seminars, books, videos, websites and hearsay, which they adopt and then replace for the word of God. The above is exactly why we are we are seeing people who believe and teach that we are still under the works of the law, why we have those believing and teaching preterism and amillennialism, as well as all the other false teachings that are out there. People through their puffed up knowledge read the word of God and ignore the plain literal text and instead replace it with man made interpretations and spiritualism.

Satan and the powers of darkness, are very busy and successful.

 

[KohenMatt]

But then you wrote the following to me in conversation. Would you say it perfectly aligns with Paul's words in Rom 14:5:

To some extent though, I would agree with the stance that says if you don't keep the Sabbath, you have disobeyed God. But here is the caveat I would give: Until God has made you aware that He wants you to keep the Sabbath, you are innocent if you don't keep it. A child can do something wrong, but until they have been given the instruction to not do something, they are innocent because they didn't know what the rule is; it becomes a teaching moment for them. But once you are made aware the standard, you are then responsible for your actions towards it.

I will say though, disobedience to a command (any command, New Testament or Old), whether knowingly or unknowingly does not affect your overall relationship with God, it just becomes a time where something was broken for a season and then becomes a teaching moment.

It fits perfectly.

You're convinced in your mind until God makes you aware otherwise; until He lays that act of obedience on your heart.

 

[james57]

It fits perfectly.

You're convinced in your mind until God makes you aware otherwise; until He lays that act of obedience on your heart.

But you have already admitted, Paul is preaching it doesn't matter whether one person considers one day more sacred than another, or another considers every day alike. If it doesn't matter to Paul, the person commisioned as the chief explainer of the new covenant, why does it matter to you?

 

[Magenta]

You gave me your opinion, and still refuse to answer a very simple question.
God bless.

Show me where God asked Adam and Eve to sacrifice a lamb to pay for their sin, or accept that you are wrong and defending an error, when God's Word, which I gave and you have rejected, clearly states otherwise. You can't, because no such Scripture exists, yet you refuse to admit it! And you further falsely accuse me, and compound your error.

Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

 

[KohenMatt]

So we should sit idly by while professing Christians promote falsehoods and claim it as God's Word?

I engage in those conversations with people until it gets to the point of foolishness and pointless arguments. Then I bow out of the conversation and move along to more fruitful discussions with others.

It just strikes me as exceedingly... strange that nobody is acknowledging that Scripture does not state that God told Adam and Eve to sacrifice a lamb to pay for their sin. What more can I say? Nothing, obviously.

I agree with you completely. The Word does not say God told them to sacrifice a lamb. It is not physically written. To say otherwise is conjecture, no matter how convinced or reasonable the person might be.

 

[KohenMatt]

But you have already admitted, Paul is preaching it doesn't matter whether one person considers one day more sacred than another, or another considers every day alike. If it doesn't matter to Paul, the person commisioned as the chief explainer of the new covenant, why does it matter to you?

Because as long as people have questions about the Sabbath, I'm happy to explain why God has convinced me of it. Just as you have tried to explain that God hasn't convinced you about the Sabbath.

Why does it matter to you if you're still engaging in this conversation?

 

[Ahwatukee]

2 Timothy 2:23
"Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels."

Titus 3:9
"But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless."

These instructions were given because there were folks who wanted to do otherwise.

Yes, but these are not stupid and foolish arguments. As believers we are also supposed to do the following:

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

And also:

"Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them."

We're exposing!

 

[KohenMatt]

Yes, but these are not stupid and foolish arguments. As believers we are also supposed to do the following:

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the servant of God[SUP]a[/SUP] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

And also:

"Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them."

We're exposing!

And I agree, we should continue to expose.

But when a particular person is hard-hearted and isn't willing to have fruitful conversation about a subject, you should leave that person be and move on to others.

 

[james57]

Because as long as people have questions about the Sabbath, I'm happy to explain why God has convinced me of it. Just as you have tried to explain that God hasn't convinced you about the Sabbath.

Why does it matter to you if you're still engaging in this conversation?

Because I do not see how you can reconcile your statements with Rom 14:5. You stated:

Has" to be kept? No.
"Should" be kept? Yes.
Sinning? If you've been made aware of an instruction by God, and you don't do it? Yes. But I personally don't go there in conversations.






But Saturday is set-apart by God.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Originally Posted by P1LGR1M You are at odds by teaching that the Sabbath has to be kept or one is sinning.

Do you do that?

"Has" to be kept? No.
"Should" be kept? Yes.
Sinning? If you've been made aware of an instruction by God, and you don't do it? Yes. But I personally don't go there in conversations.

Then you violate Paul's teaching.

You are setting aside clear New Testament teaching that was specific to New Covenant believers and imposing the Law on men, thus seeking to bring them under bondage to Law.

And before you deny that, understand that Paul did not Cherry-Pick the Law as you do, nor was Paul afraid to address any question posed to him, because his doctrine was solid and sound.

Present a New Testament passage that even hints that men are to keep the Sabbath.

Originally Posted by P1LGR1M
Do you feel you are right and those who keep Sunday, and those who see every day as holy unto God are wrong?

I'm no better than anyone. Worship should be done every day of the week, and folks should get into church as much as possible to worship.

Where do we see that men are to get into "church as much as possible to worship" in the New Testament?

But Saturday is set-apart by God.

So how does that translate to commanding Sabbath Keeping or it is sin?

That is in conflict with Paul's teaching.

Originally Posted by P1LGR1M
You say in your tag you keep the Law, well, do you offer up sacrifice of animals for remission of sins and atonement?

Pay a little more attention to my comments. You'll see that you don't need to keep asking this question.

Is there a post where you have answered this? Admittedly, I have been tied up, and not keeping up with this thread, so are you saying you have directly answered this question? Could you provide the thread and post you do so in?

Originally Posted by P1LGR1M
In this post you imply that you have liberty to keep the Sabbath, and I agree with that. However, if you feel that keeping the Sabbath is something that must be done, then you find yourself at odds with clear teaching.
God bless.

Again, what do you mean by "must"? To what I end "must" someone do anything?

You know what is meant.

You have said it is sin if one does not keep the Sabbath, and have gone so far as to suggest that it is only sin if one is not aware "God demands it."

I would agree with the stance that says if you don't keep the Sabbath, you have disobeyed God. But here is the caveat I would give: Until God has made you aware that He wants you to keep the Sabbath, you are innocent if you don't keep it.

Now, provide a Biblical Basis for your doctrine.

Show me how one "becomes aware" that "God wants me to keep the Sabbath."

It's your doctrine...present it.

And I'll have to check back later. Honestly, you guys make it tough for someone to leave, lol. You are like Lay's potato chips. Which a re second only to cookies.




God bless.

 

[KohenMatt]

Because I do not see how you can reconcile your statements with Rom 14:5. You stated:

Has" to be kept? No.
"Should" be kept? Yes.
Sinning? If you've been made aware of an instruction by God, and you don't do it? Yes. But I personally don't go there in conversations.


But Saturday is set-apart by God.

Well, I'm sorry it doesn't make sense to you. There's not much more I can say to you about it than I already have.

Perhaps we should move along.

 

[Ahwatukee]

And I agree, we should continue to expose.

But when a particular person is hard-hearted and isn't willing to have fruitful conversation about a subject, you should leave that person be and move on to others.

Very true! And I agree that when it gets to that point there should be a time when we break it off!