Mark, John and Revelation were likely EDITTED after this date, the evidence on those three is all internal.
Can you please show us the verses that contain the evidence?
Mark, John and Revelation were likely EDITTED after this date, the evidence on those three is all internal.
We can agree, hell froze over maybe. I went to an exhibit several years ago. Here it is "Ink & Blood: Dead Sea Scrolls to Gutenberg includes authentic Dead Sea Scrolls, the origins of written language and a working life-size reproduction of the most significant invention of the last millennium, Gutenberg’s Printing Press with moveable type. Totaling more than 100 artifacts, the collection includes 5,000-year-old clay tablets, Hebrew Torahs, ancient Greek texts, Medieval Latin manuscripts, original pages from Gutenberg’s Bible, and rare English printed Bibles."
It was something amazing to see in person, especially the Dead Sea scrolls. There wasn't enough time to read everything but it was still impressive. The only other thing I have seen that impressive is the Ark in KY.
If you can,visit The Museum of the Bible in D.C.We can agree, hell froze over maybe. I went to an exhibit several years ago. Here it is "Ink & Blood: Dead Sea Scrolls to Gutenberg includes authentic Dead Sea Scrolls, the origins of written language and a working life-size reproduction of the most significant invention of the last millennium, Gutenberg’s Printing Press with moveable type. Totaling more than 100 artifacts, the collection includes 5,000-year-old clay tablets, Hebrew Torahs, ancient Greek texts, Medieval Latin manuscripts, original pages from Gutenberg’s Bible, and rare English printed Bibles."
It was something amazing to see in person, especially the Dead Sea scrolls. There wasn't enough time to read everything but it was still impressive. The only other thing I have seen that impressive is the Ark in KY.
If you can,visit The Museum of the Bible in D.C.
https://youtube.com/@museumofthebible?si=uK0aR0Gl-4b7-4DQ
Can you please show us the verses that contain the evidence?
Mark is known to have four different endings in various ancient manuscripts, the first ends with the women at the tomb, Mark 16:8, John has two recorded endings, John 20:30-31 and John 21:24-25.
And if you want to look at Acts, do you really believe that it is just coincidence that events paralleled accounts from Euripides, Homer, Virgil, all well-known classical works. and local legend when people just happened to be in that same area, as well as just happening to have other events suggestive of Vespasian as well as events with very unusual names for the time, but names well known in classical literature? Yes, it is possible, but do you want to call it probable? And then consider that it is impossible to reconcile what Acts records Paul doing at times with what Paul says he was doing at those times. (Paul, "I was not there at that time", Acts, "Oh yes you were").
This (C) was also a tempting runner up option after A and H for me. The problem is though while it is true that Jesus laid down his life as a sacrifice, he knew he would be crucified long before the crucifixion happened, that doesn't absolve the world of being guilty of their sins nor of their degrees of complicity in killing Jesus. Magenta made a good point last page, Jesus is the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world. It's because sin exists in this world and was practiced and fostered that the neccessity of a sacrifice exists in the first place, which brings us back to option A.
I am familiar with the alternative readings that you mentioned.
The existence of alternative readings in NT manuscripts should not be a surprise to anyone.
The NT books were not copied under the same discipline as the Hebrew OT text and "mistakes" both accidental and deliberate happened.
Most of these were minor and easily recognized and not re-copied.
If for example 1000 readings agree but one has an omition, common sense tells us to go with the 1000.
We have a long historic record of agreeing texts and translations based on the Greek readings that later became known as the Textus Receptus.
Two alternative Greek texts have become matters of controversy since 1881, when the Wescott and Hort Greek text was compiled using readings from them. They are: Codex Sinaticus (found in 1844 at a Catholic monastery) and Codex Vaticanus.
neither of these were ever in widespread use before this time, but Critics that support them do so on the basis of their age.
They are 4th Century documents.
The variant readings used in the Wescott/Hort text are mostly in the form of omitions, and some of them obscure the deity of Christ.
This suggests the possibility of deliberation.
The Wescott/Hort text BTW is used as the foundation of some of our English translations.
Your case against the book of Acts when compared to classical literature is new to me, and at this point in time I can neither agree with it or debate it.
Is there disagreement with Acts account of Paul's life with any other of Paul's writing?
Can you show us where?
To make it simple, in 2 Corinthians 11:32, Paul has to escape Damascus because Arabs are trying to capture him after he had gone to Arabia and was on his way back following his conversion. In Acts 9:23-25, he has to escape Jews in Damascus after preaching in Damascus after his conversion but before going anywhere else. This would be reconcilable as two different events except that in Galatians 1:17, Paul claims he did not go to Damascus until after returning from Arabia and will later claim he only went to Damascus one time. So, one trip to Damascus, when was it and who tried to capture him, was it immediately after conversion and an attempt by Jews or was it some indefinite time after conversion and an attempted capture by Arabs? Which version do we believe, Paul's or Luke's?
I think we are having some issues here in the forum. And I believe it is because of some long held beliefs that are not totally true and some are flat out myths. Before I post what I believe is the truth I would like to take a poll and see where we all stand on this question. I feel like many of the threads we have going in the BDF and other places flow from this one question. I believe it's a serious question to be answered and I'm looking forward to the results of the poll. Thank you for taking part.
To make it simple, in 2 Corinthians 11:32, Paul has to escape Damascus because Arabs are trying to capture him after he had gone to Arabia and was on his way back following his conversion. In Acts 9:23-25, he has to escape Jews in Damascus after preaching in Damascus after his conversion but before going anywhere else. This would be reconcilable as two different events except that in Galatians 1:17, Paul claims he did not go to Damascus until after returning from Arabia and will later claim he only went to Damascus one time. So, one trip to Damascus, when was it and who tried to capture him, was it immediately after conversion and an attempt by Jews or was it some indefinite time after conversion and an attempted capture by Arabs? Which version do we believe, Paul's or Luke's?
the question is who killed God - not whether mankind is culpable for our sin.
and the answer is clear: God cannot be killed; He laid down His own life. no one has power over Him to take His life away, that is impossible.
I don't understand why you think 2 Corinthians 11:32 and Acts 9:23-25 are describing two different events
It had to be two different events because Aretas was an Arab king and antagonistic towards Jews, so Paul had to have had trouble with one group or the other, the two groups would not have worked together.
It's highly improbable that Paul was lowered in a basket from a rope. What evidence do you have that the king was antagonistic towards the Jews. Kings generally like people with wealth
What makes me think that Aretas did not like the Jews? Maybe that he sided with the Romans against them when the Jews had a brief rebellion in 1 CE or that he and Antipas had a conflict that upset Rome in the 30's, one that many scholars suggest was the event that caused Paul to flee Damascus. The conflict between Herod the Great and Aretas's father was before Aretas was king, so we will ignore that one as well as the history of conflicts between the Hasmonean kings of Judah and the earlier kings of Aretas's line.
I think we are having some issues here in the forum. And I believe it is because of some long held beliefs that are not totally true and some are flat out myths. Before I post what I believe is the truth I would like to take a poll and see where we all stand on this question. I feel like many of the threads we have going in the BDF and other places flow from this one question. I believe it's a serious question to be answered and I'm looking forward to the results of the poll. Thank you for taking part.
When the governor does not like the Jews, he also might well take the bribe and forget to tell the guards to watch the gates to prevent Paul from leaving. That would be an easy way to make money and still keep the Jews in place. You are grasping at straws though, as this is merely one place where Acts differs with Paul.
In science one does not make field advancing discoveries by following what long-established science says, but rather by looking at the points that are known but do not fit. I have spent a long time looking at the known points in the New Testament that do not fit, and have astounded Seminary New Testament professors with my understandings and get told either that I am clearly wrong because I differ with traditional understandings, or that while I trash traditional understandings, I make far more sense and knit the whole of the New Testament together far better than they have ever seen before. And before you ask, I am well into writing a book on these points and others,