Why do people preach about not trying?

[pearlspring]

Or is it my error in understanding?
It seems like I heard a sermon about not trying to do good works but that it's the Holy and Jesus plus nothing!

I feel in my walk, even though I have knowledge of what the Holy Spirit wants me to do, I still have to ''try'' and put my effort to be obedient?

I hope that doesn't mean that I am not one of the chosen!

I hope to learn from others here.

 

[tablet123]

Or is it my error in understanding?
It seems like I heard a sermon about not trying to do good works but that it's the Holy and Jesus plus nothing!

I feel in my walk, even though I have knowledge of what the Holy Spirit wants me to do, I still have to ''try'' and put my effort to be obedient?

I hope that doesn't mean that I am not one of the chosen!

I hope to learn from others here.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Tit 2:7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,
Tit 2:8 Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.

We have to have good works for it is a requirement being a Christian to obey God's laws and goodness and show the world that example.

We cannot neglect it for if we do we are not saved.

Are you going to get a job and then go contrary of that job and if you do how are you a worker.

If we go contrary to God's ways how are we a Christian.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Some people go contrary to what it is to be a Christian denying the Spirit leading them and do not come to the truth.

It is a requirement to allow the Spirit to lead us to do good works which is love.

If we neglect that we are not in a position to be saved.

How can people say works do not save us when we have to have good works or we are not saved and do not come to the truth.

We are saved by faith, and not by works when we first confess Christ for that is all we can do.

But when we receive the Spirit we have to have works of love, goodness, to have faith active in our life.

Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

If we do not continue in the goodness of God we will be cut off like the Hebrews in the Old Testament that were disobedient.

Many people in Christianity do not come to the truth.

Any person that says they cannot abstain from sin are sinning and are not in the truth.

If we sin we repent and allow the Spirit to lead us.

God knows the heart if you let it go or are holding on to it.

Not have the attitude you cannot abstain from sin because you want to enjoy sin.

Who twisted your arm to sin, and you have a choice and could of chose good, and if you sin you wanted the sin.

And then say you could not avoid it.

If the world is in trouble for their sin how is a person that claims Christ and holds unto sin going to escape.

Jesus said you will know them by their fruit.

And a good tree brings forth good fruit.

And Jesus is the vine and we are the branch so we should have the same behavior as Him.

But if a person does not have good works how are they Christlike.

1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Charity, love in action, works, is greater than faith, and faith works by love.

We have to have works of love or our faith is no good.

1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Paul said he can have all faith but if he did not have charity he is nothing.

Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

James said we are justified by works.

Paul and James say the same thing have charity works of love.

1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

Love is only valid if it is done in works.

And since charity is greater than faith then we have to have works of love to have faith.

Neglect those works then you are not in a position for salvation.

So works save us.

We cannot say all we need is faith when our actions matter towards salvation.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Or is it my error in understanding?
It seems like I heard a sermon about not trying to do good works but that it's the Holy and Jesus plus nothing!

I feel in my walk, even though I have knowledge of what the Holy Spirit wants me to do, I still have to ''try'' and put my effort to be obedient?

I hope that doesn't mean that I am not one of the chosen!

I hope to learn from others here.

It can be a bit confusing. It's normal for us humans to put effort into things; that's just the nature of our life in this material world. However, there's a difference between working to prove to God we're good enough and working to please the Lord because we are His. Working and striving to please the Lord are concepts found throughout the New Testament; that's actually why He saved us, for good works. "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them." Ephesians 2:10 Of course we should also strive in prayer. With God helping us by His Holy Spirit, our burden becomes a lot lighter.

 

[timf]

Christian practice today can seem superficial and anemic. Often pastors incite and inflame their congregations with emotional exhortation similar to a sales motivation meeting. This is really an appeal to the flesh and can be harmful for Christians.

 

[DavidLamb]

Or is it my error in understanding?
It seems like I heard a sermon about not trying to do good works but that it's the Holy and Jesus plus nothing!

I feel in my walk, even though I have knowledge of what the Holy Spirit wants me to do, I still have to ''try'' and put my effort to be obedient?

I hope that doesn't mean that I am not one of the chosen!

I hope to learn from others here.

If the preacher was saying to Christians that they don't need to put any effort into doing good works, that seems to go against the bible, where we read what Paul wrote to the Christians at Ephesus:

“For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” (Eph 2:10 NKJV)

On the other hand, if the preacher was saying that good works are not what saves us, he was right. In the two previous verses, Paul wrote:

“8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.” (Eph 2:8-9 NKJV)

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Or is it my error in understanding?
It seems like I heard a sermon about not trying to do good works but that it's the Holy and Jesus plus nothing!

I feel in my walk, even though I have knowledge of what the Holy Spirit wants me to do, I still have to ''try'' and put my effort to be obedient?

I hope that doesn't mean that I am not one of the chosen!

I hope to learn from others here.

Don"t pay attention to people who talk like that. They are modern gnostics who have been led astray by the ungodly Calvin who developed his theology from the gnostic Augustine. Growing into Christ is a lot of hard work. Anyone who puts a stumbling block in front of Christians that discourages them from doing works of the spirit is liable for a very serious sin.

 

[DavidLamb]

Don"t pay attention to people who talk like that. They are modern gnostics who have been led astray by the ungodly Calvin who developed his theology from the gnostic Augustine. Growing into Christ is a lot of hard work. Anyone who puts a stumbling block in front of Christians that discourages them from doing works of the spirit is liable for a very serious sin.

Sorry, but Calvinists and Calvin certainly do not teach that works are unimportant, but that our works cannot save us, as Paul writes in Ephesians 2. Yet works should follow after a sinner has been saved by grace.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Sorry, but Calvinists and Calvin certainly do not teach that works are unimportant, but that our works cannot save us, as Paul writes in Ephesians 2. Yet works should follow after a sinner has been saved by grace.

Salvation is both justification and sanctification. Justification alone doesn't save. Justification happens once for all time through faith alone; works can"t earn it.

But salvation, which is based on the foundation of justification, is based on works of faith. ie works of the spirit. Those works are not meant, or able, to earn sanctification, but to preserve it and keep ourselves spiritually clean, ie, holy, without which no one will see the lord

In sum, justification is by faith alone, but salvation is walking in Christ

 

[DavidLamb]

Salvation is both justification and sanctification. Justification alone doesn't save. Justification happens once for all time through faith alone; works can"t earn it.

But salvation, which is based on the foundation of justification, is based on works of faith. ie works of the spirit. Those works are not meant, or able, to earn sanctification, but to preserve it and keep ourselves spiritually clean, ie, holy, without which no one will see the lord

In sum, justification is by faith alone, but salvation is walking in Christ

So what do you make of these words written to the Ephesians to remind them how they had been saved?:

“4 ¶ But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made [us] sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.” (Eph 2:4-9 NKJV)

Paul says specifically that being saved is "not of works." He goes on in verse 10 to say that as a result of being saved we should do the good works which God has prepared for us.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

So what do you make of these words written to the Ephesians to remind them how they had been saved?:

“4 ¶ But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made [us] sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.” (Eph 2:4-9 NKJV)

Paul says specifically that being saved is "not of works." He goes on in verse 10 to say that as a result of being saved we should do the good works which God has prepared for us.

Justification is not of works, and without being reconciled through faith alone there would be no salvation. So it is the essential first step of salvation that cannot be earned by our works, ie, we are owed something for what we did.

However, it does require our work to walk in Christ, and there is simply no salvation apart from that. Use it or lose it. Our work is not done to earn anything, but to keep clean what we have already freely received through faith alone. Works of the flesh defile a person and make them unclean, whereas works of the spirit are holy and keep us from being separated from Christ. Being in Christ is salvation

 

[DavidLamb]

Justification is not of works, and without being reconciled through faith alone there would be no salvation. So it is the essential first step of salvation that cannot be earned by our works, ie, we are owed something for what we did.

However, it does require our work to walk in Christ, and there is simply no salvation apart from that. Use it or lose it. Our work is not done to earn anything, but to keep clean what we have already freely received through faith alone. Works of the flesh defile a person and make them unclean, whereas works of the spirit are holy and keep us from being separated from Christ. Being in Christ is salvation

It seems we are in agreement. I had thought you were saying that we need to do good works in order to achieve salvation. Sorry for misunderstanding.

 

[studentoftheword]

I feel in my walk, even though I have knowledge of what the Holy Spirit wants me to do, I still have to ''try'' and put my effort to be obedient?

Putting your own effort into being obedient will not work -------we need to lay down our Effort and Put our Inbirthed Faith into action -----Faith always requires a Positive response ------Faith requires action

Abraham obeyed and left his family to the unknown place by and through God's Faith that God inbirthed in Abraham -----Abraham was moved by God's Faith to obey God's Command -------

Noah responded to his INbirthed Faith by God by acting on what God commanded -----his positive response was that he build the ark when there was no rain in sight ------


God's Faith has power to move you ----to obey -----and act ---

Faith will move the person to do Good Works-------and the Good works done gives God the Glory ---not us ----

The Parable of the Good Samaritan is a perfect example --of God's Faith in a positive response --Faith in action ----

This Faith in action is very misunderstood in my opinion -----as many just believe that if they themselves go serve their neighbour that is their Faith in action -------which is intellectual or Human Faith ---which is a non producing Faith ---

But this Faith that drives us to serve our neighbour is a Producing Faith which only comes from hearing God;s word ------not all people have this Faith ---

This Faith is a substance -----it is not human Faith

Greek word for SUBSTANCE

Lexical Summary
hupostasis: Substance, assurance, confidence, essence, reality

properly, (to possess) standing under a guaranteed agreement ("title-deed");

(figuratively) "title" to a promise or property, i.e. a legitimate claim (because it literally is, "under a legal-standing") – entitling someone to what is guaranteed under the particular agreement.

For the believer, 5287 /hypóstasis ("title of possession") is the Lord's guarantee to fulfill the faith He inbirths (cf. Heb 11:1 with Heb 11:6).

 

[Karlon]

Or is it my error in understanding?
It seems like I heard a sermon about not trying to do good works but that it's the Holy and Jesus plus nothing!

I feel in my walk, even though I have knowledge of what the Holy Spirit wants me to do, I still have to ''try'' and put my effort to be obedient?

I hope that doesn't mean that I am not one of the chosen!

I hope to learn from others here.

this reminds me of a lesson i created awhile back. "don't try to do something, just do it, bypass the trying & do the do"!

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

It seems we are in agreement. I had thought you were saying that we need to do good works in order to achieve salvation. Sorry for misunderstanding.

Language is a difficult thing to work with at times. This is part of the work we have to go through. There's nothig for you to be sorry about.

 

[pearlspring]

It seems we are in agreement. I had thought you were saying that we need to do good works in order to achieve salvation. Sorry for misunderstanding.

I do believe that we have to do good works (the deeds) for salvation and that it goes hand-in-hand, our faith and deeds in the book of James and that I always thought that when Paul in Romans said that, He was talking about not of works of self, but he was not talking about works of the Spirit. Works of the Spirit is necessary to prove our faith and therefore we need works of the Spirit and faith to be saved, which ties with the scripture of not doing this and that (works 'of the Spirit') and the Lord said I never knew you! And those who did not do will not enter the kingdom of Heaven. However, we can agree to disagree and pray about it.

 

[pearlspring]

It can be a bit confusing. It's normal for us humans to put effort into things; that's just the nature of our life in this material world. However, there's a difference between working to prove to God we're good enough and working to please the Lord because we are His. Working and striving to please the Lord are concepts found throughout the New Testament; that's actually why He saved us, for good works. "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them." Ephesians 2:10 Of course we should also strive in prayer. With God helping us by His Holy Spirit, our burden becomes a lot lighter.

Yes, I do find our burden becomes lighter when we do/are obedient to something because we know it is for our best and will have a good outcome and that it is God, the wisest and the most loving, who wants this. I guess as we grow in that understanding I think that's when the burden can become lighter.

 

[pearlspring]

Here's the scripture. “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. -Matthew 7:21 NIV We have to really study the Word of God. It can be dangerous not to.

 

[pearlspring]

“Not every one who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord', shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but only he that does the will of My Father who is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, '' 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name? and in Your name have cast out devils? and in Your name done many wonderful works?' And then will I profess to them, 'I never knew you: depart from Me, you that work iniquity!' ” Matt 7:21-23

 

[pearlspring]

“Not every one who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord', shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but only he that does the will of My Father who is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, '' 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name? and in Your name have cast out devils? and in Your name done many wonderful works?' And then will I profess to them, 'I never knew you: depart from Me, you that work iniquity!' ” Matt 7:21-23

Although if anyone knows and can clearly explain this scripture to me, I'd really appreciate it. I just seem to understand that God wants us to ''do'' the 'Father's will' (what exactly is the Father's will?) and it's only those people who will get to Heaven, and that God doesn't want us to do iniquity/sin. Perhaps it is saying and I'm guessing and assuming that like some people may do many wonderful works but they're hypocrites and only have an outward appearance or elegance with words. Maybe that's the context?

 

[DavidLamb]

Although if anyone knows and can clearly explain this scripture to me, I'd really appreciate it. I just seem to understand that God wants us to ''do'' the 'Father's will' (what exactly is the Father's will?) and it's only those people who will get to Heaven, and that God doesn't want us to do iniquity/sin. Perhaps it is saying and I'm guessing and assuming that like some people may do many wonderful works but they're hypocrites and only have an outward appearance or elegance with words. Maybe that's the context?

There were, and are still, people who claim to be followers of Christ who show that their claim is false, because they do not obey God. Nobody does God's will absolutely perfectly. After all, Jesus summarised the commandments buy saying that we are to love God with all our heart, all our soul, all our mind and all our strength, and our neighbour as ourselves. Which of us would claim to do that perfectly, every moment of every day of our lives? That is why we need a Saviour. It is also why both Jesus and His apostles taught that we are saved, not by living perfect lives, but by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. Once we are saved, our lives should show the difference. Our delight should be to obey God, not in order to be saved but because we are saved. I believe that in the verses you quoted, Jesus was pointing to the danger of falsely claiming to be a Christian, but at the same tie refusing to obey God.