You started this thread to promote your Calvinism.
You do not believe Christ died for everyone.
You do not believe God wants everyone to be saved.
Who Justifieth the Ungodly
- Thread starter brightfame52
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You do not believe Christ died for everyone.
You do not believe God wants everyone to be saved.
Justification of Life for who ?
Rom 5:18
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
The words came upon means: happened as a result, meets on one, received on one !
Is Justification of life here for all those Christ died for ? More importantly does it apply to them before they exist, before they are believers ? The answer is yes indeed, no question about it, for the teaching here of Paul and the context demand it; For if the Justification of Life comes upon the Elect in the same manner as condemnation came upon them in Adam, as it is shown in this verse as well as throughout this Chapter 5 of Romans, then it is most reasonable and agreeable to sound judgment to conclude that Justification of Life was imputed, reckoned upon all the Elect before they had a physical being or existence, and even moreso, before they believed on Him.
Now this is true and evident that the sin of adam that called upon them condemnation, was before they had a being, or an existence, for Paul writes in the same Chapter and context Rom 5:12
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon or came upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Passed upon here means :"passed through unto all men so no one could escape its power "
Now here Paul is teaching by Divine Inspiration how and when sin entered into the world, and by that states Death passed upon all men ! Thats because, before they had any being, in him or in his loins all his seed had with him sinned even before they had being or existence !
Rom 5:18
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
The words came upon means: happened as a result, meets on one, received on one !
Is Justification of life here for all those Christ died for ? More importantly does it apply to them before they exist, before they are believers ? The answer is yes indeed, no question about it, for the teaching here of Paul and the context demand it; For if the Justification of Life comes upon the Elect in the same manner as condemnation came upon them in Adam, as it is shown in this verse as well as throughout this Chapter 5 of Romans, then it is most reasonable and agreeable to sound judgment to conclude that Justification of Life was imputed, reckoned upon all the Elect before they had a physical being or existence, and even moreso, before they believed on Him.
Now this is true and evident that the sin of adam that called upon them condemnation, was before they had a being, or an existence, for Paul writes in the same Chapter and context Rom 5:12
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon or came upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Passed upon here means :"passed through unto all men so no one could escape its power "
Now here Paul is teaching by Divine Inspiration how and when sin entered into the world, and by that states Death passed upon all men ! Thats because, before they had any being, in him or in his loins all his seed had with him sinned even before they had being or existence !
Anyone who hears the gospel and decides to believe it, something anyone has the ability to do.
brightfame52 said:
brightfame52 said:
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.brightfame52 said:
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
lie from the pitbrightfame52 said:
The absurd claims contained in your erroneous dogma are a result of you ripping verses from the context within which they sit.brightfame52 said:
Read Romans 4:25 in the context in which the Author of Scripture placed it:
Romans 4:
20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
As you can see, brightfame52, the Lord Jesus Christ died for all mankind and God imputes righteousness to those who believe.
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Not according to Scripture
Romans 4:
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it [Abraham's faith] was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith [the believer's faith] is counted for righteousness.
vs 3 – Abraham believed. The verse does not say what you claim.
vs 4 – the faith of the one believing is counted for righteousness.
Quit making stuff up. Just read Scripture as written.
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Then quit accusing the believer of "flat out" denying "that one is justified by Christ" when the believer states what is written in God's Word.
Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
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That Christ did die for those who reject Him reveals His great love for all.
And those who reject Him will understand their complete and utter foolishness when they find themselves cast into outer darkness.
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Excerpt from "What is the unpardonable sin / unforgivable sin?"
The only unpardonable sin today is that of continued unbelief. There is no pardon for a person who dies in his rejection of Christ. The Holy Spirit is at work in the world, convicting the unsaved of sin, righteousness, and judgment (John 16:8). If a person resists that conviction and remains unrepentant, then he is choosing hell over heaven. “Without faith it is impossible to please God” (Hebrews 11:6), and the object of faith is Jesus (Acts 16:31). There is no forgiveness for someone who dies without faith in Christ. God has provided for our salvation in His Son (John 3:16). Forgiveness is found exclusively in Jesus (John 14:6). To reject the only Savior is to be left with no means of salvation; to reject the only pardon is, obviously, unpardonable.
.Again, under your dogma if the "all men" of Rom 5:18 refers only to "all the elect", then only the "elect" were under condemnation.
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nope.
Romans 1:
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [Greek katechó = restrain, hinder] the truth in unrighteousness;
The promise is that the gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation.
Those who believe receive the salvation promised.
Those who do not believe because they restrain the truth in unrighteousness receive the consequence of their having restrained the truth ... i.e. they are under God's wrath.
Of course you and Gill are in complete agreement:brightfame52 said:
John Gill (23 November 1697 – 14 October 1771) was an English Baptist pastor, biblical scholar, and theologian who held to a firm Calvinistic soteriology.
.Interesting ... when someone reads God's Word exactly as written, he/she is "thinking with the natural mind" (according to you).
And when someone adds concepts not included in Scripture ("world of the Elect" or "men and women from every nation"), that is not "thinking with the natural mind" (according to you).
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Nope.
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
it is not faith that saves. It is the OBJECT of faith Who saves ... the on Him that justifieth the ungodly is Who saves. Him that justifieth the ungodly imputes righteousness on those who believe when they believe ... not before they believe.
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The one who needs to repent/be honest is the one who rips verses from their context instead of quoting the full context and then complains if he believes someone is doing the same with his commentary as if his commentary is equal to the Word of God.
And good to see you understand that when you rip verses from the context it's because you're "disagreeing with your [O]pponent".
Good to see you agree that removing verses of Scripture from the context is "dishonesty".
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Faith also believes Romans 5:1 ...
5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
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Jesus was at the temple during the feast of dedication. Some folks came to Him and asked Him if he was Messiah:
John 10:
24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me
vs 24 – they asked Him this question, not because they were interested in Him as Messiah. They asked Him so that they could accuse Him to the Roman governor.
vs 25 – Jesus responded to them concerning His works ... the works He did were sufficient to convince ... and they still did not believe.
vs 26 – those who saw the works of Jesus and believed and followed Him were instructed by Him and believed.
vs 27 – my sheep hear my voice ... and follow me. Jesus did not say the unbelievers did not hear. In fact in vs 25, Jesus said He told them, they heard, and they did not believe. In other words, they rejected the truth He spoke.
From Adam Clarke Commentary (bold mine):
My sheep hear my voice - But ye will not hear: - my sheep follow me; but ye will neither follow nor acknowledge me. Any person who reads without prejudice may easily see, that our Lord does not at all insinuate that these persons could not believe, because God had made it impossible to them; but simply because they did not hear and follow Christ, which the whole of our blessed Lord's discourse proves that they might have done. The sheep of Christ are not those who are included in any eternal decree, to the exclusion of others from the yearnings of the bowels of eternal mercy; but they are those who hear, believe in, follow, and obey the Savior of the world.
.Now you're just making stuff up. Why don't you just believe what is written? Instead of the mental gymnastics you go through to support your erroneous dogma, just believe what God tells us ...
Romans 4:
20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
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John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
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Read the verse again, brightfame52:
Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
If, as you claim, the "all men" in Rom 5:18 refers only to the "elect", then only the "elect" were under judgment to condemnation.
Read the verse, brightfame52:brightfame52 said:
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned
The verse does not say a person sinned before they were born.
The verse says all men die because they sin.
Rom 5:12 corroborates what is written in Rom 3:23 (For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God).
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