Who is the 'ONE' who sits on the throne?

[tylerbones1313]

FALSE. We cannot substitute God the Son for God the Father. Therefore you are incorrect in what you have said.

Now kindly pay close attention to the Word of God -- the revelation of God given to us:
And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald... And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. (Rev 4:2,3; 5:1-7)

Now who is it who was seen sitting on the throne and in whose right hand was a book (scroll) with seven seals? Was that not GOD THE FATHER?

And who is the one who is the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, the one who "CAME AND TOOK THE BOOK OUT OF THE RIGHT HAND OF HIM THAT SAT ON THE THRONE? Is that not the Lord Jesus Christ? Then why are you substituting the Son for the Father? Do you not believe God?

I am not substituting the Son for the Father I'm accepting the fact that the Son is the Father

John:14
9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

 

[JaumeJ]

People really should read and meditate on all of the Word, not just the NT. Amon other declarations from God are, "I am your King." "I am your husband." "I am your redeemer."
Not to mention Isaiah 9:6.

These EXPERTS who tout they know all about the person O Yahweh, should really study the Word. About Yahweh, He declared to Moses that He would be What He ourl be. Is this hint enough for anyone? I should hope, with the gift of faith, that this alone should cover that there is but One God, yes, God is One. Now how He shoses to be has nothing to do with making Him more than one. I do not yet understand the full mystery of this but I do know God says it, I believe it, and that settles it.

So no argument coming from me, please keep your argument without faith to yourselves, those who cannor believe God on faith.

 

[JaumeJ]

I am not substituting the Son for the Father I'm accepting the fact that the Son is the Father

John:14
9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

You exemplify understanding by faith, well done, and may you always be blessed so , amen.

 

[Cameron143]

If it were simply God's desire to manifest Himself in the entirety of His divine characteristics and ways, it is not necessary for Him to do so in the revelation of Himself in 3 persons if He is only one person. So in doing so, God must have purpose. And that purpose is to reveal Himself as He is in His entirety...three persons.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I am not substituting the Son for the Father I'm accepting the fact that the Son is the Father

How can the Son be the Father either in the Godhead or even among human beings? DO YOU SEE THE ABSURDITY OF WHAT YOU JUST SAID? And quoting from John 14 shows that you are unable to rightly divide the Word of Truth. Anyway, I'm done with this silliness.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Scripture reveals Jesus is BOTH the Root and the Offspring of David; "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David,..." Rev 22:16

This does not help to refute the nonsense that the Son is the Father. Of course, being the Lion of the tribe of Judah made Christ a descendant of David.

 

[ewq1938]

I am not substituting the Son for the Father I'm accepting the fact that the Son is the Father

If you are not your own father and your father's son, then neither is Jesus his own father. It's pure nonsense and false teaching.

 

[JaumeJ]

If you are not your own father and your father's son, then neither is Jesus his own father. It's pure nonsense and false teaching.

Then why does our Maker teach, through Isaiah 9:6, that Jesus is to be called bty all three persons. God does not lie.

 

[ewq1938]

Then why does our Maker teach, through Isaiah 9:6, that Jesus is to be called bty all three persons.

It does not in any way say that Jesus is all three. It says his name will be called many things, and this is factual. There are MANY verses which show Jesus separate from the Holy Spirit and God the Father proving there are three that are visibly separate. God does not lie.

 

[JaumeJ]

It does not in any way say that Jesus is all three. It says his name will be called many things, and this is factual. There are MANY verses which show Jesus separate from the Holy Spirit and God the Father proving there are three that are visibly separate. God does not lie.

The Word is Truth eternally, facts and beinng factual will burn up with the change to the new heaven and dthe new earth. Knowing this is a boon to understanding.
Isaiah was given to say the Child born unto the virgin would be called Counselor which is the Holy Spirit, Eternal Father which is self explanatory, and Ruler of Pece. I need not demand you understand this. You either do, or you do not.

 

[ewq1938]

The Word is Truth eternally, facts and beinng factual will burn up with the change to the new heaven and dthe new earth. Knowing this is a boon to understanding.
Isaiah was given to say the Child born unto the virgin would be called Counselor which is the Holy Spirit, Eternal Father which is self explanatory, and Ruler of Pece. I need not demand you understand this. You either do, or you do not.

It does not in any way say that Jesus is all three. It says his name will be called many things, and this is factual. There are MANY verses which show Jesus separate from the Holy Spirit and God the Father proving there are three that are visibly separate. I need not demand you understand this. You either do, or you do not. God does not lie.

 

[Researcher]

...the passage shows Jesus approaching the one on the throne and taking that book.

We need to be clear about what exactly is being described. That is the Slain Lamb with seven eyes...

Revelation 5:6
"And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth."

The Slain Lamb represents the Blood of Christ...

1 Peter 1:19
"But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot"

The Slain Lamb also represents Father Abraham's Seed...

Galatians 3:16
"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ."

The Book in the right hand may actually be synonymous with the Lamb's Book of Life...

Revelation 13:8
"And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

Only the Slain Lamb is worthy to open the Lamb's Book of Life. It literally belongs to him. Like a lock and Key, the Blood of Christ is the only thing that will open it. Note that the Lamb was slain long before the incarnation of Jesus, and before his death on the Cross.

The Lamb was slain before the world was created; thus, the Throne should be understood with all of the context above in mind.

 

[Researcher]

FYI...

Please keep these verses in mind when interpreting the Throne Room...

1 Timothy 6:14-16
"That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."

John was in the Throne Room, yet the verses state that 'no man can approach' and 'no man has seen'. Therefore, we must understand that there is yet another Sacred Space that Jesus ultimately dwells in. It is a place of Unapproachable Light combined with the Word of God...

John 1:1
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Remember also that there are Three Heavens. It could be that the Throne Room is the Third Heaven/Paradise...

2 Corinthians 12:2
"I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one caught up to the third heaven."

The Throne Room may even be Abraham's Bosom where the Saved 'rest' until the Marriage Supper...

Revelation 6:11
"And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

Lots to consider.

 

[ewq1938]

The Slain Lamb represents the Blood of Christ...

No, it represents Christ who had been killed as a sin sacrifice. The representation also suggests that this event took place as soon as this Lamb ascended to heaven from the Earth.

 

[JaumeJ]

As far as I understand , you are teaching to the contrary of God's Word. May He bless you with understanding and holy compassion.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Remember also that there are Three Heavens. It could be that the Throne Room is the Third Heaven/Paradise...

Not "could be" but "is in fact".

The Throne Room may even be Abraham's Bosom where the Saved 'rest' until the Marriage Supper.

TOTALLY FALSE. "Abraham's Bosom" existed in Sheol/Hades until the resurrection. There is no "Abraham's Bosom" now.

You keep using the term "Throne Room" for Heaven. You will not find that term in the Bible for the simple reason that God's Heaven is definitely not a room. It is a vast space in which countless angels reside (among others). And His throne is there.

And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind. (Rev 4:6) We do not even know the extent of this sea of glass, or what kind of glass there is in Heaven.

 

[Wansvic]

This does not help to refute the nonsense that the Son is the Father. Of course, being the Lion of the tribe of Judah made Christ a descendant of David.

Revelation 22:16 reveals both the deity and the humanity of Jesus:

As "the Root ... of David," Jesus Christ brought David into existence. As "the Offspring of David," Jesus came into this world, born a Jew from David's line.

 

[tylerbones1313]

How can the Son be the Father either in the Godhead or even among human beings? DO YOU SEE THE ABSURDITY OF WHAT YOU JUST SAID? And quoting from John 14 shows that you are unable to rightly divide the Word of Truth. Anyway, I'm done with this silliness.

Conversation with Bard
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Philippians 2:5-8

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Philippians 2:5-8 is a passage that calls Christians to have the same mindset as Christ Jesus. This means to be humble and selfless, putting the needs of others before our own.
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Philippians 2:58

The passage begins by saying, "Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus." This means that we should think and act like Jesus did. Jesus was humble and selfless, and he always put the needs of others before his own.

The passage then goes on to say, "Who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped." This means that Jesus, who was fully God, did not cling to his power and authority. Instead, he was willing to give up everything for the sake of humanity.

The passage next says, "But emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men." This means that Jesus took on the form of a human being, and he lived a humble life. He was not concerned with his own status or power, but he was instead concerned with serving others.

The passage finally says, "And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross." This means that Jesus was willing to die for the sake of humanity. He was obedient to God's will, even when it meant facing death.

Philippians 2:5-8 is a powerful passage that calls us to be more like Christ Jesus. We are called to be humble and selfless, putting the needs of others before our own. We are also called to be obedient to God's will, even when it is difficult.

Sources
hbcharlesjr.com/resource-library/articles/the-hymn-of-christ/
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Show me just the scripture

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Sure, here is the scripture passage Philippians 2:5-8:

[5] Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,
[6] who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
[7] but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men.
[8] And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Sources
newcityphx.com/biblical-perspectives/philippians-2-5-11-study-guide/
www.thingsofthesort.com/sermons-2/2018/12/16/philippians-23-11-what-was-jesus-thinking-at-christmas
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1 Timothy 3:16: "And without doubt the mystery of godliness is great: He appeared in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up into glory."

These scriptures teach that God came to Earth as a man in the person of Jesus Christ. Jesus was fully God and fully man. He came to Earth to live a perfect life and to die on the cross as a sacrifice for our sins. Through his death and resurrection, we are offered forgiveness of our sins and eternal life with God


1 Timothy 3:16 KJV

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

Explanation

This verse is a summary of the Christian faith, and it encapsulates the mystery of the incarnation. The word "mystery" here does not mean something that is impossible to understand, but rather something that is hidden from natural sight and can only be understood through revelation.

The verse begins by saying that "God was manifest in the flesh." This means that God, who is invisible and spiritual, took on a physical body in the person of Jesus Christ. This was a miraculous event, and it was necessary for God to do this in order to redeem humanity from sin.

The verse then goes on to say that Jesus was "justified in the Spirit." This means that Jesus was declared righteous by God, even though he was sinless. This was necessary because we are all sinners, and we cannot be righteous before God on our own.

The verse next says that Jesus was "seen of angels." This means that Jesus was seen by angels, who are spiritual beings that serve God. This is a reminder that Jesus is not just a human being, but he is also God.

The verse then says that Jesus was "preached unto the Gentiles." This means that the gospel of Jesus Christ was preached to all people, not just to the Jews. This was a radical change from the Old Testament system, in which salvation was only available to the Jews.

How can the Son be the Father either in the Godhead or even among human beings? DO YOU SEE THE ABSURDITY OF WHAT YOU JUST SAID? And quoting from John 14 shows that you are unable to rightly divide the Word of Truth. Anyway, I'm done with this silliness.

1 Timothy 3:16 KJV

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: GOD was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

Explanation

This verse is a summary of the Christian faith, and it encapsulates the mystery of the incarnation. The word "mystery" here does not mean something that is impossible to understand, but rather something that is hidden from natural sight and can only be understood through revelation.

The verse begins by saying that "God was manifest in the flesh." This means that God, who is invisible and spiritual, took on a physical body in the person of Jesus Christ. This was a miraculous event, and it was necessary for God to do this in order to redeem humanity from sin.

The verse then goes on to say that Jesus was "justified in the Spirit." This means that Jesus was declared righteous by God, even though he was sinless. This was necessary because we are all sinners, and we cannot be righteous before God on our own.

The verse next says that Jesus was "seen of angels." This means that Jesus was seen by angels, who are spiritual beings that serve God. This is a reminder that Jesus is not just a human being, but he is also God.

The verse then says that Jesus was "preached unto the Gentiles." This means that the gospel of Jesus Christ was preached to all people, not just to the Jews. This was a radical change from the Old Testament system, in which salvation was only available to the Jews.

The verse finally says that Jesus was "received up into glory." This means that Jesus ascended to heaven after his resurrection. This is a reminder that Jesus is now in heaven, and he is interceding for us with God the Father.

Overall, 1 Timothy 3:16 is a powerful verse that summarizes the Christian faith and encapsulates the mystery of the incarnation.

I hope this explanation is helpful. Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Who else would Jesus be if he were not my Lord and My God. Even one of his own disciples recognized this fact.

John 20:27-28
Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

 

[tylerbones1313]

John 8:24
Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.

The phrase "die in your sins" refers to spiritual death, which is separation from God. This is a serious consequence of not believing in Jesus Christ, as it means that the person will not have eternal life.

The phrase "that I am he" is a reference to Jesus' claim to be the Son of God. This claim is central to the Christian faith, as it means that Jesus is not just a human being but is also God himself.

 

[Researcher]

No, it represents Christ who had been killed as a sin sacrifice. The representation also suggests that this event took place as soon as this Lamb ascended to heaven from the Earth.

The Throne is a reflective of this verse...

1 John 5:7
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

The Slain Lamb represents the Word...

Revelation 19:13
"And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God."

The Slain Lamb is also representative of the Stone with Seven Eyes. It all points to the Word that was made flesh.