Who first taught that Isaiah 14 is about Satan?

[Beckie]

Oh I meant you quote that scripture.
Oh I never meant you think the scriptures contradict themselves I was more agreeing with you that they dont, and others think the same its just that different people make certain verses mean different things when scripture apparently contradicts itself by taking all verses literally.
I think if we take scripture simply or literally all the time we come across problems, like when Nicodemus was told we must be born again, then how are we born again do we reenter the womb to be born a second time? would be the literal meaning of the words.

So I think with phrases like this generation can be taken simply, but is He talking about the generation being spoken too or the generation Hes speaking about? or both(if their is a both)

In Matthew 24 if the generation was the one He was speaking too and not the Generation He was speaking about, does that not mean the 1000yr Millennial kingdom would have followed, and then after the 1000yrs were finished does that not mean Jerusalem the eternal city has descended from heaven and we are all in heaven right now?

Thanks Comparing the phrase "this generation" which is a simple term to "ye must be born again" is akin to comparing apples to eggplant.
For me I believe He was speaking of "that generation" . not this one. As for Jerusalem descending....
Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Nice to have some pleasant back and forth conversation.

 

[TheLearner]

start at #60 being kicked off by wife

People have been taught the text means Satan and are not doing good historical cultural study of the bible. Isaiah was written in a historical context which is not our context today.

 

[studentoftheword]

Interesting Read here on Isaiah 14 ---Read all for yourselves ---I just posted some of it

https://bible-studys.org/isaiah-chapter-14/

Isaiah Chapter 14
Verses 1-14: This section is a song of triumph over Babylon. The nation that will one day send Judah into captivity will herself be severely judged by God. In spite of this displeasure with Israel, there is coming a time when He will have mercy on Jacob and will choose Israel.

This refers to Israel’s future restoration in her own land. Hell (Sheol), is the Old Testament name for the abode of the dead, a fiery place of judgment for the unrighteous. In the proverb used here the king of Babylon is viewed as being welcomed into hell by the kings of the nations (Gentiles), who are astonished that he has become weak as they.

In the first three verses, the primary view is the prophet looking at the final Babylon at the end of the tribulation. The language is that which characterizes conditions during the millennial kingdom after the judgment of the final Babylon. The destruction of future Babylon is integrally connected with the deliverance of Israel from bondage. Babylon must perish so that the Lord may exalt His people. God’s compassion for physical Israel receives fuller development (in chapters 40-46).

Verses 12-14, “Fallen from heaven … I will be like the most High”. Jesus’ use (of verse 12), to describe Satan’s fall (Luke 10:18; Rev. 12:8-10), has led many to see more than a reference to the king of Babylon. Just as the Lord addressed Satan in His words to the serpent (in Genesis 3:14-15), this inspired dirge speaks to the king of Babylon and to the devil who energized him. (see Ezekiel 28:12-17), for similar language to the king of Tyre and Satan behind him.

Isaiah 14:12 “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!”

The scene suddenly shifts from the underworld to heaven to emphasize the unbridled pride of the king and Satan energizing him. Son of the morning, translated star of the morning. Tradition of the time saw the stars as representing gods battling among themselves for places of preeminence.

The devil, or Satan, was named Lucifer in heaven, and he was proud and arrogant. His desire was to be God. He is a counterfeit.

Everything God has done that is beautiful, the devil tries to copy. He is so evil himself, that everything he does in the way of a copy becomes evil too. Beautiful, spiritual music is from God. Satan’s counterfeit, which I believe we see in much of the rock music today, is a sickening example of what Satan does with everything he touches.

Lucifer most certainly refers to Satan. Now we see the real power behind the Gentile monarchs. Thus, Isaiah uses that fall of Satan, which is an assumed fact, to illustrate the fall of the Babylonian king. The name Lucifer is actually the Latin designation for the morning star (literarily, Light bearer”). The Hebrew (helel), means the “bright one.” As the morning star speedily disappears before the rising sun, so Satan, the angel of light, will be banished to outer darkness by the coming of the Son of God.
Lucifer wants to be as God.

Verses 13-14: We find five “I wills” emphasizing the arrogance of the king of Babylon and of Satan, from whom he takes his cue.

Isaiah 14:13 “For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:”

The mount of the congregation or the mount of the assembly was a mountain in northern Syria, according to local tradition, where the Canaanite gods assemble. The human king aspired to kingship over those gods.

This is not only speaking of Lucifer here, but all who hunger for power and greed. The king of Babylon (literally), and Lucifer are both intended. You could include in that all who desire to be God. Notice the “I will” statements.

This is a statement from someone who is not speaking of doing this through the power and might of God, but believing that they have power to control all of this within themselves. This is a very arrogant attitude. In the main sense, this is Lucifer, himself. He is thinking of himself as God.

Isaiah 14:14 “I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.”

The Babylonians, and many today, want to be God. The father of all of this evil thinking was Lucifer, himself. He was one of the three archangels mentioned in the Bible. He was so powerful in heaven that a third of the angels followed him.

Isaiah 14:15 “Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.”

We see that the will of man, or Lucifer, following their fleshly desires (their own will), brings them to total destruction and eventually an eternity in hell.

Death awaits those who try to be like God.

Verses 16-21. The final section of the dirge elaborates on the disgrace of the king, on display before all as an unburied corpse.

Isaiah 14:16 “They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, [and] consider thee, [saying, Is] this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;”

A king who has fallen under God’s judgment is no better off than the people he tricked into believing he had great power. They are both in hell together. The very same thing is true of the devil, Satan, or Lucifer. Jesus defeated him on the cross. He is a defeated foe.

 

[Gideon300]

start at #60 being kicked off by wife

People have been taught the text means Satan and are not doing good historical cultural study of the bible. Isaiah was written in a historical context which is not our context today.

You are quite right. That does not make the interpretation wrong. How well do you know the culture of that day? How well did the Babylonians and Israelites know Greek mythology?

"Historical context" can be a euphemism for rejecting God's word. I hear things like they had no time outs in the Bible so it is wrong to spank your kids. I hear justification for homosexual relationships or that wives no longer need to submit to their husbands.

If the world was a better place because people disobey God's word, you might have a point. It is not. Australian prisons are filling up with violent and murderous children who boast about stabbing people to death. And the do-gooder's say it's wrong to lock them up. If the parents took control, the kids would not be running riot.

I believe that the Holy Spirit revealed to me that Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 refer to Satan as well as the natural rulers. That's good enough for me.

 

[TheLearner]

Why not? It's his job. Paul prayed that Christians would receive the Spirit of Wisdom and Revelation. Lord Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would lead us into all truth. Spiritual things are spiritually understood, not intellectually dissected.

As I said yesterday, that interpretation is natural sources since it is taught by many, that does not make it truee.

"

Ephesians 1:15-19

J.B. Phillips New Testament



I thank God for you, and pray for you
15-19 Since, then, I heard of this faith of yours in the Lord Jesus and the practical way in which you are expressing it towards fellow-Christians, I thank God continually for you and I never give up praying for you; and this is my prayer. That God, the God of our Lord Jesus Christ and the all-glorious Father, will give you spiritual wisdom and the insight to know more of him: that you may receive that inner illumination of the spirit which will make you realise how great is the hope to which he is calling you—the magnificence and splendour of the inheritance promised to Christians—and how tremendous is the power available to us who believe in God." Phillips


Ephesians 1:15-19

Authorized (King James) Version



15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints, 16 cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers; 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18 the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19 and what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

It does not say knowledge of Satan.

CEB
I pray that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, will give you a spirit of wisdom and revelation that makes God known to you.

CEV
I ask the glorious Father and God of our Lord Jesus Christ to give you his Spirit. The Spirit will make you wise and let you understand what it means to know God.

ERV
I always pray to the great and glorious Father, the God of our Lord Jesus Christ. I pray that he will give you the Spirit, who will let you know truths about God and help you understand them, so that you will know him better.
EHV
I keep praying that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, will give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation in knowing Christ fully.

MOUNCE
that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and revelation by coming to know more of him.

NET
I pray that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, will give you spiritual wisdom and revelation in your growing knowledge of him,

NIRV
I pray to the God of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is the glorious Father. I keep asking him to give you the wisdom and understanding that come from the Holy Spirit. I want you to know God better.

It is not special knowledge about Satan, it is all about our Lord

 

[TheLearner]

start at #62

 

[TheLearner]

Isaiah 14:13


AMP
“But you said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit on the mount of assembly In the remote parts of the north.


CSB
You said to yourself, “I will ascend to the heavens; I will set up my throne above the stars of God. I will sit on the mount of the gods’ assembly, in the remotest parts of the North.

CJB
You thought to yourself, ‘I will scale the heavens, I will raise my throne above God’s stars. I will sit on the Mount of Assembly far away in the north.

CEV
You said to yourself, “I'll climb to heaven and place my throne above the highest stars. I'll sit there with the gods far away in the north.

ERV
You always told yourself, “I will go to the skies above. I will put my throne above God’s stars. I will sit on Zaphon, the holy mountain where the gods meet.

EXB
You told yourself, “I will ·go up to heaven [or ascend to the sky]. I will put my throne above God’s stars. I will ·sit [or rule] on the mountain of the ·gods [L assembly], on the slopes of ·the sacred mountain [or the north; or Mount Zaphon; C known as the mountain of Baal].

GW
You thought, “I’ll go up to heaven and set up my throne above God’s stars. I’ll sit on the mountain far away in the north where the gods assemble.
GNT
You were determined to climb up to heaven and to place your throne above the highest stars. You thought you would sit like a king on that mountain in the north where the gods assemble.

NOG
You thought, “I’ll go up to heaven and set up my throne above El’s stars. I’ll sit on the mountain far away in the north where the gods assemble.
NABRE
In your heart you said: “I will scale the heavens; Above the stars of God I will set up my throne; I will take my seat on the Mount of Assembly, on the heights of Zaphon.
NET
You said to yourself, ‘I will climb up to the sky. Above the stars of El I will set up my throne. I will rule on the mountain of assembly on the remote slopes of Zaphon.
NIRV
You said in your heart, ‘I will go up to the heavens. I’ll raise my throne above the stars of God. I’ll sit as king on the mountain where the gods meet. I’ll set up my throne on the highest slopes of Mount Zaphon.
NIV
You said in your heart, “I will ascend to the heavens; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon.
NIVUK
You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to the heavens; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon.
NLT
For you said to yourself, ‘I will ascend to heaven and set my throne above God’s stars. I will preside on the mountain of the gods far away in the north.
NRSVA
You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit on the mount of assembly on the heights of Zaphon;
NRSVACE
You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit on the mount of assembly on the heights of Zaphon;
NRSVCE
You said in your heart, “I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit on the mount of assembly on the heights of Zaphon;
NRSVUE
You said to yourself, “I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit on the mount of assembly on the heights of Zaphon;
WYC
Which saidest in thine heart, I shall ascend into heaven, I shall enhance my seat above the stars of (the) heaven(s); I shall sit in the hill of (the) testament, in the sides of the north. (Who saidest in thy heart, I shall ascend into heaven, I shall exalt, or I shall set, my throne above the stars of the heavens; I shall sit on the mountain where the gods meet, on the sides of the north.)
YLT
And thou saidst in thy heart: the heavens I go up, Above stars of God I raise my throne, And I sit in the mount of meeting in the sides of the north.

"
Mt. Zion (Jerusalem) is near the middle of Israel, but when the kingdom split, Jerusalem was then near the northern border of Judah (the southern kingdom). While this is a possible explanation for Zaphon being equated with Jerusalem in the ESV, it also seems that the term Zaphon was used in Canaanite literature to refer to a “cosmic mountain par excellence in Northwest Semitic regions” (Niehr, H., “Baal-Zaphon,” Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible Online, van der Toorn, Becking, and van der Horst, ed., http://dx.doi.org/10.1163/2589-7802_DDDO_DDDO_Baal_Zaphon, accessed 1/19/22). It may be that the biblical author in Psalm 48:2 is making a conscious comparison between one of the Canaanite sacred places (Baal-Zaphon) and the most sacred place in Israel. In other words, it is not Baal-Zaphon where God can be encountered, but Mt. Zion.

In Isaiah 14:13 the king of Babylon says, “I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon.” This seems to use the term Zaphon in the same way that Psalm 48:2 does; however, the interpretation is complicated by the context. Some see this passage as referring to Satan and his sin of pride that brought on the fall, while others believe this refers only to the Babylonian king and his sin of pride (no doubt inspired by Satan). In either case, the point is that the individual speaking attempted to exalt himself above the most sacred site(s).

In conclusion, Zaphon is a city in Israel of no particular significance, but the name of the city takes on a sacred significance for Canaanites, and that may color the way the term is used in biblical literature. "
https://www.gotquestions.org/Zaphon-in-the-Bible.html

 

[TheLearner]

Bible Dictionary
Zaphon

(zay' pahn) Place name meaning, “north.” 1. City east of the Jordan River in Gad's territory (Joshua 13:27 ). It was probably a center of worship of the god Baal-zaphon in the days of Canaanite supremacy before the Gadites took over. It is identified with tell el-Qos, tell es-Saidiye, or tell el-Mazar. Shophan (Numbers 32:35 ) may be another spelling of the same city. 2. Mountain viewed as home of the gods in Canaanite thought, perhaps referred to in Psalm 48:2 (NIV), Isaiah 14:13 (NRSV), and Job 26:7 (NRSV), showing Yahweh controls what Canaan thought their gods possessed.
Copyright Statement
These dictionary topics are from the Holman Bible Dictionary, published by Broadman & Holman, 1991. All rights reserved. Used by permission of Broadman & Holman.

Bibliography Information
Butler, Trent C. Editor. Entry for 'Zaphon'. Holman Bible Dictionary.
https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/eng/hbd/z/zaphon.html. 1991.
https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/eng/hbd/z/zaphon.html

 

[TheLearner]

Baalzephon in the Infernal Dictionary by Collin de Plancy.
Baal-zephon (Hebrew: בַּעַל צְפֹן‎ Baʿal Ṣəfōn; Akkadian: Bēl Ḫazi (dIM ḪUR.SAG); Ugaritic: baʿlu ṣapāni; Hurrian: Tešub Ḫalbağe;[1] Egyptian: bꜥr ḏꜣpwnꜣ), was the form of the Canaanite storm god Baʿal (lit. "The Lord") in his role as lord of Mount Zaphon;[1][n 1] he is identified in the Ugaritic texts as Hadad.[6][7] Because of the mountain's importance and location, it came to metonymously signify "north" in Hebrew;[8] the name is therefore sometimes given in translation as Lord of the North.[n 2] He was equated with the Greek god Zeus in his form Zeus Kasios and later with the Roman Jupiter Casius.

Because Baʿal Zaphon was considered a protector of maritime trade, sanctuaries were constructed in his honor around the Mediterranean by his Canaanite and Phoenician devotees.[1] "Baal-zephon" thereby also became a placename, most notably a location mentioned in the Hebrew Scriptures' Book of Exodus as the location where the Israelites miraculously crossed the Red Sea during their exodus from Egypt.

God
The name Baʿal Zaphon never appears in the mythological texts discovered at Ugarit. Instead, it occurs in guides to ritual and in letters, where it is used to differentiate this form of Baʿal from others such as Baʿal Ugarit.[1] The earliest discovered depiction of the god—where he stands astride two mountains in a smiting posture—dates to the 18th century BC.[1] Other depictions show him crowned and bearing a scepter.[1] As a protector of maritime trade, his temples also received votive stone anchors.[10] The treaty between Asarhaddon and King Baʿal of Tyre ranks Baʿal Zaphon third behind Baʿal Shamem and Baʿal Malage.[10] In addition to his temple at Jebel Aqra and Ugarit, Baʿal Zaphon is known to have been worshipped at Tyre and Carthage and served as the chief god of the colony at Tahpanes.[10]

A 14th-century letter from the king of Ugarit to the Egyptian pharaoh places Baʿal Zaphon as equivalent to Amun.[10] Temples to Zeus Kasios are attested in Egypt, Athens, Epidauros, Delos, Corfu, Sicily, and Spain, with the last mention occurring on Rome's German border in the 3rd century.[10]

 

[TheLearner]

Z
BAAL-ZEPHON.
By: Morris Jastrow, Jr., Frants Buhl, Marcus Jastrow, Louis Ginzberg
Table of Contents
—Biblical Data:
—In Rabbinical Literature:
—Biblical Data:
An Egyptian locality in the neighborhood of the Red Sea. In spite of all attempted combinations (Dillmann-Ryssell on Ex. xiv. 2) its situation is still unknown. An Egyptian god, B'irati Dapuna—that is, Ba'alat Ẓaphon—is mentioned by the Egyptians themselves (W. Max Müller, "Asien und Europa," p. 315). The name calls to mind the Phenician , which designates both a god and a place. It particularly signifies a city on Mount Lebanon, which, in the opinion of H. Winckler, occurs also in the Old Testament; for he interprets Jer. xv. 12, ("Alttestamentliche Untersuchungen," p. 179), as "iron of Baalzephon." However, it is not certain whether the Egyptian city and the Egyptian god Ba'alat Ẓaphon are directly connected with the Phenician name of a god.
https://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/2257-baal-zephon

 

[TheLearner]

"In Ancient Near Eastern religions class, we’ve been discussing where the gods live. At least beginning with the Sumerians (perhaps earlier, but since writing hadn’t been invented, we can’t know) the gods typically dwelt on a high mountain. Older writings on Sumerian religion call this the mountain of “Heaven-Earth,” a name that conveys the point, but also misleads. The concept of “Heaven” is much later than the Sumerians, and in western religions, later than the Hebrew Bible. “Heaven” in this sense is nothing more than sanctified sky. The gods live up there, beyond all the trouble we encounter down here. The idea proved remarkably resilient, stretching through the concepts of Mount Sinai, and Mount Zion in the Bible, and Mount Zaphon among the Ugaritians. Even the Greeks found their gods on Mount Olympus. "https://steveawiggins.com/tag/mount-zaphon/

 

[TheLearner]

In short the mountian the king was trying to be above the false gods there.

 

[TheLearner]

Interesting Read here on Isaiah 14 ---Read all for yourselves ---I just posted some of it

https://bible-studys.org/isaiah-chapter-14/

Isaiah Chapter 14
Verses 1-14: This section is a song of triumph over Babylon. The nation that will one day send Judah into captivity will herself be severely judged by God. In spite of this displeasure with Israel, there is coming a time when He will have mercy on Jacob and will choose Israel.

This refers to Israel’s future restoration in her own land. Hell (Sheol), is the Old Testament name for the abode of the dead, a fiery place of judgment for the unrighteous. In the proverb used here the king of Babylon is viewed as being welcomed into hell by the kings of the nations (Gentiles), who are astonished that he has become weak as they.

In the first three verses, the primary view is the prophet looking at the final Babylon at the end of the tribulation. The language is that which characterizes conditions during the millennial kingdom after the judgment of the final Babylon. The destruction of future Babylon is integrally connected with the deliverance of Israel from bondage. Babylon must perish so that the Lord may exalt His people. God’s compassion for physical Israel receives fuller development (in chapters 40-46).

Verses 12-14, “Fallen from heaven … I will be like the most High”. Jesus’ use (of verse 12), to describe Satan’s fall (Luke 10:18; Rev. 12:8-10), has led many to see more than a reference to the king of Babylon. Just as the Lord addressed Satan in His words to the serpent (in Genesis 3:14-15), this inspired dirge speaks to the king of Babylon and to the devil who energized him. (see Ezekiel 28:12-17), for similar language to the king of Tyre and Satan behind him.

Isaiah 14:12 “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!”

The scene suddenly shifts from the underworld to heaven to emphasize the unbridled pride of the king and Satan energizing him. Son of the morning, translated star of the morning. Tradition of the time saw the stars as representing gods battling among themselves for places of preeminence.

The devil, or Satan, was named Lucifer in heaven, and he was proud and arrogant. His desire was to be God. He is a counterfeit.

Everything God has done that is beautiful, the devil tries to copy. He is so evil himself, that everything he does in the way of a copy becomes evil too. Beautiful, spiritual music is from God. Satan’s counterfeit, which I believe we see in much of the rock music today, is a sickening example of what Satan does with everything he touches.

Lucifer most certainly refers to Satan. Now we see the real power behind the Gentile monarchs. Thus, Isaiah uses that fall of Satan, which is an assumed fact, to illustrate the fall of the Babylonian king. The name Lucifer is actually the Latin designation for the morning star (literarily, Light bearer”). The Hebrew (helel), means the “bright one.” As the morning star speedily disappears before the rising sun, so Satan, the angel of light, will be banished to outer darkness by the coming of the Son of God.
Lucifer wants to be as God.

Verses 13-14: We find five “I wills” emphasizing the arrogance of the king of Babylon and of Satan, from whom he takes his cue.

Isaiah 14:13 “For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:”

The mount of the congregation or the mount of the assembly was a mountain in northern Syria, according to local tradition, where the Canaanite gods assemble. The human king aspired to kingship over those gods.

This is not only speaking of Lucifer here, but all who hunger for power and greed. The king of Babylon (literally), and Lucifer are both intended. You could include in that all who desire to be God. Notice the “I will” statements.

This is a statement from someone who is not speaking of doing this through the power and might of God, but believing that they have power to control all of this within themselves. This is a very arrogant attitude. In the main sense, this is Lucifer, himself. He is thinking of himself as God.

Isaiah 14:14 “I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.”

The Babylonians, and many today, want to be God. The father of all of this evil thinking was Lucifer, himself. He was one of the three archangels mentioned in the Bible. He was so powerful in heaven that a third of the angels followed him.

Isaiah 14:15 “Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.”

We see that the will of man, or Lucifer, following their fleshly desires (their own will), brings them to total destruction and eventually an eternity in hell.

Death awaits those who try to be like God.

Verses 16-21. The final section of the dirge elaborates on the disgrace of the king, on display before all as an unburied corpse.

Isaiah 14:16 “They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, [and] consider thee, [saying, Is] this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;”

A king who has fallen under God’s judgment is no better off than the people he tricked into believing he had great power. They are both in hell together. The very same thing is true of the devil, Satan, or Lucifer. Jesus defeated him on the cross. He is a defeated foe.

wrong brother, friend, Satan is not called Lucifer. The text in full refers to the King in the grave..


The kings of other nations lie buried with honor,
each king with his own grave.
19 But you were thrown out of your grave
like a branch cut from a tree and thrown away.
You are like a dead man who fell in battle,
trampled under the feet of other soldiers.
Now you look like any other dead man
wrapped in burial clothes.
20 Other kings have their own graves,
but you will not join them,
because you ruined your own country
and killed your own people.
So your wicked descendants will be stopped.

 

[TheLearner]

But that did not happen.
You were brought down to the deep pit—Sheol, the place of death.

 

[TheLearner]

Someone already showed that demons do not go down to the same place as humans do.

ISAIAH 14:15
KJ21
Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
ASV
Yet thou shalt be brought down to Sheol, to the uttermost parts of the pit.
AMP
“But [in fact] you will be brought down to Sheol, To the remote recesses of the pit (the region of the dead).
AMPC
Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol (Hades), to the innermost recesses of the pit (the region of the dead).
BRG
Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
CSB
But you will be brought down to Sheol into the deepest regions of the Pit.
CEB
But down to the underworld you are brought, to the depths of the pit.
CJB
“Instead you are brought down to Sh’ol, to the uttermost depths of the pit.
CEV
But now you are deep in the world of the dead.
DARBY
none the less art thou brought down to Sheol, to the recesses of the pit.
DRA
But yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, into the depth of the pit.
ERV
But that did not happen. You were brought down to the deep pit—Sheol, the place of death.
EHV
But you will be brought down to the grave, to the bottom of the pit.
ESV
But you are brought down to Sheol, to the far reaches of the pit.
ESVUK
But you are brought down to Sheol, to the far reaches of the pit.
EXB
But you were brought down to ·the grave [or the place of the dead; L Sheol], to the deep places ·where the dead are [L of the pit].
GNV
But thou shalt be brought down to the grave, to the side of the pit.
GW
But you’ve been brought down to Sheol, to the deepest part of the pit.
GNT
But instead, you have been brought down to the deepest part of the world of the dead.
HCSB
But you will be brought down to Sheol into the deepest regions of the Pit.
ICB
But you were brought down to the grave. You were brought down to the deep places where the dead are.
ISV
But you are brought down to join the dead, to the far reaches of the Pit.
JUB
Yet thou shalt be cast down to Sheol, to the sides of the pit.
KJV
Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
AKJV
Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
LSB
Nevertheless you will be brought down to Sheol, To the recesses of the pit.
LEB
But you are brought down to Sheol, to the depths of the pit.
TLB
But instead, you will be brought down to the pit of hell, down to its lowest depths.
MSG
But you didn’t make it, did you? Instead of climbing up, you came down— Down with the underground dead, down to the abyss of the Pit. People will stare and muse: “Can this be the one Who terrorized earth and its kingdoms, turned earth to a moonscape, Wasted its cities, shut up his prisoners to a living death?”
MEV
Yet you shall be brought down to Hell, to the sides of the pit.
NOG
But you’ve been brought down to Sheol, to the deepest part of the pit.
NABRE
No! Down to Sheol you will be brought to the depths of the pit!
NASB
Nevertheless you will be brought down to Sheol, To the recesses of the pit.
NASB1995
“Nevertheless you will be thrust down to Sheol, To the recesses of the pit.
NCB
Instead you have been hurled down to the netherworld, to the depths of the abyss.
NCV
But you were brought down to the grave, to the deep places where the dead are.
NET
But you were brought down to Sheol, to the remote slopes of the Pit.
NIRV
But now you have been brought down to the place of the dead. You have been thrown into the deepest part of the pit.
NIV
But you are brought down to the realm of the dead, to the depths of the pit.
NIVUK
But you are brought down to the realm of the dead, to the depths of the pit.
NKJV
Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, To the lowest depths of the Pit.
NLV
But you will be brought down to the place of the dead, to the bottom of the grave.
NLT
Instead, you will be brought down to the place of the dead, down to its lowest depths.
NRSVA
But you are brought down to Sheol, to the depths of the Pit.
NRSVACE
But you are brought down to Sheol, to the depths of the Pit.
NRSVCE
But you are brought down to Sheol, to the depths of the Pit.
NRSVUE
But you are brought down to Sheol, to the depths of the Pit.
OJB
Yet thou shalt be brought down to Sheol, to the lowest depths of the bor (pit).
RSV
But you are brought down to Sheol, to the depths of the Pit.
RSVCE
But you are brought down to Sheol, to the depths of the Pit.
TLV
Yet you will be brought down to Sheol, to the lowest parts of the Pit.
VOICE
Hah! Instead, you have sunk like a stone to where the dead abide. You’ve hit bottom of the bottommost pit.
WEB
Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, to the depths of the pit.
WYC
Nevertheless thou shalt be drawn down to hell, into the depth of the pit.
YLT
Only -- unto Sheol thou art brought down, Unto the sides of the pit.

 

[TheLearner]

You are quite right. That does not make the interpretation wrong. How well do you know the culture of that day? How well did the Babylonians and Israelites know Greek mythology?

"Historical context" can be a euphemism for rejecting God's word. I hear things like they had no time outs in the Bible so it is wrong to spank your kids. I hear justification for homosexual relationships or that wives no longer need to submit to their husbands.

If the world was a better place because people disobey God's word, you might have a point. It is not. Australian prisons are filling up with violent and murderous children who boast about stabbing people to death. And the do-gooder's say it's wrong to lock them up. If the parents took control, the kids would not be running riot.

I believe that the Holy Spirit revealed to me that Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 refer to Satan as well as the natural rulers. That's good enough for me.

I only used Greek mythology as a way of explaining the text, a comparision of something similiar. Brother, friend.

 

[TheLearner]

good discussion all

 

[TheLearner]

'Then Athtar the Awesome climbed Mount Zaphon,
Ascended the throne of Ba'al the Almighty.
But his feet did not reach the footstool,
His head did not touch the headrest.
Then, Athar the Awesome spoke,
. . . . .
'I cannot serve as king,
I cannot dwell on the heights of Zaphon!'
So, Athtar the Awesome descended,
Stepped down from the throne of Ba'al the Almighty.
He became king of the Underworld,
Lord of the River of the Dead.'
(Victor Matthews, Don Benjamin, Old Testament Parallels 166).

 

[TheLearner]

I think this may have been what someone referred to. wife is kick me off again.

"
In ancient Greek mythology, Tartarus was a horrible pit of torment in the afterlife. It was lower than even Hades, the place of the dead. According to the Greeks, Tartarus was populated by ferocious monsters and the worst of criminals.

The Greek word Tartarus appears only once in the entire New Testament. Second Peter 2:4 says, “God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to [Tartarus], putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment.” Most English versions translate tartarus as “hell” or “lowest hell.” The word Tartarus can be defined as “the deepest abyss of Hades.”

Another place in Scripture that mentions sinning angels is Genesis 6:1–4 where “the sons of God” took control of human women and their progeny. According to Jude 1:6, some angels “abandoned their proper dwelling” in the heavens. For this crime, God cast them into Tartarus where they are held “in pits of gloom” (AMP) for a later judgment. It seems that Tartarus was what the demons feared in Luke 8:31.

Peter’s mention of Tartarus is in the context of condemning false teachers. Those who secretly introduce heresy into the church will suffer a fate similar to that of the angels who sinned—they will end up in Tartarus. The Lord does not tolerate those who lead His children astray (Matthew 18:6). "
https://www.gotquestions.org/what-is-tartarus.html

Googled tartarus

 

[studentoftheword]

wrong brother, friend, Satan is not called Lucifer. The text in full refers to the King in the grave..

OR just maybe your Wrong brother =====just to clarify ---I am not a Brother ---more of a Sister -----

Isaiah 14 Is a prophecy -----you need to do more research on what Isaiah 14 is saying -------

Your Quote here ----
Satan is not called Lucifer.

I say ---I think your understanding here is a bit off ---you need to go back to Genesis and get proper understanding of the scripture ------------Lucifer became Satan ----Lucifer had a name change ------

Just like Sinners have a name change ------we were Sinners ---but became Saints ----Lucifer became Satan

your Quote here
The text in full refers to the King in the grave..


You need to go back and read Isaiah 13 then go to 14 ---as they sort of go together ----

You will see this is about the Lord's Day of Wrath ------

https://seekthegospeltruth.com/2021...epic-fall-of-babylon-and-the-evil-one-happen/
Isaiah 13-14: When Will The Epic Fall Of Babylon And The Evil One Happen?
Bible Prophecy, Bible Study, Prophets

Isaiah 13 – Proclamation Against Babylon
6 Wail, for the day of the Lord is at hand!
It will come as destruction from the Almighty.
7 Therefore all hands will be limp,
Every man’s heart will melt,
8 And they will be afraid.
Pangs and sorrows will take hold of them;
They will be in pain as a woman in childbirth;
They will be amazed at one another;
Their faces will be like flames.

9 Behold, the day of the Lord comes,
Cruel, with both wrath and fierce anger,
To lay the land desolate;
And He will destroy its sinners from it.
10 For the stars of heaven and their constellations
Will not give their light;
The sun will be darkened in its going forth,
And the moon will not cause its light to shine.

11 “I will punish the world for its evil,
And the wicked for their iniquity;
I will halt the arrogance of the proud,
And will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

Isaiah 14

For the Lord will have mercy on Jacob, and will still choose Israel, and settle them in their own land. The strangers will be joined with them, and they will cling to the house of Jacob. 2 Then people will take them and bring them to their place, and the house of Israel will possess them for servants and maids in the land of the Lord; they will take them captive whose captives they were, and rule over their oppressors.​

Fall of the King of Babylon

3 It shall come to pass in the day the Lord gives you rest from your sorrow, and from your fear and the hard bondage in which you were made to serve, 4 that you will take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say:​

“How the oppressor has ceased,
The golden city ceased!

The Fall of Lucifer

12 “How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
13 For you have said in your heart:
‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’
15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
To the lowest depths of the Pit.​

Who Is Lucifer in the Bible? - David Jeremiah Blog
https://davidjeremiah.blog › who-is-lucifer

‎Lucifer Became Satan · ‎Satan Wants to Destroy You · ‎Satan's Fate Is Sealed

Lucifer was one of God's angels—a magnificent being. The prophet Ezekiel described him as “the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty…. Every ...
‎Lucifer Became Satan · ‎Satan Wants to Destroy You · ‎Satan's Fate Is Sealed
https://harvest.org/know-god-article/the-origin-and-fall-of-the-devil/

The Origin and Fall of the Devil - Harvest.org
https://harvest.org › Know God Articles

Lucifer (“star of the morning”) became Satan (“accuser”) when he fell to the earth. Jesus, speaking of this event, said, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from ..

So there TheLearner -----you can think that Lucifer is not Satan in Isaiah 14 and if your thinking that Lucifer is the name of the King here ---then I say ------I think your a confused Brother ------