Why I keep the Sabbath FYI.

[GandalfTheWhite]

I know Tintin's heart is in the right place and he didn't mean to hurt anybody

 

[Brother_Don]

In the beginning God created man (male and female) in His own image. There was no such thing as israel, jews, greeks, chineese, just man. So how can one say that God meant the Sabbath only for Israel, when that was God's word on the 7th day?

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Well I am happy to respond to you question. I didn't personally know everyone in the church I went to for a few weeks to please someone who asked me to go. I went with a willingness to embrace people who saw things differently than me on some subjects. As Paul calls disputable matters whether you avoid the levitical unclean foods, and if you consider one day more sacred than another I didn't see those differences as anything to worry about
The first thing that shocked me was, people were taking the lords name in vain and laughing while doing so. I have never experienced that in any other church I have ever been to. As we cannot sin in ignorance due to the law being placed within us, I was extremely perturbed by what I was witnessing. Two people I knew in the church had multiple affairs while dressing immaculately on a Saturday. One of them enthusiastically called out Amen if the minister said something she approved of. A woman who often led the service until the minister spoke was sleeping with her partner outside of marriage
And yet, these same people were adamant the ten commandments must be obeyed to attain heaven.
I am only speaking honestly. I saw more open and flagrant sin in that church than I have in any other church I have been to in forty years.
I knew someone who went to a different church on a Saturday. She too openly took the lords name in vain and had multiple affairs alongside being in the Choi ob Saturdays at church

I am sorry to hear about your bad experience with these churches.

We cannot generalise as a result of our bad experiences. If that was the case I would have said all Christians believing in grace are without love (if looking only at this website) but I can't do that. There are good people and not so good people posting on this website and we have to accommodate all of them.

Do we find hypocrites in the churches? Sure. I was a member of a church (Apostolic full of grace like you wouldn't believe) and I found out that there was sexual relationships in the band, and also fornication etc. Who am I to judge all churches in the world as a result? What is the difference between me and the atheist reading this website throwing rocks at the glass houses?

We should teach each other in love and respect our differences and keep manmade doctrines out of our relationship with God because He despise manmade religion... but I am sure if we do something he told us to do he wouldn't mind.

God told us to keep the Sabbath and as a result we as Christians can rest on the Sabbath without debating it all over the show

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

In the beginning God created man (male and female) in His own image. There was no such thing as israel, jews, greeks, chineese, just man. So how can one say that God meant the Sabbath only for Israel, when that was God's word on the 7th day?

Yes, it was instructed by God.

The question should be, did God do it? Yes
Did He instruct us to do it? Yes

So why are we then debating. Nobody are connecting the dots to Salvation here but to instruction from God. It is up to us to decide if God will be ok with us not listening to His word as a result of our interpretation from what Paul said

 

[james57]

I am sorry to hear about your bad experience with these churches.

We cannot generalise as a result of our bad experiences. If that was the case I would have said all Christians believing in grace are without love (if looking only at this website) but I can't do that. There are good people and not so good people posting on this website and we have to accommodate all of them.

Do we find hypocrites in the churches? Sure. I was a member of a church (Apostolic full of grace like you wouldn't believe) and I found out that there was sexual relationships in the band, and also fornication etc. Who am I to judge all churches in the world as a result? What is the difference between me and the atheist reading this website throwing rocks at the glass houses?

We should teach each other in love and respect our differences and keep manmade doctrines out of our relationship with God because He despise manmade religion... but I am sure if we do something he told us to do he wouldn't mind.

God told us to keep the Sabbath and as a result we as Christians can rest on the Sabbath without debating it all over the show

My overriding impression of the church I went to was. Where is the holy spirit? And that is being truthful.

I am not naive enough to believe no one in mainstream churches has affairs, but ad I said. In forty years of going to church I have never seen such flagrant sin as I did in that particular church
I am sorry you feel some who speak of grace are unloving. Do you think in some cases if others have a mocking and derisive attitude towards them and bear false witness concerning them they may react as they are not perfect? It is easy to just look at perceived faults in others. It enables us to look away for a time at our own shortcomings

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

My overriding impression of the church I went to was. Where is the holy spirit? And that is being truthful.

I am not naive enough to believe no one in mainstream churches has affairs, but ad I said. In forty years of going to church I have never seen such flagrant sin as I did in that particular church
I am sorry you feel some who speak of grace are unloving. Do you think in some cases if others have a mocking and derisive attitude towards them and bear false witness concerning them they may react as they are not perfect? It is easy to just look at perceived faults in others. It enables us to look away for a time at our own shortcomings

James, I am currently in a church where we are encouraged to keep the Sabbath.

Church are on Sunday and we try to keep as close as possible to the word of God. I can't talk for other churches on here but I have never in my life seen anybody with a relationship with God like our pastor. He teaches us with the love of Jesus Christ and I have seen the Holy Spirit work in the church in ways I could never imagine... and the best of all is it was Biblical no funny business like in some churches.

Hope you find what you are looking for brother and excuse my sarcasm sometimes when frustration gets the better of me

 

[james57]

James, I am currently in a church where we are encouraged to keep the Sabbath.

Church are on Sunday and we try to keep as close as possible to the word of God. I can't talk for other churches on here but I have never in my life seen anybody with a relationship with God like our pastor. He teaches us with the love of Jesus Christ and I have seen the Holy Spirit work in the church in ways I could never imagine... and the best of all is it was Biblical no funny business like in some churches.

Hope you find what you are looking for brother and excuse my sarcasm sometimes when frustration gets the better of me

I excuse you as I hope you will excuse me. I have found what I am looking for, but thank you for your words

 

[PeterJens]

I guess some people just have a flair for the dramatic.

Blindness and lack of love.

There are many very good points made from all sides in the debates but the subject is not neutral. It is children in a playground flinging mud, because they are sure the other party is really a lot worse or motivated wrongly.

The mistake many are making is that motivations matter above actions, when it is actions matter above motivations.
A good deed is a good deed no matter who does it or why.

Motivations matter because if they are not right the good deeds stop, or end up inspiring bad deeds, or raise fake support with bitterness eating away within.

Jesus praised the pharisees for the good things they did, but said their only reward was the praise they sought.

Good deeds done as works of the law will fail, because there is nothing to sustain them. Very few here are doing good deeds from the law here but listening to what is being accused, you would not think so.

 

[KohenMatt]

What does it mean to keep the Sabbath? I mean does that mean no working at all? Also I never understood which was the Sabbath, ppl say saturday but others say sunday

Blain,
Saturday is the Sabbath, not Sunday or any other day of the week. All are worthy or worshiping God on, but only Saturday is the actual Sabbath.

"Keeping" the Sabbath? Practically for my family and I.....

By Friday night, we have cleaned the house and taken care of all regular work (house work, yard work, except for any care that needs to be done for our animals.)

We start of Friday night with a special meal that is distinct from the rest of the week. Afterwards, my wife and I bless our children verbally and in song. Then we pray for each of them, including their future spouses, children, careers, ministries, etc.

We go to church Saturday morning and are there for about 6 hours-ish, in service and fellowship. (Prayer, worship, teaching, meal.) We end the day in fellowship with others at someone's house.

Our Sabbath is an entire day devoted to God, where nothing we do is absent of worshiping God in some way. I have found that despite claims that every day is about worshiping God, most people are incapable of setting apart an entire day somewhere throughout the week because of jobs, work, etc. That is why an intentional and set-apart day of worship is so incredible and needed in our lives.

While God meets with us everyday of the week, I believe He is honored when we place a priority on a set-apart "date" with Him free of any distractions.

 

[KohenMatt]

Ok but if you say clean the house on the sabbath, does that mean you didn't keep it?

The Sabbath is more than checking off a list to see if you don't do anything resembling work. It's about the focus of the day and removing as many distractions as possible. To me, that is "keeping" the Sabbath.

 

[KohenMatt]

Well I don't know about the whole not working thing but if the sabbath is used to spend time with God and develop the relationship then everyday is the Sabbath for me. Why on earth would I set aside one day of the week to spend personal intimate time with him when I can do this everyday? No matter what I am doing or where I am I can always find him I can speak with him I can connect intimately with him and I can learn from him. When People make the excuse that they don't have enough time to spend with him they are lying to themselves, if you love someone enough you always make time for them.

I think gotime brought up a good analogy. I can spend intimate time with wife everyday throughout the week in the midst of regular life. But when we set up a special date for just the 2 of us, that is a special kind of intimacy we cannot enjoy the rest of the week. That date is a priority for us where we dress a little nicer, do something different (go out to dinner, a movie, shopping (which any parent will say it is a special time to go shopping with no kids)). That date is something we look forward to and place a high priority on, no matter how close we have been throughout the week.

I view the Sabbath the same with God.

 

[KohenMatt]

Well I've met people who observe a Saturday Sabbath who have multiple affairs while doing so. They are in earnest a Saturday Sabbath must be obeyed

And I've met many a non-Sabbath keeper who do the same thing. The Sabbath shouldn't be viewed or judged by a person's actions, but by God's view of the Sabbath.

 

[KohenMatt]

Well I am happy to respond to you question. I didn't personally know everyone in the church I went to for a few weeks to please someone who asked me to go. I went with a willingness to embrace people who saw things differently than me on some subjects. As Paul calls disputable matters whether you avoid the levitical unclean foods, and if you consider one day more sacred than another I didn't see those differences as anything to worry about
The first thing that shocked me was, people were taking the lords name in vain and laughing while doing so. I have never experienced that in any other church I have ever been to. As we cannot sin in ignorance due to the law being placed within us, I was extremely perturbed by what I was witnessing. Two people I knew in the church had multiple affairs while dressing immaculately on a Saturday. One of them enthusiastically called out Amen if the minister said something she approved of. A woman who often led the service until the minister spoke was sleeping with her partner outside of marriage
And yet, these same people were adamant the ten commandments must be obeyed to attain heaven.
I am only speaking honestly. I saw more open and flagrant sin in that church than I have in any other church I have been to in forty years.
I knew someone who went to a different church on a Saturday. She too openly took the lords name in vain and had multiple affairs alongside being in the Choir on saturdays at church

And if you took a good look around any church (Sabbath-keeping or not), we would find the same thing.

 

[james57]

And if you took a good look around any church (Sabbath-keeping or not), we would find the same thing.

That is what someone said to me who observed a Saturday Sabbath, I strongly disagree. As I have said, in no other church have I ever heard anyone take the lords name in vain, let alone laugh as they did so, nor have I seen such blatant promiscurity. At the same time, I am not naive enough to believe it never happens at all, and in some churches it may happen more than in others.
Sinning without conscience is not possible for a born again christian
I very much respected your stance yesterday, but some insinuate if you do not observe a Saturday Sabbath you are refusing to obey one of Gods commands. I didn't mean to offend you in what I wrote, but I do believe my experience I wrote of puts things in their true perspective

 

[KohenMatt]

That is what someone said to me who observed a Saturday Sabbath, I strongly disagree. As I have said, in no other church have I ever heard anyone take the lords name in vain, let alone laugh as they did so, nor have I seen such blatant promiscurity. At the same time, I am not naive enough to believe it never happens at all, and in some churches it may happen more than in others.

I agree with most of what you are saying. I would say though, you are fortunate in that you haven't seen that behavior in "non-Sabbath-keeping" churches that you have attended, and unfortunate that you saw it in a "Sabbath-keeping" church. I have seen the ills you speak of each of those kind of churches. As I'm sure you would agree, we cannot judge the merits of God's word based on the actions of people.

I very much respected your stance yesterday, but some insinuate if you do not observe a Saturday Sabbath you are refusing to obey one of Gods commands.

To some extent though, I would agree with the stance that says if you don't keep the Sabbath, you have disobeyed God. But here is the caveat I would give: Until God has made you aware that He wants you to keep the Sabbath, you are innocent if you don't keep it. A child can do something wrong, but until they have been given the instruction to not do something, they are innocent because they didn't know what the rule is; it becomes a teaching moment for them. But once you are made aware the standard, you are then responsible for your actions towards it.

I will say though, disobedience to a command (any command, New Testament or Old), whether knowingly or unknowingly does not affect your overall relationship with God, it just becomes a time where something was broken for a season and then becomes a teaching moment.

 

[james57]

I agree with most of what you are saying. I would say though, you are fortunate in that you haven't seen that behavior in "non-Sabbath-keeping" churches that you have attended, and unfortunate that you saw it in a "Sabbath-keeping" church. I have seen the ills you speak of each of those kind of churches. As I'm sure you would agree, we cannot judge the merits of God's word based on the actions of people.



To some extent though, I would agree with the stance that says if you don't keep the Sabbath, you have disobeyed God. But here is the caveat I would give: Until God has made you aware that He wants you to keep the Sabbath, you are innocent if you don't keep it. A child can do something wrong, but until they have been given the instruction to not do something, they are innocent because they didn't know what the rule is; it becomes a teaching moment for them. But once you are made aware the standard, you are then responsible for your actions towards it.

I will say though, disobedience to a command (any command, New Testament or Old), whether knowingly or unknowingly does not affect your overall relationship with God, it just becomes a time where something was broken for a season and then becomes a teaching moment.

I appreciate the tone of your response, but concerning your last point. I cannot overemphasise one of the two core points on which the new covenant hinges. The law God desires you to keep is placed in your most inward parts. Therefore you cannot sin in ignorance, do I would have to disagree with you comments that God would at some point make me aware I was neglecting a command for instance if I did not observe a Saturday sabbath. If that law was placed on my heart, I would have to know it was there

 

[KohenMatt]

I appreciate the tone of your response, but concerning your last point. I cannot overemphasise one of the two core points on which the new covenant hinges. The law God desires you to keep is placed in your most inward parts. Therefore you cannot sin in ignorance, do I would have to disagree with you comments that God would at some point make me aware I was neglecting a command for instance if I did not observe a Saturday sabbath. If that law was placed on my heart, I would have to know it was there

And I would disagree with you as well.

 

[james57]

And I would disagree with you as well.

What would you disagree with? Do you not accept that under the new covenant the law God desires you to keep is written on your mind and placed on your heart by the spirit?
Sin is transgression of the law. Therefore you must know in your heart when you sin. I am not convicted I comnit sin by failing to specifically observe a saturday Sabbath. I say that in full knowledge of the specific day set aside under the old covenant, and the fact the church changed the day from Saturday to sunday

 

[KohenMatt]

What would you disagree with? Do you not accept that under the new covenant the law God desires you to keep is written on your mind and placed on your heart by the spirit?
Sin is transgression of the law. Therefore you must know in your heart when you sin. I am not convicted I comnit sin by failing to specifically observe a saturday Sabbath. I say that in full knowledge of the specific day set aside under the old covenant, and the fact the church changed the day from Saturday to sunday

Out of respect for the OP, I would suggest you take your point to a new thread.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Many people seem to misunderstand what the sabbath keepers are saying and until we understand that they are talking about the Sabbath in the way it was a blessed day by GOD before the law was given.

I don't think there will be a fruitful discussion,but as far as my feelings on this matter I think Its a work of the flesh and I'm not saying It's a bad work Its just a work that has no reward in heaven.