Why are Christians such phonies?

[saintrose]

Remember, without forgiveness your life will just be a reflection of those that offend you.

That's a scary thought.

 

[Jimbone]

I've been a Christian for a long time and I saw such terrible things; my eyes have been opened to just how sick the church as a whole is. My husband pulled us out of a church and put us into a church I did not like. I had been warned about the family that owned the church and the warning turned out to be true. The youth pastor was corrupt and cheated a family member in a big way. It really hurt but then they were caught doing something corrupt and their names were splashed across the newspapers - countrywide. They hurt a lot of people and then they went to a fair day the town held and set up their booth trying to draw new victims into their church. They were so blatant about it. I actually think they were stealing from the church.

Then we went to another church and the leadership was terrible. They told me that "God" put them in their positions and what they said was it. I was shocked at such overt pride. Then I was injured and we stopped attending the church we went to for 10 years. The pastor stopped taking my calls and I saw that I guess if you're not supporting the church you don't get his time.

Then a friend who I had looked up to never came to visit when I was injured, never sent a card, nothing. But she did that for all the people in her church and I saw that she was a respecter of persons. She and her husband are snooty.

Then I've been on a few other forums and the people are downright demonic. I saw that it's all a lie. Once in awhile you meet someone who is upright but many of the so-called "Christians" are total jerks or psychopaths. One guy got angry whenever I posted a thread and he would jump on immediately and attack me. My husband said he's got something wrong with him. It got so bad I had to threaten him with contacting the police because he was making me feel unsafe.

I'm just really disillusioned with christianity. It all seems like a lie.

I hate this, not just for you but this is how SO many view the church. There's really only one thing I want to point out about your comment. In every bit of your judgement you are aiming at the entire body of Christ was done by the actions of men. Can
I ask you a question, have you been spiritually born again in truth the way Jesus tells Nicodemus we must be to see the kingdom of God? There is more to being made new in Jesus than walking to the front of a church building and repeating some words.

Men are false, lying hypocrites, and even in Him we can make bad mistakes, but this speaks nothing at all to if Jesus is true or not. Jesus is REAL and Jesus is THE Truth, so all these discouraging things that you see "Christians" do, they have nothing to do what so ever with if "Christianity" is true. Anyway just wanted to kind of point that out, being a Christian has to do with YOUR relationship with God, not with how others that proclaim to be Christian act, not able to even know who's saved anyway.

 

[pottersclay]

I've been a Christian for a long time and I saw such terrible things; my eyes have been opened to just how sick the church as a whole is. My husband pulled us out of a church and put us into a church I did not like. I had been warned about the family that owned the church and the warning turned out to be true. The youth pastor was corrupt and cheated a family member in a big way. It really hurt but then they were caught doing something corrupt and their names were splashed across the newspapers - countrywide. They hurt a lot of people and then they went to a fair day the town held and set up their booth trying to draw new victims into their church. They were so blatant about it. I actually think they were stealing from the church.

Then we went to another church and the leadership was terrible. They told me that "God" put them in their positions and what they said was it. I was shocked at such overt pride. Then I was injured and we stopped attending the church we went to for 10 years. The pastor stopped taking my calls and I saw that I guess if you're not supporting the church you don't get his time.

Then a friend who I had looked up to never came to visit when I was injured, never sent a card, nothing. But she did that for all the people in her church and I saw that she was a respecter of persons. She and her husband are snooty.

Then I've been on a few other forums and the people are downright demonic. I saw that it's all a lie. Once in awhile you meet someone who is upright but many of the so-called "Christians" are total jerks or psychopaths. One guy got angry whenever I posted a thread and he would jump on immediately and attack me. My husband said he's got something wrong with him. It got so bad I had to threaten him with contacting the police because he was making me feel unsafe.

I'm just really disillusioned with christianity. It all seems like a lie.

Wow so sorry you went through all of that.
Sounds like it sucked the forgiveness right out of ya
Now I'm sure you prayed for Jesus to guide you to a fellowship right?
Now I'm sure you presented yourself as friendly correct?

I'm sure you didn't judge the others according to your standards right.
If you prayed and we're led to all of these I'm sure you brought to the lord's attention first possibly asking how you could help.
If the actions from others makes you want to give up your faith well then I'd examine myself personally.
No card no visits speaks volumes.

I'm sorry if you see this as rude and crass but I am speaking from the heart.
Seems like you should of got more bang for your buck if this is what entertained you.

For you who think being churchless is the way to go..... fellowship is crucial if one wants to grow.

 

[saintrose]

Your posts show a pattern of bitterness. I think you have been given many kind and patient answers in the past. It is past time for you to stop focusing on the failures of others and focus on your own faults. Namely the fault of finding fault. You can take this as an unkind reply and find fault or you can receive it as a word from the Lord to you and rush to His feet for forgiveness and healing.

Yes I know I have bitterness - I've been very up front about it. And no one could have searched their heart more than me because I've been through hell. I think I've had more than my share of grief on this earth and I seek God and feel Him so close I could touch Him but then it fades and I'm left dealing with the physical pain and emotional pain. Everyone excuses God and makes excuses for why He doesn't help but I face it squarely: He doesn't do what He said He would. That's why that lawyer's take resonated with me. Just where WAS God when those young children were being molested by priests? Where was He when that young devout Guatemalan girl was getting raped 100x a day? How can you even think He'll help you in anything if He didn't help with the more serious issues?

I'm also very concerned because we all know America is crumbling before our eyes. It's been a slow death of being de-industrialized, expanding debt, a police state, and unchecked immigration. I worry for my family.

Then I know people who cheated and are getting disability yet do physically exerting chores. A relation of a family member has been on disability for many years and plays golf, rides horses - yet claims he can't work??? I used to talk to a bunch of cheaters on Inspire forum - they were all whining that Republicans were going to take their free health care goodies. I told them they don't know what it's like to struggle. Many are lazy slobs - the one woman said she's on disability and goes to the beach every day. Hah. I should be that lucky. I don't qualify but I'm as physically broken as a human can get. I was hustling to get side work and broke down because I can't understand why God allows lazy cheaters to get a free handout while people who are really in a bad way are forced out to support themselves. Nothing makes sense. I ask God why He's helping those people and yet not those who are His. But then I think of how He treated the apostles.

I went through a horrendous experience that I won't even share as it was so traumatizing. I was pushed beyond the limits of endurance and I spoke to a woman at an office I called and we somehow found out we were both Christians. She gushed that her family lost their dog and through a set of circumstances "God brought their dog back to them!" I know there's a verse about singing to a heavy soul and that was the worst thing I could have heard. Okay God helped you find your puppy but He doesn't help me when I'm going through sheer hell. It made me wonder if God really did help them or it was just her perception. If God was going to do that then why didn't He help the young Guatemalan girl?

Most Christians sweep the inconsistencies under the rug. I can't do that anymore. I have had some prayers answered but the inconsistencies don't sit with me anymore.

I'm at a weird time in my faith - I'm not going to play a tune for others to hear - I'm going to speak and live the truth and the truth is that God seems to be abandoning His people. And before you go pointing the finger, remember even the apostles "despaired of life."

 

[Mii]

Oh, I had a thought @saintrose a while ago regarding your confusion that someone can preach/teach sound doctrine and yet be living in sin or abusing congregants or what have you...

It may be a season in their life. The word doesn't return void and likely they have picked up much but may be in a bad place "personally" with the Lord but that doesn't mean he won't still use them anyway.

If God can use a non-believer to lead someone to Christ he can certainly use an errant pastor to minister to church needs (to an extent). His will shall be done regardless. I only say that to suggest that just because someone's teaching/preaching is sound, doesn't mean they are right with the Lord. Don't let it confuse you overmuch. It is puzzling but I know myself that I've been in rather "stubborn" phases (at worst rebellion) and still the Spirit seems to move on me with others when I talk to a brother or sister. It's like a switch is flipped and then I know that whatever private/personal issues I have, it is irrelevant. It doesn't change where I am with the Lord but he WILL get a yield on what he has sown into a person, whether they are "yielding" or not. It's baffling to witness but I postulate that their turnaround could be next week or it could be years away, who knows?

 

[saintrose]

I hate this, not just for you but this is how SO many view the church. There's really only one thing I want to point out about your comment. In every bit of your judgement you are aiming at the entire body of Christ was done by the actions of men. Can
I ask you a question, have you been spiritually born again in truth the way Jesus tells Nicodemus we must be to see the kingdom of God? There is more to being made new in Jesus than walking to the front of a church building and repeating some words.

Men are false, lying hypocrites, and even in Him we can make bad mistakes, but this speaks nothing at all to if Jesus is true or not. Jesus is REAL and Jesus is THE Truth, so all these discouraging things that you see "Christians" do, they have nothing to do what so ever with if "Christianity" is true. Anyway just wanted to kind of point that out, being a Christian has to do with YOUR relationship with God, not with how others that proclaim to be Christian act, not able to even know who's saved anyway.

I thought of the verse that Jesus knew what was in man.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I wondered if America is under judgement since so much has gone wrong here.

Well, there are some signs that point to judgment but I often wonder what is being judged. The whole nation? Or the evil within it? We had the most pro-life, pro-religious freedom, and pro-Israel candidate elected to the highest power of the land. Then erupted arguments and discussions over 4 years about the true morality of issues. Then to have over 200 conservative judges put into the office while equally having 3 Supreme Court justices added to the bench. Barrett was added literally right before the election. Was that just luck or God's blessing?

If it is judgment then it is a weird judgment. A lot of things have happened that God would be pleased with. God also promises to those who support Israel, He will also bless them. We just saw 3 middle east peace deals also.

I believe God is waking up His people, His church to eradicate such evil and to fight for what we know to be true.

No one knows what the next week, weeks, or years may bring. Will violence continue or grow? How will it be suppressed? This all falls into the realm beyond our human power. It is by faith in God we know He will not abandon us. He will protect us.

 

[Blain]

I've been a Christian for a long time and I saw such terrible things; my eyes have been opened to just how sick the church as a whole is. My husband pulled us out of a church and put us into a church I did not like. I had been warned about the family that owned the church and the warning turned out to be true. The youth pastor was corrupt and cheated a family member in a big way. It really hurt but then they were caught doing something corrupt and their names were splashed across the newspapers - countrywide. They hurt a lot of people and then they went to a fair day the town held and set up their booth trying to draw new victims into their church. They were so blatant about it. I actually think they were stealing from the church.

Then we went to another church and the leadership was terrible. They told me that "God" put them in their positions and what they said was it. I was shocked at such overt pride. Then I was injured and we stopped attending the church we went to for 10 years. The pastor stopped taking my calls and I saw that I guess if you're not supporting the church you don't get his time.

Then a friend who I had looked up to never came to visit when I was injured, never sent a card, nothing. But she did that for all the people in her church and I saw that she was a respecter of persons. She and her husband are snooty.

Then I've been on a few other forums and the people are downright demonic. I saw that it's all a lie. Once in awhile you meet someone who is upright but many of the so-called "Christians" are total jerks or psychopaths. One guy got angry whenever I posted a thread and he would jump on immediately and attack me. My husband said he's got something wrong with him. It got so bad I had to threaten him with contacting the police because he was making me feel unsafe.

I'm just really disillusioned with christianity. It all seems like a lie.

My friend I know how you feel I have had many experiences with churches not many were good. I visited a church nearby because I was curious about it all they preached on was sin they would constantly speak about everything people did wrong they never once spoke about salvation or God's love they would twist scripture and everyone there had no joy on their faces and finally I had enough and stood up as the sermon was being spoken confronting this pastor about all of this he told me to be silent and I told him how can I be silent when you are destroying these people?

He like those people said that God placed him there so how dare I speak against him and I told him that he as a pastor and teacher a guide for fathers sheep are to be held accountable more than anypopne for the things they say and teach and as far as I can tell you are not fit to lead. I was banished from that church but I know how you feel.
Jesus said this all would happen that many would fall from faith that love would wax cold, it is true we cannot see other peoples hearts but we can see the fruits especially online where people tend to speak what they really think and feel because even if only subconsciously there is a sense of security behind a screen.

However it is best to put your focus on the ones who do show his love and his light, it's good to have discernment and know who are clearly not of him but at the same time we are not commanded to discern the goats among the sheep we are commanded to engourage and build up each other to love and to be of peace

 

[Scribe]

Yes I know I have bitterness - I've been very up front about it. And no one could have searched their heart more than me because I've been through hell. I think I've had more than my share of grief on this earth and I seek God and feel Him so close I could touch Him but then it fades and I'm left dealing with the physical pain and emotional pain. Everyone excuses God and makes excuses for why He doesn't help but I face it squarely: He doesn't do what He said He would. That's why that lawyer's take resonated with me. Just where WAS God when those young children were being molested by priests? Where was He when that young devout Guatemalan girl was getting raped 100x a day? How can you even think He'll help you in anything if He didn't help with the more serious issues?

I'm also very concerned because we all know America is crumbling before our eyes. It's been a slow death of being de-industrialized, expanding debt, a police state, and unchecked immigration. I worry for my family.

Then I know people who cheated and are getting disability yet do physically exerting chores. A relation of a family member has been on disability for many years and plays golf, rides horses - yet claims he can't work??? I used to talk to a bunch of cheaters on Inspire forum - they were all whining that Republicans were going to take their free health care goodies. I told them they don't know what it's like to struggle. Many are lazy slobs - the one woman said she's on disability and goes to the beach every day. Hah. I should be that lucky. I don't qualify but I'm as physically broken as a human can get. I was hustling to get side work and broke down because I can't understand why God allows lazy cheaters to get a free handout while people who are really in a bad way are forced out to support themselves. Nothing makes sense. I ask God why He's helping those people and yet not those who are His. But then I think of how He treated the apostles.

I went through a horrendous experience that I won't even share as it was so traumatizing. I was pushed beyond the limits of endurance and I spoke to a woman at an office I called and we somehow found out we were both Christians. She gushed that her family lost their dog and through a set of circumstances "God brought their dog back to them!" I know there's a verse about singing to a heavy soul and that was the worst thing I could have heard. Okay God helped you find your puppy but He doesn't help me when I'm going through sheer hell. It made me wonder if God really did help them or it was just her perception. If God was going to do that then why didn't He help the young Guatemalan girl?

Most Christians sweep the inconsistencies under the rug. I can't do that anymore. I have had some prayers answered but the inconsistencies don't sit with me anymore.

I'm at a weird time in my faith - I'm not going to play a tune for others to hear - I'm going to speak and live the truth and the truth is that God seems to be abandoning His people. And before you go pointing the finger, remember even the apostles "despaired of life."

You wear gross darkness as if it were a badge to be proud of.

 

[shittim]

SupernaturalHousechurch.org is a great little fellowship that emphasizes worship the original way, house churches. Acts tells of how the believers sold their excess property and met together, kids learned of God by the personal relationship their parents had with God. We were always meant to experience God, the early church got supplanted by man made churches that require people to jump through ritual hoops to make themselves right with God when all who are born again and Spirit filled know just as scripture states Jesus paid it ALL. He has the nicest little 5 and 10 minute teachings on you tube of experiencing God that I believe you will find a blessing.
In my area a church I attended folded, it was based on a family, a family that didn't know God, they knew about Him, just as Jesus told us in these days "they will have an outward form of godliness denying the Power thereof".
Ever since the fall in Genesis God has proceeded with His plan to redeem mankind to him. We had 2,000 years of confusion, we had Abraham, then Moses, then when it was clearly shown the Law could not save He sent His only begotten Son who paid it all and asks personal relationship with us, to "know " us in relationship.
This world wide weaponized virus attack on the world has shut down churches, it has not shut down worship. His own are walking in stronger Spiritual power than ever, every day I am given divine encounters to do His good will and be the conduit for His manifestation.

 

[Scribe]

SupernaturalHousechurch.org is a great little fellowship that emphasizes worship the original way, house churches. Acts tells of how the believers sold their excess property and met together, kids learned of God by the personal relationship their parents had with God. We were always meant to experience God, the early church got supplanted by man made churches that require people to jump through ritual hoops to make themselves right with God when all who are born again and Spirit filled know just as scripture states Jesus paid it ALL. He has the nicest little 5 and 10 minute teachings on you tube of experiencing God that I believe you will find a blessing.
In my area a church I attended folded, it was based on a family, a family that didn't know God, they knew about Him, just as Jesus told us in these days "they will have an outward form of godliness denying the Power thereof".
Ever since the fall in Genesis God has proceeded with His plan to redeem mankind to him. We had 2,000 years of confusion, we had Abraham, then Moses, then when it was clearly shown the Law could not save He sent His only begotten Son who paid it all and asks personal relationship with us, to "know " us in relationship.
This world wide weaponized virus attack on the world has shut down churches, it has not shut down worship. His own are walking in stronger Spiritual power than ever, every day I am given divine encounters to do His good will and be the conduit for His manifestation.

I have heard a lot said about the first century church meeting in houses. However much of what I have heard has not taken into account what that looked like in the 30s, 40s, 50s AD. Many have taught it as if it were a livingroom church. Not so. they had houses that had large courtyards. The common construction of the time. The living and sleeping sections of the house were private and not where they met. They would meet in the courtyards which depending on the house could seat a couple of hundred people in many cases and more if the house owner was a wealthy person. These people mentioned in the book of Acts or in Pauls letters who had churches that met in their house were believed to be some of the wealthier members who could host larger groups in their courtyards. Some houses had upper chamber rooms designed for hosting larger groups.

It always irritates me to hear someone teach a modern living room church scenario and say that is how they did it at first. Not so. And such ignorance disqualifies the teacher in my opinion. Nothing else he presents can be trusted. He needs to take a course on New Testament Survey and learn about the cultural context of the books of the New Testament before he or she presents themselves as a teacher. Then they will not make these obvious mistakes.

Another example is how they contributed their wealth to support others in Jerusalem because of the current need but we do not see it repeated in Asia minor and other places. Yet people will teach it as though all of the first churches did it like that.

So we continue to have myths and misinformation spread about what the first church was like and I suppose it will continue even with Google.

The first century church was very much like today. Local assemblies with elders/pastors and people meeting, worshipping, teaching and being taught the scriptures, and contributing to the needs of the combined church by bringing offerings and tithes. Sending missionaries to help other churches or start them and all working together for the great commission.

There are many churches today that operate in the same Spirit, and governance, and organization as they did in the book of Acts. And if they are in a town of any size and operating in the empowerment of the Holy Spirit to be witnesses they will be growing and will not be able to fit in anyone's living room before too long after getting started.

 

[shittim]

So, getting back to Supernaturalhousechurch.org, I was led to this some years ago and it has been a real blessing and I have a leading you may appreciate the helps in personal relationship with the Father.
blessings

 

[saintrose]

You wear gross darkness as if it were a badge to be proud of.

Yeah well if I had my choice - and I don't - I'd be a happy lil lark like you.

 

[EleventhHour]

God seems to be abandoning His people.

God does not abandon His people.

 

[saintrose]

Wow so sorry you went through all of that.
Sounds like it sucked the forgiveness right out of ya
Now I'm sure you prayed for Jesus to guide you to a fellowship right?
Now I'm sure you presented yourself as friendly correct?

I'm sure you didn't judge the others according to your standards right.
If you prayed and we're led to all of these I'm sure you brought to the lord's attention first possibly asking how you could help.
If the actions from others makes you want to give up your faith well then I'd examine myself personally.
No card no visits speaks volumes.

I'm sorry if you see this as rude and crass but I am speaking from the heart.
Seems like you should of got more bang for your buck if this is what entertained you.

For you who think being churchless is the way to go..... fellowship is crucial if one wants to grow.

Actually the church we attended for 10 years people were leaving and I spoke with one of the members one day who told me he and his wife were leaving because the church is so cold. And a friend of mine left that church as well - before us. And the assistant pastor and his wife left. My husband said that he doesn't even think many of the people who go there are saved - it's more a social club.

Yes the friend whose house I met at every week did disappoint me when she never sent a card or visited in the hospital. What did happen was that I saw her for what she really was: a respecter of persons. It opened my eyes. I thought that my husband and I kind of bungled the Christian walk because I was honest about my flaws but she never was. My husband kept telling me he bets the husband is at home watching porn, or their kids are doing something - he said I was being naive because they acted like they had it all together. I think what happened shows more about who she is than who I am.

 

[saintrose]

God does not abandon His people.

I hope you're never tested like Job. I don't think very many people live through trauma and come out the other side without questioning God.
He says He wants truth in our innermost being and I think that He would respect someone who was honest about their sincere doubts.

I read of a young girl who was a gung ho christian and then she was brutally raped. She couldn't line up a loving God with Him watching that happen to her. She left the faith.

I can understand her. Why aren't we telling God He should act?

There are just too many discrepancies.

 

[EleventhHour]

I hope you're never tested like Job. I don't think very many people live through trauma and come out the other side without questioning God.
He says He wants truth in our innermost being and I think that He would respect someone who was honest about their sincere doubts.

I read of a young girl who was a gung ho christian and then she was brutally raped. She couldn't line up a loving God with Him watching that happen to her. She left the faith.

I can understand her. Why aren't we telling God He should act?

There are just too many discrepancies.

God is not the author of evil and blaming Him resolves nothing.

 

[saintrose]

Oh, I had a thought @saintrose a while ago regarding your confusion that someone can preach/teach sound doctrine and yet be living in sin or abusing congregants or what have you...

It may be a season in their life. The word doesn't return void and likely they have picked up much but may be in a bad place "personally" with the Lord but that doesn't mean he won't still use them anyway.

If God can use a non-believer to lead someone to Christ he can certainly use an errant pastor to minister to church needs (to an extent). His will shall be done regardless. I only say that to suggest that just because someone's teaching/preaching is sound, doesn't mean they are right with the Lord. Don't let it confuse you overmuch. It is puzzling but I know myself that I've been in rather "stubborn" phases (at worst rebellion) and still the Spirit seems to move on me with others when I talk to a brother or sister. It's like a switch is flipped and then I know that whatever private/personal issues I have, it is irrelevant. It doesn't change where I am with the Lord but he WILL get a yield on what he has sown into a person, whether they are "yielding" or not. It's baffling to witness but I postulate that their turnaround could be next week or it could be years away, who knows?

That's a good point - God can use them. The family did get severely punished - their names are mud now in the area. But they hurt a lot of people permanently. They lost their business. I just feel sorry for anyone who stumbles into their "church" which I think is where they're getting their money. Very very dishonest people.

I thought of the verse that Christ didn't put himself in their hands "because He knew what was in man." From what I've seen, there isn't a real lot of difference between Christians and non. Some difference sometimes but Christians can be every bit as rotten as non.

 

[saintrose]

God is not the author of evil and blaming Him resolves nothing.

Luke 22:31-33

King James Version

31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not:

 

[tourist]

I'm just really disillusioned with christianity. It all seems like a lie.

The problem is choices of these churches and not Christianity.