More rationalization for your bad behavior ... just move along and quit accusing believers.
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Who Justifieth the Ungodly
- Thread starter brightfame52
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every single person who rejects the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be condemned ...
The only unpardonable sin today is that of continued unbelief. There is no pardon for a person who dies in his rejection of Christ. The Holy Spirit is at work in the world, convicting the unsaved of sin, righteousness, and judgment (John 16:8). If a person resists that conviction and remains unrepentant, then he is choosing hell over heaven. “Without faith it is impossible to please God” (Hebrews 11:6), and the object of faith is Jesus (Acts 16:31). There is no forgiveness for someone who dies without faith in Christ. God has provided for our salvation in His Son (John 3:16). Forgiveness is found exclusively in Jesus (John 14:6). To reject the only Savior is to be left with no means of salvation; to reject the only pardon is, obviously, unpardonable.
.So sad you do not believe the whole world is the whole world.
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
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I believe John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
I do not believe your rendering of the verse which you submitted in Post #1393. You said the world of John 1:29 has no sin upon it.
I replied in Post #1407 that the world of John 1:29 is the same world we live on in our day and time and if there were no "sin upon it" there would be no need for us to look forward to the world that is to come.
In fact, Romans 8:22 tells us all of creation groans in pain due to the fall of Adam:
Romans 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
brightfame52 said:
more nonsense from your erroneous dogma..
We were discussing Romans 5:12.
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned
Romans 5:12 tells us that through Adam, sin entered the world.
The verse does not state (as you claim) that anyone "sinned in Adam".
Romans 5:12 tells us that death passes to all because all sin.
The verse does not state (as you claim) that anyone sinned "before they had a physical being".
Furthermore, in Post #1409, I provided Scripture which indicates no one is put to death for the sin of any other person. The Lord Jesus Christ took the sin of the whole world upon Himself, gave His life for the sin of the whole world, and He rose again the third day because it was not possible for death to hold Him:
Acts 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Ask a "Yes or No" question and you'll get a "Yes or No" answer.brightfame52 said:
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Why are you reluctant to speak up for what you believe ? Dont you believe people who Christ died for, nevertheless will die in their sins and unbelief ? Yes or No, be not afraid
Sorry the sinners Christ died for cannot be condemned, Christ has taken away their sins which condemned them, and instead their sins condemned Him, and He died the cursed penalty for them. Rejecting Christ is one f many sins Christ died for, for His People. If Christ didnt die for people rejecting Him, then how can anyone be saved from it, since all men naturally reject Christ ? Jn 6:65
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
You cannot possibly believe Jn 1:29 since you believe people of that world will die in their sins.I believe John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
I do not believe your rendering of the verse which you submitted in Post #1393. You said the world of John 1:29 has no sin upon it.
I replied in Post #1407 that the world of John 1:29 is the same world we live on in our day and time and if there were no "sin upon it" there would be no need for us to look forward to the world that is to come.
In fact, Romans 8:22 tells us all of creation groans in pain due to the fall of Adam:
Romans 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
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And I have been telling you that all descendants of Adam have faith. All have the capacity to believe. Some choose not to believe. They reject God.
I have shown you from Romans 1 that some suppress the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18) even though God has revealed Himself (Rom 1:19). That is why they are without excuse (Rom 1:20).
In your rendering of Scripture, God withholds that which is needed from some. Because God has withheld, God does not reveal Himself to them. Those from whom God has withheld have an excuse come judgment day because (1) God withheld what was needed (faith) and (2) God never revealed Himself to them (because, according to you, He only reveals Himself to "the elect").
Romans 1:
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [Greek katechō = suppress, restrain] the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse
Your rendering of Scripture is in opposition to what is written in Scripture.
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Well at least we've gotten this far ...
You seem to believe that there is "a faith" that "man naturally has" and another faith "which man naturally doesnt have". According to Eph 4:5, there is only one faith.brightfame52 said:
As far as Galatians 5, the born again one either lives his/her life in light of who he/she is in Adam or lives his/her life in light of who he/she is in Christ.
When the born again one walks according to the flesh, the result in his/her life will be the fleshly lusts shown in Gal 5:19-21.
When the born again one walks according to the Spirit, the result in his/her life will be love, joy, pace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance.
That is how the born again one knows if he/she has turned from the Lord Jesus Christ to live according to the flesh ... by the "fruit" seen in his/her life. If we see that we have the works of the flesh exhibited in our life, we know we have turned from the Lord to live according to the flesh. Scripture calls this the "old man" (Rom 6:6, Eph 4:22, Col 3:9) and we are instructed to put off the old man (Eph 4:22, Col 3:9), and put on the new man (Eph 4:24, Col 3:10),
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You have finally agreed that all mankind has faith (Post #1427):
So the question is not "do you have faith"?
The question is "in what ... better in Whom ... do you have faith"?
If we have faith in a lie, that does us no good.
The atheist places his/her faith in the fact that there is no God. And the atheist will suffer the consequence of having faith in this lie.
The polytheist places his/her faith in the fact that there are many gods and goddesses. Again, those who do so will suffer the consequence of having faith in this lie.
The believer places his/her faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
The Lord Jesus Christ died for all descendants of Adam ... the world ... the whole world:brightfame52 said:
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
When a person places his her faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, he/she receives the everlasting life promised in John 3:16. The moment that person believes, his/her sins are taken away as stated in John 1:29.
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All dont have Faith with regard to Salvation 2 Thess 3:2
2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.
But each sinner Christ died for, and Justified, they are given Faith by the Spirit of Christ, for the just shall live by Faith.
Mans natural faith is the flesh, its unprofitable in the things of God.
No we dont agree, all mankind doesnt have Spiritual Faith, I never said that, neither does scripture 2 Thess 3:2
2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.
You are becoming more and more unreasonable friend.
The time of their Justification before God ? 2
Before those Christ died for ever believe a thing, and while they are by nature children of wrath Eph 2:3 Yet in the Knowledge of God, those for whom He died were Justified before God, when within Himself He had already determined not to impute sin unto them, that it should be imputed to Christ and that He should die for their sins, and so it is revealed in the word of reconciliation 2 Cor 5:19
19 To wit, that God was in Christ [In the Eternal Purpose Eph 3:11], reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
By this, God in His Mind had determined ages and ages ago, from everlasting, to inflict Eternal Vengeance and Justice for their sins on Christ, but not only that, He correlatively determined to accept them as Righteous, having bestowed upon them or clothed them with the Righteousness of His Son, so is the implication of 2 Cor 5:21
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
All these known Transactions where known and affirmed in the Mind of God from before the foundation Acts 15:18
18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
Ps 33:11
11 The counsel of the Lord standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations.
Would not these things be considered the Thoughts [intentions, purposes, designs] of His Heart ? When would have these thoughts originated in the Mind of the Eternal One ?
Isa 14:24
The Lord of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:
Before those Christ died for ever believe a thing, and while they are by nature children of wrath Eph 2:3 Yet in the Knowledge of God, those for whom He died were Justified before God, when within Himself He had already determined not to impute sin unto them, that it should be imputed to Christ and that He should die for their sins, and so it is revealed in the word of reconciliation 2 Cor 5:19
19 To wit, that God was in Christ [In the Eternal Purpose Eph 3:11], reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
By this, God in His Mind had determined ages and ages ago, from everlasting, to inflict Eternal Vengeance and Justice for their sins on Christ, but not only that, He correlatively determined to accept them as Righteous, having bestowed upon them or clothed them with the Righteousness of His Son, so is the implication of 2 Cor 5:21
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
All these known Transactions where known and affirmed in the Mind of God from before the foundation Acts 15:18
18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
Ps 33:11
11 The counsel of the Lord standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations.
Would not these things be considered the Thoughts [intentions, purposes, designs] of His Heart ? When would have these thoughts originated in the Mind of the Eternal One ?
Isa 14:24
The Lord of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:
The time of their Justification before God ? 3
Justification is simply by the will of God; some things are so simply because its the Will of God to be so; Paul wrote at times 2 Cor 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:
Eph 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
Col 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother,
2 Tim 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,
And since we know that it is God who Justifieth Rom 8:33
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Then those whom He Justifieth are so according to His Will; Now in this Will of God, it has been from before the world began, and His Will not to punish the Elect for their sins, this must be because in His Eternal Purpose in Christ, He was appointed by the Will of God to die for their sins from before the foundation 1 Pet 1:20
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
The fact that He was foreordained before the foundation, makes manifest God's Will before the foundation !
Christ according to the will of God in the Eternal Purpose was slain already for their sins Rev 13:8
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
By His will He redeemed them from the curse of the Law Gal 3:13 and from its punishment.
By this decretive will alone, those Christ should die for are in the Mind and Will of God Justified from all punishment and wrath 1 Thess 1:10 due to their sins, beginning in adam their natural federal head;
God's absolute will not to punish them Christ in time would die for, is the essence of Him Justifying them in His Own Mind; This is True because that which was in God's Mind to secure the Elect from His Wrath, in that they were discharged from their sins and punishment due, can rightly be called Justification before God ! 11
Justification is simply by the will of God; some things are so simply because its the Will of God to be so; Paul wrote at times 2 Cor 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:
Eph 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
Col 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother,
2 Tim 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,
And since we know that it is God who Justifieth Rom 8:33
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Then those whom He Justifieth are so according to His Will; Now in this Will of God, it has been from before the world began, and His Will not to punish the Elect for their sins, this must be because in His Eternal Purpose in Christ, He was appointed by the Will of God to die for their sins from before the foundation 1 Pet 1:20
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
The fact that He was foreordained before the foundation, makes manifest God's Will before the foundation !
Christ according to the will of God in the Eternal Purpose was slain already for their sins Rev 13:8
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
By His will He redeemed them from the curse of the Law Gal 3:13 and from its punishment.
By this decretive will alone, those Christ should die for are in the Mind and Will of God Justified from all punishment and wrath 1 Thess 1:10 due to their sins, beginning in adam their natural federal head;
God's absolute will not to punish them Christ in time would die for, is the essence of Him Justifying them in His Own Mind; This is True because that which was in God's Mind to secure the Elect from His Wrath, in that they were discharged from their sins and punishment due, can rightly be called Justification before God ! 11
Look at Col 1:21 again, brightfame52:
Colossians 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Now hath He reconciled ... if they had been reconciled when you claim they were reconciled, the verse would state "then hath He reconciled" (past tense).
And, of course, when we read the verse in context, we see Paul referred to the faith of the Colossian believers in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Now hath He reconciled ... at the time the Colossian believers were born again.
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As I indicated to you in Post #1440:
Since (according to you) the "all men" in Rom 5:18 as well as "the many" in Rom 5:19 refers only to "the elect", then "the elect" are only ones who are condemned (vs 18) and made sinners (vs 19) which means that all the rest of mankind are not condemned nor made sinners.
I will no longer debate with you concerning Rom 5:18-19. I have shown you that your complete and utter mangling of God's Word has led you so far astray that you are unable to discuss these verses in any meaningful manner.
Such a shame that you have been deceived by your erroneous wind of doctrine.
Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive
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