Why I keep the Sabbath FYI.

[GandalfTheWhite]

I am amazed nobody turned you in , [still here] for trying to sell your favorite books on c c.

Maybe it was Sparkman writing the books ... royalties ya know???

 

[sparkman]

Maybe it was Sparkman writing the books ... royalties ya know???

I'm too lazy.

 

[sparkman]

Not to pick on you gotime because you seem pretty nice, but do SDAs refer to their teachings as "the Truth"? In my Armstrongite circles, that was the catch phrase for the teachings of the organization, implying that others were not of "the Truth". I know that SDAs don't categorically reject others as non-Christians but do they use that phrase to refer to their own teachings?

If the organization doesn't use it, is it a common phrase used amongst the membership?

So, this phrase "the Truth" amongst Armstrongites was used like this:

I'm so glad God called me to "the Truth".
Aren't you glad that God opened your eyes to "the Truth"?

I saw some young Sabbathkeeper telling an older Sabbathkeeper the same thing in the chatroom the other day..she posted something like..well we know the Truth in a smug sort of way lol.

What they meant was their peculiar doctrines and not Jesus Christ Himself. The Truth is a Person.

 

[KohenMatt]

Do you follow the Roman Catholic Sabbath which is on Sunday or do you follow the real Sabbath which is on Saturday?

Real Sabbath on Saturday. I'm all for people worshipping together on Sunday. It's just not the Sabbath.

 

[gotime]

Not to pick on you gotime because you seem pretty nice, but do SDAs refer to their teachings as "the Truth"? In my Armstrongite circles, that was the catch phrase for the teachings of the organization, implying that others were not of "the Truth". I know that SDAs don't categorically reject others as non-Christians but do they use that phrase to refer to their own teachings?

If the organization doesn't use it, is it a common phrase used amongst the membership?

So, this phrase "the Truth" amongst Armstrongites was used like this:

I'm so glad God called me to "the Truth".
Aren't you glad that God opened your eyes to "the Truth"?

I saw some young Sabbathkeeper telling an older Sabbathkeeper the same thing in the chatroom the other day..she posted something like..well we know the Truth in a smug sort of way lol.

What they meant was their peculiar doctrines and not Jesus Christ Himself. The Truth is a Person.

While I can't speak for everyone who claims to be an SDA the bible is clear that Jesus is the Truth and that his word is truth as it testifies of Him.

The bottom line in all of scripture is Jesus.

 

[1faith]

The apostles who walked with Jesus, were given the Holy spirit all held church service on Sundays.
Why would you 2000 years later claim to be MORE inspired?

 

[Biblelogic01]

The apostles who walked with Jesus, were given the Holy spirit all held church service on Sundays.
Why would you 2000 years later claim to be MORE inspired?

Actually they just met to discuss and fellowship on Sundays, just as some churches have a Wednesday night groups (or as one of the churches I went called it, home groups) and they discussed what they had learned from the teachings on sabbath.
Paul and Peter both observed Sabbath and taught every Sabbath.

Last I checked Peter even said for gentiles to go to synagogue on Sabbath and learn.

The apostles meeting on Sundays was nothing more than what we have today in week day church night groups.
Almost every church I've been to does that, and that's exactly what the apostles were doing.
They weren't replacing Sabbath.

And Sunday technically was initiated as a day of observance or gathering really until Constatine came around.
A good book I would suggest reading on that type of topic would be "Constatine's Sword" or "The Sword of Constantine" I can't remember what it's called. But it's a very educational book on these things, and along with it has historical facts to back it up.

Oh and on a side note.
The Holy Spirit was given to the apostles when?
On Pentecost!!!
Which for those who do not know, is a feast from Leviticus 23 :O OH NOOOO!!!! THE APOSTLES FOLLOWED THE FEASTS!!!!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Oh and on a side note.
The Holy Spirit was given to the apostles when?
On Pentecost!!!
Which for those who do not know, is a feast from Leviticus 23 :O OH NOOOO!!!! THE APOSTLES FOLLOWED THE FEASTS!!!!

Of course they did. They were under the law of Moses at that time. Then, after receiving the spirit, they learned that they were under the law of liberty, and any observance of those things was just a matter of conforming to cultural custom for the sake of the gospel.

 

[sparkman]

Jesus and Paul and many of the early Church were Jews, and as such observed elements of the Law. They even observed physical circumcision, as Acts 21 indicates.

By the way, the only times after the crucifixion, which initiated the New Covenant, that the Sabbath is mentioned are 8 events where Paul taught in the synagogue to the unconverted on the Sabbath, one time that he taught some Jewish unconverted people alongside the river, and Colossians 2:16-17 as well as Hebrews 4:9-10. Both Colossians 2 and Hebrews 4 are easily explainable.

There are references to festival observances in the New Testament after the New Covenant began. As mentioned, there was nothing wrong with observing the festivals.

However, as Galatians clearly teaches, as well as II Corinthians 3, Acts 15 and Romans 7:1-7, the Old Covenant is no longer in effect. That's the main point

Actually they just met to discuss and fellowship on Sundays, just as some churches have a Wednesday night groups (or as one of the churches I went called it, home groups) and they discussed what they had learned from the teachings on sabbath.
Paul and Peter both observed Sabbath and taught every Sabbath.

Last I checked Peter even said for gentiles to go to synagogue on Sabbath and learn.

The apostles meeting on Sundays was nothing more than what we have today in week day church night groups.
Almost every church I've been to does that, and that's exactly what the apostles were doing.
They weren't replacing Sabbath.

And Sunday technically was initiated as a day of observance or gathering really until Constatine came around.
A good book I would suggest reading on that type of topic would be "Constatine's Sword" or "The Sword of Constantine" I can't remember what it's called. But it's a very educational book on these things, and along with it has historical facts to back it up.

Oh and on a side note.
The Holy Spirit was given to the apostles when?
On Pentecost!!!
Which for those who do not know, is a feast from Leviticus 23 :O OH NOOOO!!!! THE APOSTLES FOLLOWED THE FEASTS!!!!

 

[sparkman]

I agree with that. My guess is that some people in your church refer to your beliefs collectively as The Truth and you evaded my question. I know that's the mentality of many Sabbathkeepers, as well as others who hold aberrant beliefs.

While I can't speak for everyone who claims to be an SDA the bible is clear that Jesus is the Truth and that his word is truth as it testifies of Him.

The bottom line in all of scripture is Jesus.

 

[A_Friend_In_Christ]

Why fight over this stuff? why?

 

[sparkman]

Why fight over this stuff? why?

Ever watch billy goats butt each other and knock each other off the hill? Similar mentality. Ever notice that most participants are male? Testosterone

 

[gotime]

I agree with that. My guess is that some people in your church refer to your beliefs collectively as The Truth and you evaded my question. I know that's the mentality of many Sabbathkeepers, as well as others who hold aberrant beliefs.

Come on sparkman that is a bit low. Do you know for a fact that I evaded the question? No so why even say that? That is bearing false witness.

Play nice.

On the issue of truth though I would be surprised if there was a single church that did not have people that think they have the truth. In fact I would question their commitment or authenticity if they did not think they taught truth.

Jesus is the truth and His word is the Truth, anyone who is in line with that has or knows the Truth as it is in Jesus. Big issue over nothing really.

 

[sparkman]

Come on sparkman that is a bit low. Do you know for a fact that I evaded the question? No so why even say that? That is bearing false witness.

Play nice.

On the issue of truth though I would be surprised if there was a single church that did not have people that think they have the truth. In fact I would question their commitment or authenticity if they did not think they taught truth.

Jesus is the truth and His word is the Truth, anyone who is in line with that has or knows the Truth as it is in Jesus. Big issue over nothing really.

OK. So if you are telling me you have never heard a SDA refer to the teachings of the SDA church collectively as "the Truth" I will believe it.

By the way my E. Free church says in essentials unity, in non-essentials charity so they are ecumenical within the context of evangelical Christianity.

 

[gotime]

OK. So if you are telling me you have never heard a SDA refer to the teachings of the SDA church collectively as "the Truth" I will believe it.

By the way my E. Free church says in essentials unity, in non-essentials charity so they are ecumenical within the context of evangelical Christianity.

I have heard that before as I have heard it in churches that are not SDA or Sabbath keeping. It really means nothing as you can find all sorts of people in every church.

 

[sparkman]

I have heard that before as I have heard it in churches that are not SDA or Sabbath keeping. It really means nothing as you can find all sorts of people in every church.

Many churches maybe, and I wouldn't attend them if more than a few oddballs thought that but I know what you mean.

I remember once being at a church convention at a restaurant and the waitress asked a couple nearby if we were all from the same denomination. The man launched into a diatribe about how we weren't a denomination......the insinuation was that we were the true church and not a Protestant denomination....blah blah blah. So much for trying to be a positive example and leaving good tips. One couple associated with us likely caused the waitress to think we were a bunch of jerks.

Anyways I think your point is you can't control what other people in your organization say, so I agree.

 

[Grandpa]

I find your first line rather interesting being that Gods word says:

Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

God says the 7th day is blessed and the reason for it is that he rested.

So did God go back to work on day 8 and then rest again on day 14 because it is blessed?

No.

Its Rest that is blessed.

Not every other 7th day.

Coming to Christ is blessed.

Receiving Rest from God is blessed.

Saturday is just another day of the week. Cartoon day...

For Christians who have come to Christ and have received Rest and are dead to the law and alive to God.


What is blessed is what God gives us, personally. Create a clean heart in me, O Lord. Cause me to follow your statutes... The lawyers and legalists fail to realize that this is a direct reference to the Spirit and the fruit of the Spirit.

Our will in trying to follow these things doesn't work out. All we do is attempt to define the Spiritual so the carnal can keep it. Unless God gives it to us it is futile.

The Law is Spiritual. How is the 4th commandment of 'keeping' a sabbath every saturday spiritual? Is not murdering someone spiritual?

 

[Grandpa]

Why fight over this stuff? why?

It's essentially people trying to impose working at the law on christians.

That's the way of Judaism. Not Christianity.

Acts 15 they tried to blend Judaism and Christianity. If that were the way it would have been embraced back then.

 

[1faith]

Yet for nearly 2,000 years now, millions of Christians have worshiped on Sunday. So was the Sabbath changed from the seventh to the first day of the week? Let’s look at the “yes” now.
“The Son of Man is Lord also of the Sabbath” (Luke 6:5). Here Jesus staked His claim and forbade anyone to meddle with the Sabbath. Yet He knew there would be those who would claim the power to change God’s Law. Through Daniel he warned of just such a man. Describing a “little horn power” (Daniel 7:8), Daniel says, “He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws” (Daniel 7:25). Paul made a similar prediction: “Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God, or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God” (2 Thessalonians 2:3, 4, 7).
Paul warned that this blasphemy was already at work, and that it would come not from an outside influence, but from within the church (2 Thessalonians 2:7, Acts 20:28-30). Sure enough, not long after Paul’s day, apostasy appeared in the church.
About 100 years before Christianity, Egyptian Mithraists introduced the festival of Sunday, dedicated to worshiping the sun, into the Roman Empire. Later, as Christianity grew, church leaders wished to increase the numbers of the church. In order to make the gospel more attractive to non-Christians, pagan customs were incorporated into the church’s ceremonies. The custom of Sunday worship was welcomed by Christians who desired to differentiate themselves from the Jews, whom they hated because of the Jews’ rejection of the Savior. The first day of the week began to be recognized as both a religious and civil holiday. By the end of the second century, Christians considered it sinful to work on Sunday.
The Roman emperor Constantine, a former sun-worshiper, professed conversion to Christianity, though his subsequent actions suggest the “conversion” was more of a political move than a genuine heart change. Constantine named himself Bishop of the Catholic Church and enacted the first civil law regarding Sunday observance in A.D. 321.

On the venerable day of the sun let the magistrate and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country however, persons engaged in agricultural work may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits; because it often happens that another day is not so suitable for grain growing or for vine planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost. —Schaff’s History of the Christian Church, vol. III, chap. 75.
​

Note that Constantine’s law did not even mention Sabbath but referred to the mandated rest day as a “the venerable day of the sun.” And how kind he was to allow people to observe it as it was convenient. Contrast this with God’s command to observe the Sabbath “even during the plowing season and harvest” (Exodus 34:21)! Perhaps the church leaders noticed this laxity as well, for just four years later, in A.D. 325, Pope Sylvester officially named Sunday “the Lord’s Day,” and in A.D. 338, Eusebius, the court bishop of Constantine, wrote, “All things whatsoever that it was the duty to do on the Sabbath (the seventh day of the week) we (Constantine, Eusebius, and other bishops) have transferred to the Lord’s Day (the first day of the week) as more appropriately belonging to it.”
Instead of the humble lives of persecution and self-sacrifice led by the apostles, church leaders now exalted themselves to the place of God. “This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world” (1 John 4:3).
The Catechism

Recall the ceremony with which God made known His Law, containing the blessing of the seventh-day Sabbath, by which all humanity is to be judged. Contrast this with the unannounced, unnoticed anticlimax with which the church gradually adopted Sunday at the command of “Christian” emperors and Roman bishops. And these freely admit that they made the change from Sabbath to Sunday.
In the Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, we read:

Q. Which is the Sabbath day?
A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.
Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea, (AD 336) transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday….
Q. Why did the Catholic Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday, because Christ rose from the dead on a Sunday, and the Holy Ghost descended upon the Apostles on a Sunday.
Q. By what authority did the Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday by the plenitude of that divine power which Jesus Christ bestowed upon her!
—Rev. Peter Geiermann, C.SS.R., (1946), p. 50.
​

In Catholic Christian Instructed,

Q. Has the [Catholic] church power to make any alterations in the commandments of God?
A. …Instead of the seventh day, and other festivals appointed by the old law, the church has prescribed the Sundays and holy days to be set apart for God’s worship; and these we are now obliged to keep in consequence of God’s commandment, instead of the ancient Sabbath.
—The Catholic Christian Instructed in the Sacraments, Sacrifices, Ceremonies, and Observances of the Church By Way of Question and Answer, RT Rev. Dr. Challoner, p. 204.
​

In An Abridgment of the Christian Doctrine,

Q. How prove you that the church hath power to command feasts and holy days?
A. By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of; and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same church.
Q. How prove you that?
A. Because by keeping Sunday, they acknowledge the church’s power to ordain feasts, and to command them under sin; and by not keeping the rest [of the feasts] by her commanded, they again deny, in fact, the same power.
–Rev. Henry Tuberville, D.D. (R.C.), (1833), page 58.
​

In A Doctrinal Catechism,

Q. Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?
A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her. She could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.
–Rev. Stephen Keenan, (1851), p. 174.
​

In the Catechism of the Council of Trent,

The Church of God has thought it well to transfer the celebration and observance of the Sabbath to Sunday!
–p 402, second revised edition (English), 1937. (First published in 1566)
​

In the Augsburg Confession,

They [the Catholics] allege the Sabbath changed into Sunday, the Lord’s day, contrary to the decalogue, as it appears; neither is there any example more boasted of than the changing of the Sabbath day. Great, they say, is the power and authority of the church, since it dispensed with one of the ten commandments.
—Art. 28.
​

God warned that a blasphemous power would “seek to change times and laws,” and the Catholic Church openly admits doing it, even boasts about it. In a sermon at the Council of Trent in 1562, the Archbishop of Reggia, Caspar del Fossa, claimed that the Catholic Church’s whole authority is based upon the fact that they changed the Sabbath to Sunday. Does this not fulfill the prophecies of Daniel and Paul?

“For centuries millions of Christians have gathered to worship God on the first day of the week. Graciously He has accepted this worship. He has poured out His blessings upon Christian people as they have sought to serve Him. However, as one searches the Scriptures, he is forced to recognize that Sunday is not a day of God’s appointment… It has no foundation in Scripture, but has arisen entirely as a result of custom,” says Frank H. Yost, Ph.D. in The Early Christian Sabbath.
​

Let us ask the question again: Was the Sabbath changed from the seventh day of the week to the first? The Bible is clear: “And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy” (Genesis 2:3). “Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy” (Exodus 20:11). If God intended for another day to become the Sabbath, He must have removed the blessing from the seventh day and placed it on the day which was to replace it. But when God bestows a blessing, it is forever. “…You, O Lord, have blessed it, and it will be blessed forever” (1 Chronicles 17:27). “I have received a command to bless; He has blessed, and I cannot change it” (Numbers 23:20). Your birthday, a memorial of your birth, can’t be changed, though you may celebrate it on a different day. Neither can the Sabbath, a memorial of creation (Exodus 20:11), be changed, though some may celebrate it on a different day.
God instructed Moses to construct the earthly sanctuary, all its furniture, and the ark according to “the pattern” he was shown. (Exodus 25:9, 40) The ark was called the “ark of the covenant” (Numbers 10:33, Deuteronomy 10:8, Hebrews 9:4), and the “ark of the testimony” (Exodus 25:22), because in it Moses placed the tablets of stone on which God wrote His Law. (Exodus 25:16, 31:18) John, in Revelation 11:19, describes the scene before him when “the temple of God was opened in Heaven.” John saw the ark of the covenant in the heavenly sanctuary. David wrote, “Your word, O Lord, is eternal; it stands firm in the heavens” (Psalm 119:89). It is safe to assume that God’s Law remains, contained within the ark of the covenant in the heavenly sanctuary.
When God says, “The seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God” (Exodus 20:10), that ends all controversy. We cannot change God’s Word for our own convenience. “But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve” (Joshua 24:15).
– Emily Thomsen – See more at: What day is the Sabbath and does it matter? | Sabbath Truth

You quoted all old test scriptures relating to the Sabbath as if we are no longer of a new covenant with a forever High priest.
The Apostles who walked with Jesus, who were baptized by the Holy Ghost on Pentecost as Jesus said to wait for of which then before churches existed Jesus who said I am LORD of the Sabbath, I will BUILD MY church then authorized Apostles to set up Elders in local towns Initiating this ONE church WHO ALL MET ON THE F I R S T DAY OFTHE WEEK AS THEY ALSO SET ASIDE THIER EARNINGS TO BE TAKEN UP ON THIS F I R S T DAY.
ARE YOU OF THE OLD COVENT SYNAGOGE OR THE CHURCH OF CHRIST?

 

[prove-all]

He “blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it”!

What does “sanctified” mean? Look in your dictionary.
It means “set apart, for holy use or purpose.” He set apart this day
from other days—set it apart for holy use—for a day of physical rest,
in which His people may assemble and worship God!


Acts 16:12-15: Here we find Paul and Silas at Philippi.

And “we were in that city abiding certain days. And on the sabbath we
went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made,
and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.

And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of
purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us:
whose heart the Lord opened …. And … she was baptized ….”

Here Paul and his companions waited until the Sabbath, and then
went to a place of worship, and preached,and this woman, probably a Gentile,
was converted.

The passage indicates it was the custom to meet there on the Sabbath,
and that it was custom for Paul and his companions to go to a place
of prayer and worship when the Sabbath day came.

For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach
him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day” (verse 21).

The law of Moses—the first five books of the Bible—
was being taught in the synagogues every Sabbath day.

Acts 18:1-11: “After these things Paul departed from Athens,
and came to Corinth; And found a certain Jew named
Aquila … with his wife Priscilla … and came unto them. And
because he was of the same craft, he abode with them, and
wrought: for by their occupation they were tentmakers.

And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded
the Jews and the Greeks.”

Here Paul worked weekdays, but went to church and taught
Gentiles as well as Jews every Sabbath.

when the Jews became offended and blasphemed, he turned away from
the Jews altogether, and from then on preached to Gentiles only (verse 6),
and he continued there a year and six months (verse 11)—working weekdays

—preaching to Gentiles ONLY—every Sabbath!

To these Gentile-born at Corinth, Paul commanded:
“Be yefollowers of me, even as I also am of Christ” (1 Corinthians 11:1).

And Paul “as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days
reasoned with them out of the scriptures” (Acts17:2).

It was his manner, his custom, a total of 84 different Sabbaths Paul is shown
specifically to have kept. Did he follow Jesus in this? Why, certainly!

As was Jesus’s custom… went into the synagogue on the sabbath day. Paul followed Him,
and commanded the Gentile converts to follow him, even as he followed Christ.

Worship God in spirit and in truth? Jesus said plainly: “[T]hy word is truth.”

God’s Word is the Bible! The Bible authorizes only the Sabbath as God’s
weekly holy day for joint assembly and worship.

We read, in Acts 7:38, that those Israelites “received the lively oracles
to give unto us” —for us who, under the New Testament, are Christians

Christ said, in the sermon on the mount: “Think not that I am come
to destroy the law,” so professing Christians think He did come to destroy it!

The Bible is the authority of God! What authority do people have for Sunday?