Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[brightfame52]

sigh ... the Lord Jesus Christ died for all mankind.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


Sin is an issue for those who do not believe

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


Believe = not condemned

Believe not = condemned, because he has not believed


Leave your erroneous dogma and READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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Christ could not have died for anyone who dies in their sins.

 

[brightfame52]

..........Providing......!!!!

...one repents, is baptized and begins a new life of righteousness.

You infer the umbrella of grace is automatic forgiveness for each sinful act..............not so.

Nope, provided that Christ lived and died for them.

 

[VARob]

Christ could not have died for anyone who dies in their sins.

Christ died for everyone. People who die in their sins chose not to believe the gospel.

 

[brightfame52]

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.





Your erroneous dogma conflicts with what is written in Scripture. You claim "that being the case" ... but what you claim as "the case" is found only in your dogma.

What we find in Scripture is that the Lord Jesus Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2) and that those who believe are justified before God:


Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
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Sinners Christ died for cant be condemned for unbelief because its a sin Christ Christ died for. That being said, any sinner that is already condemned, cannot be a sinner Christ died for. Sinners Christ died for are Justified from all sin.

 

[brightfame52]

Again, just read Scripture as written ... without your erroneous dogma.


Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.


The all men in Romans 5:18 refers to all of Adam's descendants.

In the case of the condemnation, all of Adam's descendants under judgment to condemnation [Greek katákrima = the exact sentence of condemnation handed down after due process establishing guilt].

In the case of the justification of life, the one act of righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ is afforded to all of Adam's descendants. However, those who reject are still under condemnation.


Under your erroneous dogma, if the all men referred to in Romans 5:18 relates only to the elect, then only the elect were under condemnation. That is where your erroneous dogma leads you.


Just read God's Word as written, believe what's written, and you'll be fine.

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
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In Rom 5:18 the Justification of life is upon all the elect of mankind from amongst the jews and from among the gentiles.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes, it does make sense that faith is inherent in all mankind.

Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse


If God withholds faith from those restrain the truth in unrighteousness (vs 18), then they have an excuse.

However, if God does not withhold faith from them, there is no excuse for them (vs 20) and they are judged with righteous judgment.


again, just read Scripture as God intended. Your erroneous dogma has blinded you to the truth revealed in Scripture.
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Again, it is senseless to give a lost sinner Faith to believe in Christ because the sinner isnt justified. The promise is that the Just shall live by Faith Rom 1:17

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. And one is made Just before God solely by the Blood of Christ Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Also Gill writes and I agree about Rom 5:9

Much more then being now justified by his blood,.... The apostle here argues from justification by Christ to salvation by him, there being a certain and inseparable connection between these two; whoever is justified shall be saved; and speaks of justification "as being now by his blood". Justification in God's mind from eternity proceeded upon the suretyship engagements of Christ to be performed in time; the Old Testament saints were justified of God with a view to the blood of the Lamb which was to be shed; this blood was "now" shed, and an application of justification by it was "now" made to the persons spoken of; which is the reason of this way of speaking. The blood of Christ intends his death, as appears from the context, and shows it to be a violent death; death by the effusion of blood. There is an emphasis upon it, "his blood"; not the blood of bulls and goats, nor of a mere innocent creature, but of Christ the Son of God; which is therefore efficacious to all the purposes for which it was shed, and particularly justification. This being ascribed to it, shows the concern Christ had in it, his blood is here put for the whole matter of justification; the shedding of that being the finishing part of it; and that our justification before God proceeds upon the foot of a satisfaction made to the law and justice of God: hence such as are interested in it,

 

[brightfame52]

Nope. if God had meant "world of the Elect" or "men and women from every nation", God would have clearly stated "world of the Elect, men and women from every nation" as He is quite capable of uttering those words to the holy men of God to whom He gave His Word (2 Peter 1:21).

You just have to manipulate Scripture in order to prop up your erroneous dogma because you cannot find Scripture which clearly states what your dogma claims.
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See you are in the dark as to how God in the bible uses the word world. You are thinking with the natural mind.

 

[brightfame52]

Are you saying that justification precedes faith? Please clarify

Yes and I have and I am clarifying with my posts.

 

[brightfame52]

A person is not justified before they believe (Rom 5:1).

The means of justification is available to all mankind ... not just some subgroup you refer to as "elect".

Those who believe are justified:

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. The verse does not state (as you claim) that anyone is "Justified before Faith" or "Justified before our existence". The verse states that the one who believes on Him Who justifies, his faith is counted for righteousness. Quit mangling Scripture to prop up your erroneous dogma!





Faith is inherent in all mankind. God has provided mankind with all that is necessary to believe on Him (John 3:18):


John 3:

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


What is tragic is that mankind believes lies and turns from God's provision to the lie of the adversary.


Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive
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You just denied Justification before God based upon the blood of Christ alone. Not good friend

 

[brightfame52]

Apparently it's okay for you to mislead by partially quoting a verse of Scripture without including the context within which the verse sits, but you have a conniption fit when you think someone is doing the same to you???? hahahahahaha!!! what chutzpah!!!!
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You havent repented from your misleading. Be honest when disagreeing with your opponent please.

 

[brightfame52]

Well at least you're finally acknowledging that crucial truth

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ



Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
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Another partial quote of what I said, so more dishonesty.

 

[brightfame52]

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
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Do you deny that Christs blood justified them died for ? Thats not something Faith does, Faith believes in Justification by His Blood Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

 

[brightfame52]

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference


1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.


Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
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Justification is limited to only those God gives the Gift of Faith, to cause them to believe. If a person never believes, its because they were never one of Gods elect or sheep Jn 10:26
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

 

[brightfame52]

yep ... Ephesians 4:5 tells us there is one faith. The same faith in OT as in NT.


Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ





righteousness of God ... unto all and upon all them that believe …
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They were Justified by Christs blood before they had been given Faith. Those who believe is because they already prior to believing had been Justified by Christs blood, even the OT Saints.

 

[brightfame52]

yikes, brightfame52 your erroneous dogma has you making distinctions not intended by the Author of Scripture.


John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
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If one dies in their sins, then Christ could not have died for them.

 

[brightfame52]

Read the verses again, brightfame52. Where does Rom 3:24-25 state "they by the Spirit of God was given Faith"

Romans 3:

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God


Vs 25 says "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood".

The verse does not state (as you claim) "they by the Spirit of God was given faith". Quit superimposing your erroneous dogma on what is written in Scripture. Just read Scripture as written.

Again, faith is inherent within all of mankind. If utilized properly, and a person does not restrain the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18), that person receives the blessing promised by God.

On the other hand, if faith is not utilized properly, and a person restrains the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18), that person receives the consequence promised by God.


The issue is not "do you have faith". All of mankind, all descendants of Adam, have faith.

The issue is "in what ... or more accurately in Whom ... does a person place his/her faith".

When folks place their faith in lies ... or when they are told truth and restrain the truth ... they receive the consequence of their unbelief.
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You are still denying the blood of Christ Justification before God. Faith is the fruit of Justification before God and not the cause of it.

 

[brightfame52]

Christ died for everyone. People have to hear and decide to believe the gospel in order to be saved, something anyone can do.

Christ could not have died for those who are not justified else the resurrection of Christ bare false witness.

 

[brightfame52]

"Those he lived and died for" is a favorite Calvinist expression...

Christ lived and died for everyone.

Its the Truth of scripture, Christ was a Covenant Head for the People God chose in Him, just like Adam was.

 

[brightfame52]

Christ died for everyone. People who die in their sins chose not to believe the gospel.

Its impossible that Christ died for anyone who dies in their sins, that would contradict His sin putting away death and blood.

 

[VARob]

Justification is limited to only those God gives the Gift of Faith, to cause them to believe.

God does not cause people to believe.