Who Justifieth the Ungodly
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The elect are Justified before they believe because an aspect of justification is their completeness in and through Christ Col 2:10
And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
This is foundationed on the fact that Christ has died for them, which death constituted them perfected forever Heb 10:14
14 For by one offering[His Death he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
This is before they believe. 36
And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
This is foundationed on the fact that Christ has died for them, which death constituted them perfected forever Heb 10:14
14 For by one offering[His Death he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
This is before they believe. 36
… replacement theology bunk which still does not change the fact that the "elect" referred to in Rom 8:33 are those who are born again through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ ... those who are in Christ Jesus (Rom 8:1) ... those who walk after the Spirit (Rom 8:4) ... those in whom the Spirit of God dwells (Rom 8:9) ... those who are led by the Spirit of God (Rom 8:14) ... those who love God (Rom 8:28) ... those who are being conformed to the image of His Son (Rom 8:29).Your (cough, cough) "ungodly elect" is a figment of your imagination.
click
There is no such terminology in Scripture ... you have made up the term in your vain attempt to prop up your erroneous "gospel" that "those He died for do not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners".
Galatians 1:
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
... nope.Romans 4:5 ... which is your proof text for your erroneous "justified while being ungodly" dogma ... does not state what you claim.
Romans 4:2-5 tells us that faith is not works:
Romans 4:
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it [Abraham's faith] was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
You have again failed in your futile attempt to align Scripture to your erroneous dogma.
You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where you are in error, let go of the error.
READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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... because you have again engaged in lifting a verse from the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed it, brightfame52, you ignore to whom the letter to Colossians is written, you have re-written the script to align with your erroneous dogma ... and you are in error in your surmisings.The letter to the Colossians is addressed to the saints and faithful brethren in Christ (Col 1:2) ... those of whom Paul and Timotheus had heard of [their] faith in Christ Jesus (Col 1:4) ... it is believers Paul writes about and says:
Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power
No one is in Christ Jesus until he or she is born again. Period.
The Lord Jesus Christ died for the whole world ... all descendants of Adam:brightfame52 said:
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
you again err because you rip Heb 10:14 from the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed it.brightfame52 said:
Hebrews 10:1-2 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
The words "the comers" is translated from the Greek word proserchomai which means to draw near to God in order to seek his grace and favor (Thayer's Greek Lexicon) ... which is what "worshippers" do.
The proserchomai of vs 1 are the worshippers of vs 2.
Now read Hebrews 10:14:
Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
The comers of vs 1 are the same as the worshippers of vs 2 ... and these are the "them that are sanctified" of vs 14.
brightfame52 said:
... nope ... the believer comes (Heb 10:1) after he or she believes ... the believer worships (Heb 10:2) after he or she believes ... and once the whosever believes that is the them that are sanctified (Heb 10:14).READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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Justification is promised by God to one people only Isa 45:25
Your (cough, cough) "ungodly elect" is a figment of your imagination.
click
There is no such terminology in Scripture ... you have made up the term in your vain attempt to prop up your erroneous "gospel" that "those He died for do not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners".
Galatians 1:
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Romans 4:5 ... which is your proof text for your erroneous "justified while being ungodly" dogma ... does not state what you claim.
Romans 4:2-5 tells us that faith is not works:
Romans 4:
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it [Abraham's faith] was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
You have again failed in your futile attempt to align Scripture to your erroneous dogma.
You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where you are in error, let go of the error.
READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.
25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.
Thats who it is in Rom 4:5
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Christs death alone Justified the elect before they believed, since His death perfected them before the Law and Justice of God, justification is part of their perfection Heb 10:14
The letter to the Colossians is addressed to the saints and faithful brethren in Christ (Col 1:2) ... those of whom Paul and Timotheus had heard of [their] faith in Christ Jesus (Col 1:4) ... it is believers Paul writes about and says:
Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power
No one is in Christ Jesus until he or she is born again. Period.
The Lord Jesus Christ died for the whole world ... all descendants of Adam:
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
you again err because you rip Heb 10:14 from the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed it.
Hebrews 10:1-2 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
The words "the comers" is translated from the Greek word proserchomai which means to draw near to God in order to seek his grace and favor (Thayer's Greek Lexicon) ... which is what "worshippers" do.
The proserchomai of vs 1 are the worshippers of vs 2.
Now read Hebrews 10:14:
Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
The comers of vs 1 are the same as the worshippers of vs 2 ... and these are the "them that are sanctified" of vs 14.
READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.
14 For by one offering[His death] he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Now according to this scripture how were they perfected for ever ?
... you can run hither and thither to any verse in Scripture you want ... that still does not does not change the fact that the "elect" referred to in Rom 8:33 are those who are born again through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ ... those who are in Christ Jesus (Rom 8:1) ... those who walk after the Spirit (Rom 8:4) ... those in whom the Spirit of God dwells (Rom 8:9) ... those who are led by the Spirit of God (Rom 8:14) ... those who love God (Rom 8:28) ... those who are being conformed to the image of His Son (Rom 8:29).brightfame52 said:
... more deflection on your part ... you are in error in your rendering of Romans 8:33, Isaiah 45:25, Romans 4:5.The question is ... when will you turn from your erroneous dogma to the truth of Scripture?
You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where you are in error, let go of the error.
1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
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218 pages + in this thread alone and you have yet to Scripturally prove your claim.
No one is "Justified ... before they believed"
Hebrews 10:14 does not state what you claim. I have warned you time and again, brightfame52, that your habitual ripping verses from the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed them does not change the meaning of the verse to your stated claim.brightfame52 said:
read the verse in context brightfame52.
Hebrews 10:
1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
According to the context, the comers spoken of in Heb 10:1 ... also known as the worshippers according to Heb 10:2 ... are the ones who are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once
Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all].
the words "for all" do not appear in the text.
Sanctification is founded on the one offering of Jesus, not on our own offerings or sacrifices. Hebrews 10:10 contrasts the sufficiency of the one sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ against the insufficiency of the sacrifices under the Old Covenant (see Heb 10:1-4).
Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
the "them that are sanctified" are the "comers" spoken of in vs 1 and the "worshippers" spoken of in vs 2. By the one offering, the Lord Jesus Christ has done all that was required ... there is no need of any further offering (vs 10) ...
Hebrews 10:
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
The one-time offering of the Lord Jesus Christ is sufficient for the remission of all the sins of all mankind. There is no other offering for the remission of sin. The "comers" (vs 1) and the "worshippers" (vs 2) are the "them that are sanctified" (vs 14) ... these are the partakers of the covenant (vs 16) whose sins and inquiries are remembered no more ... they are remitted. There is no other offering for sin (vs 18).
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"Pink was an ardent Calvinist and did not shrink from preaching and teaching the "doctrines of grace" otherwise known as the Five Points of Calvinism."
https://www.theopedia.com/arthur-w-pink
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@reneweddaybyday
Again Justification is promised to one people Isa 45:25
25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.
The same seed is referred to in Rom 4:16
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Again Justification is promised to one people Isa 45:25
25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.
The same seed is referred to in Rom 4:16
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
@reneweddaybyday
False, the elect were declared Justified before God at the resurrection of Christ after He put away their sins forever Rom 4:25
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
This was before they were born
False, the elect were declared Justified before God at the resurrection of Christ after He put away their sins forever Rom 4:25
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
This was before they were born
The truth you turn a blind eye as stated in Romans 4:16 is that it is of faith
Romans 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all
and Romans 4:16 does not change the fact that the "elect" referred to in Rom 8:33 are those who are born again through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ ... those who are in Christ Jesus (Rom 8:1) ... those who walk after the Spirit (Rom 8:4) ... those in whom the Spirit of God dwells (Rom 8:9) ... those who are led by the Spirit of God (Rom 8:14) ... those who love God (Rom 8:28) ... those who are being conformed to the image of His Son (Rom 8:29).
... like I said, 218+ pages (soon to be 219+ pages) into this thread and you have yet to Scripturally prove your claim because Rom 4:25 does not state what you claim:
"4:25
25 Who was delivered for our offenses, and was raised again for our justification.
This was before they were born"
so you are saying that no one was justified before the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ from the dead ... that's what you want me to believe, brightfame52 ... and what you want me to believe is not stated in Scripture.
your claims are downright preposterous ... your claims do not align with what is written in Scripture ... you preach another gospel
Galatians 1:
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
that I reject your erroneous dogma does not mean I reject the truth revealed in Scripture.
when you align your dogma to Scripture, you will see the error of your dogma.
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
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Justification is only for a seed Isa 45:25The truth you turn a blind eye as stated in Romans 4:16 is that it is of faith
Romans 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all
and Romans 4:16 does not change the fact that the "elect" referred to in Rom 8:33 are those who are born again through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ ... those who are in Christ Jesus (Rom 8:1) ... those who walk after the Spirit (Rom 8:4) ... those in whom the Spirit of God dwells (Rom 8:9) ... those who are led by the Spirit of God (Rom 8:14) ... those who love God (Rom 8:28) ... those who are being conformed to the image of His Son (Rom 8:29).
"4:2525 Who was delivered for our offenses, and was raised again for our justification.This was before they were born"
so you are saying that no one was justified before the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ from the dead ... that's what you want me to believe, brightfame52 ... and what you want me to believe is not stated in Scripture.
your claims are downright preposterous ... your claims do not align with what is written in Scripture ... you preach another gospel
Galatians 1:
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
that I reject your erroneous dogma does not mean I reject the truth revealed in Scripture.
when you align your dogma to Scripture, you will see the error of your dogma.
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
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In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.
The same seed here Rom 4:16
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Romans 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all
Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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The Seed in Rom 4:16 is the only people who are Justified, for they only were promised to be Isa 45
25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.
And Faith in Rom 4:16 is according to Grace, its part of the Justification by Grace.
God Justifieth the Elect Rom 8:33
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Justification is an act of God’s Free And Sovereign Grace and Love, wherein He through the redemption that is in Jesus Christ Rom.3:24, has freely forgiven/pardoned the sins of all his elect, and approves of them in Him as completely just and righteous, Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. This while they are yet ungodly, thats why its of Grace !
37
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Justification is an act of God’s Free And Sovereign Grace and Love, wherein He through the redemption that is in Jesus Christ Rom.3:24, has freely forgiven/pardoned the sins of all his elect, and approves of them in Him as completely just and righteous, Rom 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. This while they are yet ungodly, thats why its of Grace !
37
God Justified the ungodly, yet not because they are ungodly in themselves, but because while ungodly, God views them clothed in Christs righteousness by imputation. Isa 61:10
I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.
Ps 132:9
Let thy priests be clothed with righteousness; and let thy saints shout for joy.
Them who Christ died for, had their sins imputed to Christ, and in turn they had Christs Righteousness made unto them 2 Cor 5:21
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.
Ps 132:9
Let thy priests be clothed with righteousness; and let thy saints shout for joy.
Them who Christ died for, had their sins imputed to Christ, and in turn they had Christs Righteousness made unto them 2 Cor 5:21
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.