circa 70 A.D.
The start of the time of the Two Witnesses marks the end of the G.T.
( whoso readeth, let him understand: )
- Thread starter GaryA
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I am not a Preterist. Nor am I teaching Preterism.
I consider myself to be a Historicist.
I do not believe that all End Times Scenario prophecy has been fulfilled; however, I do believe that some of it has been fulfilled - over the past ~2000 years.
It Appears You teach (Partial Preterism)
You can't have a 70AD Great Tribulation In Matthew 24:21, And Jesus Christ Returning (Immediately After The Tribulation Of Those Days) 2,000 Years And Waiting.
The Abomination of Desolation seen in Matthew 24:15 below (Causes) the Great Tribulation seen in Matthew 24:21, Jesus Christ Returns In The Heavens in Matthew 24:29-31 (Immediately After The Tribulation Of Those Days) (They Shall See The Son Of Man Coming)
The Abominations Of Desolation, The Great Tribulation, And The Second Coming Of Jesus Christ Are (Future Events) Unfulfilled.
No The Great Tribulation Didn't Take Place In The 70AD Destruction Of Jerusalem, While The Church Has Been Waiting 2,000 Years To Fulfill The Words (Immediately After The Tribulation Of Those Days) In The Second Coming Seen Of Jesus Christ.
(Preterism Is A False Teaching)
Matthew 24:15-21KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
The Olivet Discourse Is The Test For (Preterist) Teaching?
You Teach The Abomination Of Desolation And Great Tribulation Seen In Matthew 24 Have Been Fulfilled, I Will Assume You Believe The Second Coming Seen In Matthew 24:29-30 Is Future?
This Belief And Teaching Is (Partial Preterism)
(Full Preterist) Believe And Teach All Events Seen, Including The Second Coming In Matthew 24:29-30 Has Been Fulfilled.
Preterism Is A False Teaching, All Events Seen, The Abomination, The Great Tribulation, And The Second Coming Are Future, Unfulfilled
Gary you suggest the (Great Tribulation) seen in Matthew 24:21 below started in 70AD then you suggest that this (Great Tribulation) identified has lasted for the past 1950 years, and is ongoing?
The scripture clearly teaches that the Great Tribulation will be caused by the Abomination Of Desolation seen in Matthew 24:15, the scripture clearly teaches it's a sudden event, as people flee homes, leave fields and clothes?
The scripture clearly teaches that the time is so bad no flesh could survive, the days are cut short?
Gary The World Hasn't Been Experiencing A Great Tribulation Described Below For The Past 1950 Years, Be Honest With The Facts
Gary it's a fairy tale to teach that the (Great Tribulation) seen below, started in 70AD, and will continue somewhere in the future at the revealing of the (Two Witnesses)
Gary, 1) Daniels Abomination Of Desolation, 2) The Great Tribulation, And 3) The Second Coming Seen Below Are All (Future) Events Unfulfilled.
Matthew 24:15-30KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
You are erroneously equating "preterism" with "full preterism".
They are not the same thing. Every single Christian is a preterist to some degree; we believe that the Messiah, as prophesied, has already come.
So if you want to claim that "preterism is a false teaching", you are calling Christian belief a false teaching.
Your Suggesting All Christian's Are Preterist Is A Joke, Big Smiles!
The Three Test Of Preterism, Fulfilled Or Future?
The Holy Bible Teaches All Events Below Are (Future)
1.) Antichrist AOD, Human Man, Literal Future
2.) The Great Tribulation, Literal Future
3.) The Second Coming, Literal Future
Once Again, The Olivet Discourse Is The Test For (Preterism)
(Partial Preterist) Believe The Abomination Of Desolation And Great Tribulation Are Fulfilled, The Second Coming Is Future
(Full Preterist) Believe All Three Events Are Fulfilled.
AoD fulfilled in 167 B.C.
GT started in 70 A.D. - not completely fulfilled until it ends at the start of the time of the Two Witnesses.
Second Coming in future right after the end of the time of the Two Witnesses.
~
The souls under the altar are martyrs from the Dark Ages - the ones they are waiting for are martyrs from the [near?] future.
Revelation 13:1-6 is past history.
Verse 7 is past history and possibly also future.
Revelation 13:8 is future.
~
You have to look at End Times prophecy from God's time frame - not man's -- it is not a short period of time --- it has been unfolding over the last ~2000 years.[/RIGHT]
Matthew Writes A Warning In Matthew 24:15 200+ Years After Your Claimed Fulfillment?
(As Previously Stated) in your view that the AOD was fulfilled in 167BC by Antiochus IV Epiphanes puts you in the (Partial Preterist) camp, on that one event alone.
Antiochus wasn't the AOD, that took place 200+ years (Before) the writing of Matthew 24:15, a simple no Brainer.
Another concern is your claim that the (Great Tribulation) seen in Matthew 24:21 has been ongoing for the past 1950 years?
The scripture clearly teaches that the Great Tribulation will be caused by the Abomination Of Desolation seen in Matthew 24:15, the scripture clearly teaches it's a sudden event, as people flee homes, leave fields and clothes?
The scripture clearly teaches that the time is so bad no flesh could survive, the days are cut short, and will be stopped at the (Second Coming) of Jesus Christ in the heavens.
Gary The World Hasn't Been Experiencing A Great Tribulation Described Below For The Past 1950 Years, (No, Nor Ever Shall Be) let's Be Honest With The scriptural Facts below
Gary it's a fairy tale to teach that the (Great Tribulation) seen below, started in 70AD, and will continue somewhere in the future at the revealing of the (Two Witnesses)
Gary:
1) Daniels Abomination Of Desolation 24:15
2) The Great Tribulation 24:21
3) The Second Coming 24:29-30
They Are All (Future) Events Unfulfilled.
Matthew 24:15-30KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Your test does not define preterism. The word itself already has a meaning:Your Suggesting All Christian's Are Preterist Is A Joke, Big Smiles!
The Three Test Of Preterism, Fulfilled Or Future?
The Holy Bible Teaches All Events Below Are (Future)
1.) Antichrist AOD, Human Man, Literal Future
2.) The Great Tribulation, Literal Future
3.) The Second Coming, Literal Future
Once Again, The Olivet Discourse Is The Test For (Preterism)
(Partial Preterist) Believe The Abomination Of Desolation And Great Tribulation Are Fulfilled, The Second Coming Is Future
(Full Preterist) Believe All Three Events Are Fulfilled.
The term preterism comes from the Latin praeter, which is a prefix denoting that something is "past" or "beyond". Adherents of preterism are known as preterists (source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preterism)
So, instead of being a jackdonkey and repeating your ridiculous "Big Smiles" snark, how about you use the 3-1/2 pounds of gray matter between your ears and consider whether you believe that certain prophesied events have been fulfilled "in the past" or not, such as...
the birth of the Messiah
His suffering and death
His resurrection
If you believe any of these things, you are a partial preterist. If you don't believe any of them, you are not a Christian.
We Will Disagree
Once Again, The Olivet Discourse Is The Test For (Preterism), Matthew Chapter 24 (New Testament)
The Three Test Of Preterism, Fulfilled Or Future?
The Holy Bible Teaches All Events Below Are (Future)
1.) Antichrist AOD, Human Man, Literal Future
2.) The Great Tribulation, Literal Future
3.) The Second Coming, Literal Future
Once Again, The Olivet Discourse Is The Test For (Preterism)
(Partial Preterist) Believe The Abomination Of Desolation And Great Tribulation Are Fulfilled, The Second Coming Is Future
(Full Preterist) Believe All Three Events Are Fulfilled.
I don't subscribe to your definition. You haven't even provided a source, so I must conclude that you invented it yourself.We Will Disagree
Once Again, The Olivet Discourse Is The Test For (Preterism), Matthew Chapter 24 (New Testament)
The Three Test Of Preterism, Fulfilled Or Future?
The Holy Bible Teaches All Events Below Are (Future)
1.) Antichrist AOD, Human Man, Literal Future
2.) The Great Tribulation, Literal Future
3.) The Second Coming, Literal Future
Once Again, The Olivet Discourse Is The Test For (Preterism)
(Partial Preterist) Believe The Abomination Of Desolation And Great Tribulation Are Fulfilled, The Second Coming Is Future
(Full Preterist) Believe All Three Events Are Fulfilled.
Wikipedia: Preterism
The term preterism comes from the Latin praeter, which is a prefix denoting that something is "past" or "beyond".[1] Adherents of preterism are known as preterists. Preterism teaches that either all (full preterism) or a majority (partial preterism) of the Olivet discourse had come to pass by AD 70.
Historically, preterists and non-preterists have generally agreed that the Jesuit Luis de Alcasar (1554–1613) wrote the first systematic preterist exposition of prophecy Vestigatio arcani sensus in Apocalypsi (published in 1614) during the Counter-Reformation.
No need to, I addressed your claim that the AOD in Matthew 24:15 was fulfilled in 167BC by Antiochus IV Epiphanes
I addressed your claim that the Great Tribulation seen in Matthew 24:21 started in 70AD and has been continuously going on for 1950 years and counting.
Matthew Writes A Warning In Matthew 24:15 200+ Years After Your Claimed Fulfillment?
(As Previously Stated) in your view that the AOD was fulfilled in 167BC by Antiochus IV Epiphanes puts you in the (Partial Preterist) camp, on that one event alone.
Antiochus wasn't the AOD, that took place 200+ years (Before) the writing of Matthew 24:15, a simple no Brainer.
Another concern is your claim that the (Great Tribulation) seen in Matthew 24:21 has been ongoing for the past 1950 years?
The scripture clearly teaches that the Great Tribulation will be caused by the Abomination Of Desolation seen in Matthew 24:15, the scripture clearly teaches it's a sudden event, as people flee homes, leave fields and clothes?
The scripture clearly teaches that the time is so bad no flesh could survive, the days are cut short, and will be stopped at the (Second Coming) of Jesus Christ in the heavens.
Gary The World Hasn't Been Experiencing A Great Tribulation Described Below For The Past 1950 Years, (No, Nor Ever Shall Be) let's Be Honest With The scriptural Facts below
Gary it's a fairy tale to teach that the (Great Tribulation) seen below, started in 70AD, and will continue somewhere in the future at the revealing of the (Two Witnesses)
Gary:
1) Daniels Abomination Of Desolation 24:15
2) The Great Tribulation 24:21
3) The Second Coming 24:29-30
They Are All (Future) Events Unfulfilled.
Matthew 24:15-30KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
I don't put anybody in a pigeonhole, Gary teaches that the AOD in the Olivet Discourse Matthew 24:15 was fulfilled in 167BC by Antiochus IV Epiphanes, Gary is in the (Partial Preterist) camp.
That given my assumption that Gary believes in a future second coming of Jesus Christ, Matthew 24:29-30?
Wikipedia: Preterism
The term preterism comes from the Latin praeter, which is a prefix denoting that something is "past" or "beyond".[1] Adherents of preterism are known as preterists. Preterism teaches that either all (full preterism) or a majority (partial preterism) of the Olivet discourse had come to pass by AD 70.
Historically, preterists and non-preterists have generally agreed that the Jesuit Luis de Alcasar (1554–1613) wrote the first systematic preterist exposition of prophecy Vestigatio arcani sensus in Apocalypsi (published in 1614) during the Counter-Reformation.
Stop filling this thread up with this same short speech.No need to, I addressed your claim that the AOD in Matthew 24:15 was fulfilled in 167BC by Antiochus IV Epiphanes
I addressed your claim that the Great Tribulation seen in Matthew 24:21 started in 70AD and has been continuously going on for 1950 years and counting.
Matthew Writes A Warning In Matthew 24:15 200+ Years After Your Claimed Fulfillment?
(As Previously Stated) in your view that the AOD was fulfilled in 167BC by Antiochus IV Epiphanes puts you in the (Partial Preterist) camp, on that one event alone.
Antiochus wasn't the AOD, that took place 200+ years (Before) the writing of Matthew 24:15, a simple no Brainer.
Another concern is your claim that the (Great Tribulation) seen in Matthew 24:21 has been ongoing for the past 1950 years?
The scripture clearly teaches that the Great Tribulation will be caused by the Abomination Of Desolation seen in Matthew 24:15, the scripture clearly teaches it's a sudden event, as people flee homes, leave fields and clothes?
The scripture clearly teaches that the time is so bad no flesh could survive, the days are cut short, and will be stopped at the (Second Coming) of Jesus Christ in the heavens.
Gary The World Hasn't Been Experiencing A Great Tribulation Described Below For The Past 1950 Years, (No, Nor Ever Shall Be) let's Be Honest With The scriptural Facts below
Gary it's a fairy tale to teach that the (Great Tribulation) seen below, started in 70AD, and will continue somewhere in the future at the revealing of the (Two Witnesses)
Gary:
1) Daniels Abomination Of Desolation 24:15
2) The Great Tribulation 24:21
3) The Second Coming 24:29-30
They Are All (Future) Events Unfulfilled.
Matthew 24:15-30KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
If you would go read a few of the posts at the beginning of this thread, you would better understand the core ideas that started this discussion.
For what it is worth:
https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...e-great-tribulation-started-in-70-a-d.187128/