Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[brightfame52]

renewed

You want to make faith "required under the Law"? Have at it. At that point, you change Rom 4:4 and you do not receive the reward through grace ... you receive of debt. Have fun with that!

Jesus said it[human faith] was a weighty matter of the Law that you cant left undone Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

Your complete and utter misinterpretation of Scripture does not affect me in the least.

However, you are in deep trouble since you believe "human faith" is "faith must be in accordance with the law":

You are in trouble friend since you say all men naturally have been given Faith, and that its required for Justification before God. Since you believe that, you are required to keep the whole Law, not just a part of it. And I have news for you, it aint happening.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

faith is faith. There is only one faith.

And you make human faith your righteousness before God. Thats self righteousness. The Faith God gave me points to Christ as my righteousness, thats the difference between you and I.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

nope ... your continual manipulation of Scripture in order to substantiate your erroneous belief that "faith is required under the law" and "faith must be in accordance with the law" is nothing but balderdash.

Oh no, its your manipulation of scripture that has backed you up into this corner, so since you teach that human faith is required for Justification before God, you put yourself under a covenant of works, a law covenant. See man in Adam was required to believe and obey God for life. Thats the natural man.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

All you have told me is your erroneous dogma. here's a newsflash for ya, brightfame52 ... your erroneous dogma is not Scripture.

Romans 4:

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

I told you that the it was Christs Righteousness imputed, Christs Righteousness is Imputed. No you want to say it means Abrahams Faith is his righteousness, so you believe in self righteousness because of your human faith. Thats being under the Law. You are snared my friend

 

[brightfame52]

renewd

You sure did when you claimed "faith is required under the law" and "faith must be in accordance with the law".

Faith is required under the Law, Jesus specified that in Matt 23:23. Faith and Love to God are required by the Law. In fact in the Lukan account of Matt 23:23 Jesus substitutes Faith with Love to/of God, observe Lk 11:42

But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

So for your justification before God, you are required to have Faith in God, Love God and your neighbor as yourself.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

You saying Jesus said "human faith is of the law" is wholly due to your manipulation of Scripture. Quit reading Scripture through the lens of your erroneous dogma.

Im witnessing to what Jesus said out of His own Mouth Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

And Jesus uses the definite article, THE LAW, so He is definitely speaking of the Moral Law of God.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

The sole purpose of the law is to bring mankind to Messiah because justification is, always has been, and always will be, through faith ....

The Law brings the regenerate/spiritual man to Faith in Christ, but you are speaking of the natural man, the natural man is required to obey the Law for Salvation. The natural man is under law not grace . The natural man that Christ didnt die for, is bound to the law as long as he lives, there is no faith in Christ for the natural man, in fact the Gospel is hidden from the natural man.

 

[brightfame52]

Read the verses again, brightfame52:

John 1:

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


vs 12 – first they received Him ... actively laid hold on Him (the Lord Jesus Christ);

vs 12 – then they are given power to become sons of God


Note that the verses do not say they "had been born of God" before they "received/believed on Christ" as you erroneously claim.


What John 1:12-13 tells us is that when the Lord Jesus Christ came to His own (speaking of when He lived in His physical body) those who "actively [laid] hold of to take or receive" the Lord Jesus Christ were given power to become the sons of God.

Please note the verse does not state that those who "actively lay hold of to take or receive" the Lord Jesus Christ are given "power to believe" as you erroneously claim.

Those who "actively lay hold of to take or receive" are given power to become the sons of God.

So your conclusion concerning John 1:12-13 is faulty and you have yet to prove that "a person is born again prior to believing the Gospel of Christ"

Scripture does not teach "that a person is born again prior to believing the Gospel of Christ":

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise

After you heard, you believed.

After you believed, you were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise (born again)
.

Again John is saying in Jn 1:12-13 the reason for some receiving/believing on the Name of Jesus was that they had been born of God. He taught the same thing again in 1 Jn 5:1

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

Is born of God is in the perfect tense, the one believing that Jesus is the Christ, had been born of God !

Man naturally cant believe on Jesus, its impossible Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Drawing and born of God are the same !

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

Romans 4:5 But

to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness

Its not the verses that teach faith is a work, you do, by making it an human condition for Justification before God !

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

Since it is God Who justifies, and I believe in Him, clearly I am not believing in "my works".

Yet you believe you are justified by God because of your human faith. Thats works

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

Since I base justification on that which God clearly states is not works, and I believe in God Who justifies, then it is you who needs to seek out from God what God means when He tells us faith is not works and what God means when He tells us to believe on Him Who justifies and He will impute righteousness to those who believe.

Thats the problem, you dont base Justification on what the bible clearly states, but you base it on your human faith, a quality found in you. Thats works, and respect of persons.
.

 

[brightfame52]

According to Scripture, righteousness is imputed when a person believes:

Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Scripture does not state "before Abraham believe God it was counted unto him for righteousness".
.

Sins are forgiven through the Blood of Christ, Eph 1:7

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

It had nothing to do with a person believing. Many people were forgiven for their sins before they were ever born. Christ had died for them 2000 yrs ago

 

[Sipsey]

renewed



Again, God Justified the ungodly, when in a ungodly state, man is faithless and an enemy in his mind, so God doesnt Justify the ungodly because of their believing faith, they dont have any, but God Justifys them because He sees them as righteous in Christ, and thats what they are given Faith to believe. Faith isnt their righteousness, but Christ is, the object of their faith.

You erroneously believe that Faith is their righteousness, instead of the object of their Faith, Christ.

Sins are forgiven through the Blood of Christ, Eph 1:7

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

It had nothing to do with a person believing. Many people were forgiven for their sins before they were ever born. Christ had died for them 2000 yrs ago

You really are confused. Your definition of predestination is off the rails, which means all your theology is tainted.

 

[brightfame52]

According to Scripture, righteousness is imputed when a person believes:

Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Scripture does not state "before Abraham believe God it was counted unto him for righteousness".
.

In Rom 4:3 what is the IT that Abraham believed and it was counted to him for righteousness ?

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

Both Romans 8:33 and Isaiah 53:6 apply to the believer.

Isaiah 53:6 applies because the verse relates to all descendants of Adam (all mankind) … All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Romans 8:33 applies to the believer because the verse is speaking of those who have the firstfruits of the Spirit (Rom 8:23) ... which is to be born again ... no one can lay anything to the charge of the born again one.

Those who reject Messiah, the Lord Jesus Christ, will have no excuse because God has provided to mankind all that is needed in order to live from faith to faith

Sure Rom 8:33-34 and Isa 53:6 applies to believers, and it applies to them as unbelievers, as well as any unbeliever for whom Christ died. The sin of unbelief cannot condemn any sinner for whom Christ died, because that sin along with all their other sins, had been laid upon Christ, and He satisfied Gods Law and Justice for them. So even while unbelieving, ungodly, enemies, they are Justified from all sin, including unbelief. Do you deny Christ died for the sin, iniquity of unbelief ?

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

if, as you claim, "God doesn’t knock on the door of the wicked, deceitful natural human heart", then there would be no reason to "resist the Holy Ghost" as stated in Acts 7:51 because (according to you) the Holy Spirit "doesn't knock on the door of the wicked, deceitful, natural human heart".

No He doesnt, Acts 7 51 says nothing about God knocking on the dead sinners heart. It actually is proof that the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God, it shows how the unregenerate natural heart and ears respond to the Gospel . They resist the Truth. Until one is born again of the Spirit and given a new heart and ears, they resist the truth as those unregenerate men did.

 

[brightfame52]

Excerpt from "What is the unpardonable sin / unforgivable sin?"

The only unpardonable sin today is that of continued unbelief. There is no pardon for a person who dies in his rejection of Christ. The Holy Spirit is at work in the world, convicting the unsaved of sin, righteousness, and judgment (John 16:8). If a person resists that conviction and remains unrepentant, then he is choosing hell over heaven. “Without faith it is impossible to please God” (Hebrews 11:6), and the object of faith is Jesus (Acts 16:31). There is no forgiveness for someone who dies without faith in Christ. God has provided for our salvation in His Son (John 3:16). Forgiveness is found exclusively in Jesus (John 14:6). To reject the only Savior is to be left with no means of salvation; to reject the only pardon is, obviously, unpardonable.

No sin can be laid to the charge of Gods elect. Not even the sin of unbelief. The only people who die unrepentant and in unbelief are the non elect who Christ didnt love, nor did He die for them, thats why they remain unchanged.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

the god of this world in 2 Cor 4:3-4 is speaking of satan, who is the prince of this world, nevertheless, he blinds the minds of the Lost.

now you're making satan more powerful than the gospel (which is the power of God unto salvation – Rom 1:16).

As long as one is in a unregenerate spiritually lost condition, they are blinded and the Gospel is hid from them.

r-i-g-h-t ... cuz God's Word is so ineffective against the all powerful satan.

the unregenerate man is in a permanent lost condition and blind to the Gospel.

and under your rendering of Scripture, they'll remain lost because you teach the lies of satan ... that the gospel is "hidden wisdom to the natural man" ... that mankind "do not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners".

brightfame52, your erroneous dogma is crumbling at your feet. With every feeble attempt you make to prop up your dogma, the light of Scripture exposes your error. Stop messing around and believe God's Word just as written ... and quit teaching satan's lies. You're handling the word of God deceitfully.

2 Corinthians 4:

1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;

2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.


With every post you submit, you evidence that you are not part of this ministry ... you still have not received mercy. Turn your heart to the Lord Jesus Christ ...

Romans 10:

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
.

 

[brightfame52]

Those whom God laid their iniquities upon Christ, not only did He lay their punishment unto Him, but the very iniquties themselves, by imputation Isa 53:6

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

This was such a thorough laying on, so that it was said that He was made Sin 2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

He became the sinner, but by Imputation, and now because of this, no matter what, those sinners stand acquitted and absolved of all sin and unrighteousness before God ! And this is before they believe and while they are yet being ungodly, because it had nothing to do with what they did or did not do, but solely upon what Christ has done for them ! 12