Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[reneweddaybyday]

See I have never denied Justification by Faith

Then according to your own dogma, you are justified by works of the law:

Jesus here specifically Identifies Faith as one of the weightier matters of the Law ? And that its something done !

​

​

Justification by doing one of the weightier matters of the Law and there is no escaping that conclusion

​

And just for clarification, I said:

One issue with your dogma is you believe faith on the part of mankind is "works" and I have shown you that God specifically tells us faith is not works.

​

In response to my statement, you say that I said you "denied Justification by Faith".

I did not say you "denied Justification by Faith".

I said "you believe faith on the part of mankind is 'works' "

So respond to what I actually said. Do not veer off track to your made up non-issue.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Nope. I just read the Scriptures and believe what the Author of Scripture has written:

You read scripture without understanding and corrupt the word of Truth, you turn a grace given in Salvation, the Gift of Faith, you turn it into a quality found in the fallen dead flesh of man, and make its performance a condition of salvation, thats glorying in the flesh.

All I am doing is holding you to the truth of Scripture and shining a light on the error of your dogma.

Since righteousness is through faith (vs 22) and since we are justified freely by God's grace (vs 24), then it is error on your part to conclude faith is a "work" on the part of man.

Yet you deny Justification by Grace and condition it on the act of man, mans act of Faith, the unregenerate, spiritually dead sinner, you condition Justification before God on his or her faith. So you deny Justification by Grace.

Nope. You project onto me the error of your dogma.

Again, since

1) Romans 3:22 clearly states righteousness is through faith; and

2) Romans 3:24 clearly states we are justified freely by God's grace; then

3) It is error on your part to conclude that faith is a "work" on the part of man

Please follow Scripture ... let go of the error contained in your dogma.

Romans 3:

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

I know that is your position. However, if "Faith is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22" and a person must be born again of Holy Spirit in order to have "Faith" which "is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22", you've got a person born again in order to have the "Faith" which "is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22" which allows the person to believe the gospel in order to be born again. You've got the cart before the horse.

And so you have faith as the fruit or work of the flesh, therefore conditioning Justification on the fruit or work of the flesh.

Intentionally obtuse. You continue to steer the discussion to your "talking points" rather than address the issue raised:

Please focus on the issue:

If "Faith is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22" and a person must be born again of Holy Spirit in order to have "Faith" which "is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22", you've got a person born again in order to have the "Faith" which "is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22" which allows the person to believe the gospel in order to be born again. You've got the cart before the horse.​

Let me make this simpler for you:

If

1) faith is fruit of the Spirit; and

2) a person must be born again of Holy Spirit in order to have Faith; then

3) in your scenario, the person is born again before he/she believes the gospel by which he/she is born again.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Which truth you deny, because you say man in the flesh can please God with human faith

There is only one faith, brightfame52.

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

The faith the hindu utilizes to believe in brahma is the same faith the born again one utilizes to believe the gospel of Christ (which is the power of God unto salvation).

The issue is in Whom do you have faith?

The more you believe a lie, the worse it is for you.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Antichrist simply means against Christ

The word "antichrist" is translated from two Greek words ... the word antí which means "in place of" and the word Xristós or Christ

antichrist is whatever we hold "in place of Christ".

Scripture tells us "antichrist" is one who denies that Jesus is the Christ (Messiah) and one who denies the Father and the Son:

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.


and/or denies that Jesus Christ came into the world in the flesh:

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

You deny that His death alone Justified before God those He died for

"those He died for"

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Yes it is what you believe even though you scared to publicly admit it word for word. Yet you believe the fallen human flesh of man has this Faith in them that pleases God, and when they use it and believe, God will Justify them. Tell me you dont believe that.

What you say I believe is not the same as what I believe, no matter how many times nor how vociferously you repeat what you believe I believe.

I have told you what I believe and still you misrepresent what I believe because you are either unable to comprehend or you are intentionally obtuse.


I believe the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of the whole world as stated in Scripture:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

I also believe God created, formed, made mankind and included faith within all mankind. When mankind misutilizes the faith God placed inherently within mankind and believes (has faith) in a lie, mankind rejects God.

Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.


vs 18 – the words "who hold" are translated from the Greek word katechō which means to hinder, restrain. Some folks hinder the truth ... restrain the truth.

vs 19 – God reveals Himself so that all mankind may know Him. Those who do not hinder/restrain the truth live by faith.

vs 20 – all of creation attests to the eternal power and Godhead. Those who hinder/restrain the truth are without excuse.

vs 21 – they knew God and turned from God to their own empty reasonings. As a result, their foolish heart becomes darkened.


This is not the first time I have explained this to you, brightfame52. So, please, quit with your accusations that I am "scared to publicly admit word for word" what it is I believe.

And if/when you need to explain what it is I believe, just copy and paste from this post so that you accurately tell me what it is I believe.

In other words, you continuously read what others write (including the Author of Scripture) through the lens of your erroneous dogma. And your dogma is in error to the point where you cannot comprehend the simplest truth.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I believe the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of the whole world as stated in Scripture (John 1:29, John 3:16-17, 1 John 2:2).

You believe a lie

Nope. Here's the truth of Scripture with no added words to the text:


John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


Quit manipulating Scripture to align it with your erroneous dogma. Align your dogma to Scripture. Wherever your dogma does not align with Scripture, get rid of the error. Do not manipulate the text of Scripture to conform it to your dogma.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

See thats your problem, you not understanding the things of God, interpret Paul here as saying mans act of faith is counted as righteousness. So you believe the unregenerate sinner, dead in sin, in the flesh, has a faith righteousness that justified them before God. So you believe man is Justified by his own righteousness which is heresy !

brightfame52, you continuously misrepresent what I tell you I believe.

Here is what I said:

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.​

​

The word "believeth" is also in the present tense.​

​

The verse states that the person believes on Him [God] who justifies the ungodly. The person knows he/she is ungodly and yet believes in the God Who justifies him/her and his/her faith is counted for righteousness.​

​

Mankind is wholly undeserving of God's mercy, grace, lovingkindness. We all know this. And yet, God, in His great mercy, grace, lovingkindness justifies that undeserving person when he/she believes on Him [God]who justifies the ungodly​

God is the One Who justifies. God sees the faith of the person who believes in Him and God imputes righteousness on that person. That is not me justifying myself. I know I am wholly undeserving. I know I am ungodly. However, I believe Him Who promised. That you have a problem with God imputing righteousness to those who believe is something you are going to have to straighten out with God. Let Him work in your heart to reveal to you how and why salvation is by grace through faith and how and why faith is not works.

The difference between you and I, my Faith sees Christ as my righteousness, having been imputed, you see your faith counted to you as righteousness, big difference.

Again, you telling me what I believe is not the same as what I actually believe, no matter how often nor how vociferously you repeat your lies.

You see everything through the lens of your erroneous dogma so you cannot even fathom what I believe ... no matter how many times I explain.

God is the One Who imputes righteousness.

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Your problem is you believe faith = works and Scripture is quite clear that faith ≠ works. You have even gone so far as to erroneously state that the Lord Jesus Christ "specifically Identifies Faith as ... Law". What a crock!!!
.

 

[brightfame52]

Read the verse again, brightfame52:

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.


The gospel is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe.

Read the verse just as the Author of Scripture wrote it. Do not attempt to align Scripture to your erroneous dogma. Wherever your dogma does not align with Scripture, rid yourself of your dogma.
.

The Gospel is the Power of God, it states it right here Rom 1:16

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it[The Gospel of Christ] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

So thats why a person believes, because of the power of God.

Men dont believe the Gospel because of their freewill, they believe the Gospel because of Gods Power !

 

[brightfame52]

renew

The gospel is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe.

Correct, they believe as a result of the power of God

Eph 1:19

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

I am not the one who is manipulating Romans 1:16.

Yes you are. You are making the power of God dependent on mans believing, whereas mans believing is dependent on the power of God. Men are made believers in the day of Gods power Ps 110:3

3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes, all who read this thread know you are not interested in what Scripture says.
.

Its not what scripture says, its you that designates Faith as a work, a condition man must meet in order for God to justify him. Scripture doesnt do that.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Correct, they believe as a result of the power of God

Eph 1:19

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

Typical of Calvinistic confused thinking, believing doesn't come from God, as this poster keep repeating. Believing comes from the heart, as Paul wrote in Rom 10:10. Not from God.

And Eph 1:19 doesn't say that God's power causes a person to believe. Rather, Paul wrote clearly that the "exceeding greatness of God's power is TO us who believe".

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The gospel is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe.

Correct, they believe as a result of the power of God

Intentionally obtuse.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

More manipulation of Scripture in your vain attempt to force Scripture to align with your erroneous dogma.

The gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation.

Romans 1:16 does not state the gospel of Christ is the power of God unto believing, as you incorrectly claim.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The gospel is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe.

Eph 1:19

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

So, you finally realize you cannot force your erroneous dogma onto what is written in Romans 1:16 (i.e. that the gospel of Chris is the power of God unto salvation ... not the power of God unto believing as you incorrectly claim).

Instead of believing God's Word as written, you now try to force your dogma onto another verse of Scripture. Is there no end to your manipulation of Scripture?

Ephesians 1:19 is part of a prayer by Paul in which Paul prays for the believer who, according to Ephesians 1:13 trusted in Christ after hearing the Word of truth, the gospel of salvation and after believing was sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession:

Ephesians 1:

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints, 16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers


Paul prays that believers would know:

vs 18 – what is the hope of His calling;

vs 18 – what is the exceeding riches of the glory of His inheritance;

vs 19 – what is the exceeding greatness of His power to those who believe (in accordance with vs 13).


Please read Scripture with discernment and quit trying to make Scripture align with your erroneous dogma. Wherever your dogma does not align with Scripture, get rid of your error!!!


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I am not the one who is manipulating Romans 1:16

Yes you are.

Nope. I read the verse just as written. You, on the other hand, change the verse in your effort to prop up your erroneous dogma.

You follow in the footsteps of Eve.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Its not what scripture says, its you that designates Faith as a work,

Nope. More of your projecting onto me your erroneous dogma because you believe faith = works (even though Scripture is quite clear in stating that faith ≠ works).

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

a condition man must meet in order for God to justify him. Scripture doesnt do that.

You don't believe Scripture because Scripture tells us Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Scripture also tells us Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


I didn't write Scripture ... the Author of Scripture is God. Since you have a problem with faith not being works and yet mankind being justified by faith, you need to go to the Author and ask Him to work in your heart to reveal to you. However, in order to comprehend, you must be willing to let go of what does not hold true and trust God with your whole heart.
.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes, all who read this thread know you are not interested in what Scripture says.
.

Then you and all who read this thread and agree with you are deceived. God knows !

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

I deny that you are "saying truth is found within the context of scripture" because you continuously rip a verse from the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed the verse.

You can deny it all you want, but truth is found within any given scripture context !

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God,

which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Refers to the Elect, and they have righteousness imputed, they are Justified.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

here's a newsflash for ya, brightfame52 ... the Lord Jesus Christ arose from the dead is truth even if no one believes it.

The reason the Lord Jesus Christ arose from the dead is because is was not possible that death could hold Him:

Acts 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

The justification of mankind is wholly through God's mercy, grace, lovingkindness. Death had no power to hold the Lord Jesus Christ.

Again, those who Christ died for, and Justified, it will be evidenced when they believe. and believing is the result of having been born again. No one believes but the Justified born again person !
.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

I believe you believe that.

Yet thats what you believe, that believing is a condition the dead, unregenerate sinner does in order for God to Justify them. Thats works all day long