Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[brightfame52]

So the natural man can understand the gospel enough to reject it but not accept it?

Thats why he will be judged the more severely because when he heard the Gospel naturally he rejected it, didnt receive it and love of it 2 Thess 2:10-11

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

 

[Cameron143]

Yes, he can understand it naturally just fine, but he cannot understand it Spiritually unto a Salvation conversion. In other words, when he understands it naturally he remains in a lost condition

I don't disagree. My only point is that even lost people can understand the gospel.

 

[brightfame52]

I don't disagree. My only point is that even lost people can understand the gospel.

Spiritually no they can't 1 Cor 2:14.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

There is no Salvation in Christ Jesus except for the Elect.

There is only One "Elect" ... that is the Lord Jesus Christ.

Those who do not suppress the truth in righteousness when they hear the gospel (Rom 1:16-18) are the ones who trust and believe and then are sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise (Eph 1:13).

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise


Once a person is born again, he or she is considered "elect" because the "Elect" resides within:

Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory


Until a person is born again, he or she is dead in trespasses and sins ... walks according to the course of this world ... had their conversation in the lusts of the flesh ... were by nature the children of wrath, even as others:

Ephesians 2:1-3 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

when he heard the Gospel naturally he rejected it, didnt receive it

this is what I have been telling you, brightfame52 ... those who will be cast into the lake of fire are those who heard the gospel and rejected it.

Romans 1:18-20 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse
.

 

[brightfame52]

There is only One "Elect" ... that is the Lord Jesus Christ.

Those who do not suppress the truth in righteousness when they hear the gospel (Rom 1:16-18) are the ones who trust and believe and then are sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise (Eph 1:13).

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise


Once a person is born again, he or she is considered "elect" because the "Elect" resides within:

Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory


Until a person is born again, he or she is dead in trespasses and sins ... walks according to the course of this world ... had their conversation in the lusts of the flesh ... were by nature the children of wrath, even as others:

Ephesians 2:1-3 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
.

Again Salvation in Christ Jesus with eternal Glory is for the Elect, for them alone 2 Tim 2:10

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

 

[brightfame52]

this is what I have been telling you, brightfame52 ... those who will be cast into the lake of fire are those who heard the gospel and rejected it.

Romans 1:18-20 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse
.

Thats the natural man. The natural man cannot understand the Gospel Spiritually, because it must be Spiritually discerned 1 Cor 2:14 the natural man doesnt have the Spirit of God.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Again Salvation in Christ Jesus with eternal Glory is for the Elect

The Lord Jesus Christ is the Elect ... until a person is born again, he or she is dead in trespasses and sins ... walks according to the course of this world ... had their conversation in the lusts of the flesh ... were by nature the children of wrath, even as others:

Ephesians 2:1-3 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
.

 

[brightfame52]

The Lord Jesus Christ is the Elect ... until a person is born again, he or she is dead in trespasses and sins ... walks according to the course of this world ... had their conversation in the lusts of the flesh ... were by nature the children of wrath, even as others:

Ephesians 2:1-3 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
.

Eph 2:1-3 is all about the Elect see Eph 1:4

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Thats the natural man. The natural man cannot understand the Gospel Spiritually, because it must be Spiritually discerned 1 Cor 2:14 the natural man doesnt have the Spirit of God.

1 Cor 2:14 relates to the mystery, the hidden wisdom as has been explained to you. You reject the truth of Scripture ... change the meaning of Scripture ... and in so doing, you remain ignorant of both the gospel (which is the power of God unto salvation – Rom 1:16) and the mystery, the hidden wisdom (kept secret since the world began – Rom 16:25; and in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men – Eph 3:5); and from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God – Eph 3:9; and which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest – Col 1:26).


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Eph 2:1-3 is all about the Elect see Eph 1:4

nope ... Eph 2:2-3 does not describe the Elect, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Eph 2:2-3 describes the believer before he or she was born again.

Ephesians 2:1-3 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
.

 

[brightfame52]

According to Rom 5:9 !

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Were believers Justified by Christ's Blood or by their believing /faith ? It cannot be both, for being Justified by His Blood is not our act of faith, and our believing is not the Blood of Christ ! 16

 

[brightfame52]

We are Justified, made right with God, if and when Christ has taken away our sins, Jn 1:29

29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

1 Jn 3:5

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Heb 10:11-12

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

The implication here is this man did what other priest could not do, take away sins !

But the Man/Priest Christ did this, not our believing it, so we are Justified and had our sins taken away before we believed !

 

[reneweddaybyday]

we are Justified and had our sins taken away before we believed !

nope ... born a sinner and justified when we believe ... just as is written in Scripture:

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


vs 24 – righteousness is imputed when a person believes on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead ... not before.

vs 1 - therefore being justified by faith ... the text does not read "therefore being justified before we believed".
.

 

[brightfame52]

nope ... born a sinner and justified when we believe ... just as is written in Scripture:

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


vs 24 – righteousness is imputed when a person believes on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead ... not before.

vs 1 - therefore being justified by faith ... the text does not read "therefore being justified before we believed".
.

To say no and disagree is unbeiief, it's denial of the justifying efficacy of the Blood of Christ. That's unbelief!

 

[reneweddaybyday]

To say no and disagree is unbeiief

to disregard the Scriptures which clearly state that righteousness is imputed when a person believes is unbelief on your part:

Romans 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be [verb - present tense] imputed [verb - present tense], if we believe [verb - present tense] on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead

The bolded verbs are present tense ... not past tense as claimed by you.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

 

[brightfame52]

to disregard the Scriptures which clearly state that righteousness is imputed when a person believes is unbelief on your part:

Romans 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be [verb - present tense] imputed [verb - present tense], if we believe [verb - present tense] on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead

The bolded verbs are present tense ... not past tense as claimed by you.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

You still in unbelief!

 

[brightfame52]

to disregard the Scriptures which clearly state that righteousness is imputed when a person believes is unbelief on your part:

Romans 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be [verb - present tense] imputed [verb - present tense], if we believe [verb - present tense] on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead

The bolded verbs are present tense ... not past tense as claimed by you.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

You do disregard scripture, thats why you deny Jesus death alone Justified before God those He gave Himself for, which again is unbelief !

 

[reneweddaybyday]

You do disregard scripture

newsflash, brightfame52 ... disregarding your erroneous dogma is not disregarding Scripture.

you deny Jesus death alone Justified before God those He gave Himself for, which again is unbelief !

The Lord Jesus Christ gave Himself for the world ... the whole world:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
.

 

[brightfame52]

newsflash, brightfame52 ... disregarding your erroneous dogma is not disregarding Scripture.





The Lord Jesus Christ gave Himself for the world ... the whole world:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
.

There is no way around it, you believe people Christ died for remain lost in their sins, unjustified, unforgiven, thats unbelief !