I partially agree with you. The purpose is not to eternally save souls to heaven. I believe Jesus accomplished that on the cross when he said it is finished. The purpose of the church is to teach those born again believers who are yet babes in Christ to wean them from the milk of the gospel and teach them the meat of the gospel.
Where is the church
- Thread starter ForestGreenCook
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Your first statement I am in agreement with but I differ with you on Acts 2:38. These Jews that Peter was preaching to had already been born again and given a fleshy heart that can be PRICKED to feel guilty, unlike those that stoned Steven to death who were CUT TO THE HEART. 1 Pet 3:20-21 - When once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is eight souls were saved by water (They were fiscally saved from drowning, not eternally saved). 21- The like figure whereunto, even baptism doth also now save us (not eternally, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the ANSWER OF A GOOD CONSCIENCE toward God.)
So it's just idle interest then?
What I see in mind is a picture of a friend of mine who just treated things like fantasy films. Like "oh I just wanted to see what you would say." Uh, why?
Of course, his responses were fabricated things designed to evoke a response. That I most certainly took issue with. This doesn't strike me as intentionally seeking to cause dissention though, just that's a base for where I'm coming from.
I had one person of tell me that was witchcraft when I used to do it when I was younger. In a way it is manipulative and in a way it is "peeking". I didn't agree at the time, but regardless it shocked me out of it, and I do think there is something to "wizards who peep".
Curiosity without borders opens one up to attack. I've felt "pricked" about it in the past so just putting that forward.
Some things aren't for idle interest and are improper to bring up, unless you feel specifically led to do so.
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LUKE 13:28.
There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob,
and ALL the prophets, (in The Kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out).
HEB. 11:7.
By Faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark
to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world,
and became Heir of The Righteousness which is by FAITH.
ROMANS 8:17.
And if children, then HEIRS; HEIRS of God, and (joint-heirs with Christ); if so be that we 'suffer' with Him,
that we may be also (glorified together).
EPH. 2:8.
For by Grace are you 'saved through Faith'; and that not of yourselves: it is 'The Gift of God':
as it is written:
'GENESIS 6:8.
But Noah found Grace in The Eyes of The LORD.
Evangelism is not part of Christian mission? Jesus did not mandate the Great Commission? Paul risked his life for what? ...maybe we're talking two different things here? I'm sorry, but the main purpose of the Church is to evangelize in the name of Jesus i.e. be fruitful. And yes, pastoral efforts also, like you said, but without exception, mainly evangelism.
This is the true church. It cannot be destroyed.
We also have a building we go to to worship God, and we are put in charge of that place. We need to keep it truly under God and not let it be fleshly at all. This place can be harmed by men as we saw happened before the protestant revolution. This church has gone through many changes, we need to check out all it is with scripture, for in scripture we find what God wants for his earthly church.
The key to this seems to center around the conflict between God's chosen people and the gentiles. At first they tolerated each other so well they worshiped together. Is that what God wants? That answer is in a correct understanding of Romans, but we are very divided on that understanding.
We have a brand new idea for the earthly church that happened about the same time that scripture prophecy began to come about with the return of Israel as a nation and the dead sea scrolls opened up ancient Hebrew understanding, and that was in what we call the roots movement. They listen more closely to the OT teachings. We know that those teachings must be listened to with new covenant understanding.
The earthly church has lost much of its power. It is God who runs the world, not secular power and the church has lost much of its power so something is wrong. The earthly church needs to find out where it is not following God, for in that is the power of the earthly church.
The kingdom of God does not have reference to eternal heaven, but to the church. In post #14 you will find the explanation of the invisible church and the visible church. Luke 13:28 Jesus is talking to those eternally saved people who are members of the invisible church telling them that they were thrust out of the visible church because of their lack of knowledge of the fullness of the gospel of Jesus. We became heirs of heaven by the faithfulness of Jesus in going to the cross. Eph 2:8 does not have reference to our faith, lest we should boast, but it has reference to the faithfulness of Christ. Gal 2:16 will support Eph 2:8. Our faith that we receive, as one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit, when we have been born of the Holy Spirit in the new birth Gal 5:22.
A preacher can never "evangelis" (which is not a word from the scriptures, but man made) the natural man before he has been born of the Spirit in the new birth because he thinks the things of the Spirit is foolishness (1 Cor 2:14). That is why Jesus instructed his Apostles to go and preach to the lost sheep (born again believers that do not understand the fullness of the gospel) of the house of Israel.(Matt 10:5-6) Eternally saved children of God have been taught a false doctrine by preachers who do not understand the fullness of the gospel (Jer 50:6).
I don't know if you are in agreement with my post #14, but the scriptures support the fact that the visible church, which congregate in a building, will always be considered but a few in number as compared to the invisible church. To me, the strait gate and narrow way that leads to (an abundant life, not eternal) and few there be that find it, supports this same thought
Do you think that because the true church of the Lord is not the visible church that we should not do all we can to make the visible church reflect only truth of the Lord?
Ideally this would be the objective. But as you know the visible Church -- Christendom -- is split into numerous divisions, many of them committed irrevocably to their false teachings.
That is THE most ridiculous and unbiblical statement I have come across all week.
Sorry FGC, you are way too Calvanistic for me. You are dismissing evangelism due to your presupposition of pre-election. Jesus said to preach to the lost house of Israel because they were the chosen ones of God, and have not yet come to the truth about the Messiah. He was not talking about already saved people. Eternally saved, is eternally saved, no need to preach right or wrong doctrine as, according to you, it's incidental. Sorry FGC, you are speaking very strange things. BTW, Evangel means gospels or good news, even angel is derived from it. That shouldn't deter you from using it.
In your view, by what process do people move from "completely disconnected from God" to "babes in Christ"?