When God spoke to Israel was it for gentiles, also?

[Whispered]

You are obsessed with the Israelites, when they have been long gone. Are you thinking of time travel?

Today we have either (a) believing Jews who accept Jesus as their Messiah or (b) unbelieving Jews who reject Jesus. Take your pick.

Oh, goodness, I would direct you and all who take your words as truth to recall The Truth found in the Book of Isaiah and chapter 49. A prophecy yet to be fulfilled and yet shall be by God's decree and will. Which is even more evidence that the Old Testament is not at all obsolete.
Reading the entire chapter gives context.
The Book of Isaiah chapter and verse 6 and 7 He says, “It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant To raise up the tribes of Jacob and to restore the preserved ones of Israel;I will also make You a light of the nations So that My salvation may reach to the end of the earth.” Thus says the Lord, the Redeemer of Israel and its Holy One,To the despised One,To the One abhorred by the nation,To the Servant of rulers,“Kings will see and arise,Princes will also bow down,Because of the Lord who is faithful, the Holy One of Israel who has chosen You.”

 

[Magenta]

Oh, goodness, I would direct you and all who take your words as truth to recall The Truth found in the Book of Isaiah and chapter 49. A prophecy yet to be fulfilled and yet shall be by God's decree and will. Which is even more evidence that the Old Testament is not at all obsolete.
Reading the entire chapter gives context.
The Book of Isaiah chapter and verse 6 and 7 He says, “It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant To raise up the tribes of Jacob and to restore the preserved ones of Israel;I will also make You a light of the nations So that My salvation may reach to the end of the earth.” Thus says the Lord, the Redeemer of Israel and its Holy One,To the despised One,To the One abhorred by the nation,To the Servant of rulers,“Kings will see and arise,Princes will also bow down,Because of the Lord who is faithful, the Holy One of Israel who has chosen You.”

Has someone, anyone, said the old testament is obsolete? I mean here in this thread Since it lays the groundwork for Christ, I cannot see it as obsolete at all. However, what is obsolete is/are the covenant/s made such (as per Scripture) by the new covenant instituted by Jesus Christ with the shedding of His righteous blood for the forgiveness of sin. The Temple sacrificial system was a foreshadowing of the once-and-for-all substitutionary offering of God’s Son for all who believe.

 

[Whispered]

Has someone, anyone, said the old testament is obsolete? I mean here in this thread Since it lays the groundwork for Christ, I cannot see it as obsolete at all. However, what is obsolete is/are the covenant/s made such (as per Scripture) by the new covenant instituted by Jesus Christ with the shedding of His righteous blood for the forgiveness of sin. The Temple sacrificial system was a foreshadowing of the once-and-for-all substitutionary offering of God’s Son for all who believe.

But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator
is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises. Hebrews 8:6

By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete;
and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear. Hebrews 8:13

You insist on calling it "added"? Let go of the old, dear. It is made obsolete.

Post#5

 

[Magenta]

But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator
is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises. Hebrews 8:6

By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete;
and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear. Hebrews 8:13

You insist on calling it "added"? Let go of the old, dear. It is made obsolete.

Post#5

Yes? And? Your point is what? You quote what I said, but to what end?
I am not calling the old testament obsolete. I have multiple times affirmed its purpose.

Has anyone said (in this thread) that the old testament is obsolete?

 

[Whispered]

Yes? And? Your point is what? You quote what I said, but to what end?
I am not calling the old testament obsolete. I have multiple times affirmed its purpose.

Has anyone said (in this thread) that the old testament is obsolete?

I shall let your words in post 5 of this thread speak for themselves. That is the point.
You said the old testament is obsolete in this thread and on page 1 of the discussion. No equivocation. You said the old testament, covenant, is obsolete. I don't know why you deny your own writing now. That is between you and your conscience to what end only God knows.

But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator
is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises. Hebrews 8:6

By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete;
and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear. Hebrews 8:13

You insist on calling it "added"? Let go of the old, dear. It is made obsolete.
https://christianchat.com/threads/w...-was-it-for-gentiles-also.187008/post-4012638

 

[Magenta]

I shall let your words in post 5 of this thread speak for themselves. That is the point.
You said the old testament is obsolete in this thread and on page 1 of the discussion. No equivocation. You said the old testament, covenant, is obsolete. I don't know why you deny your own writing now. That is between you and your conscience to what end only God knows.

But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator
is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises. Hebrews 8:6

By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete;
and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear. Hebrews 8:13

You insist on calling it "added"? Let go of the old, dear. It is made obsolete.
https://christianchat.com/threads/w...-was-it-for-gentiles-also.187008/post-4012638

I am sorry to say you have completely misunderstood me and at the same time shown you are incapable of understanding Scripture, since that is what my post QUOTED in direct relation to the old covenant being made obsolete by the new, and NOT to the old testament as a whole, which you now multiple times have falsely accused me of despite my repeatedly affirming its purpose. Shall we call @CharliRenee in to show her the logical fallacy of strawman? Yours is a perfect example.

 

[Magenta]

You said the old testament is obsolete in this thread and on page 1 of the discussion. No equivocation.

That is a flat out lie. You are now in league with the devil

 

[Nehemiah6]

Which is even more evidence that the Old Testament is not at all obsolete.

Who said anything about the OT being obsolete?

The discussion is about the Old Covenant given to the Israelites (which is within the OT). If the Old Covenant was perfect, there would have been no need for the New Covenant.

For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a New Covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah... (Heb 8:7,8)

The day Christ died and said "IT IS FINISHED" the Old Covenant came to an end. The temple at Jerusalem was central to the Old Covenant, and once the veil in the temple was torn in two from top to bottom by God, that was the end of temple worship and sacrifices (even though it took another 40 years for that to sink in).

Because the New Covenant was with Israel (the kingdoms of Israel and Judah) the Gospel was preached first to the Jews, then to the Gentiles. And the Church was firstly the *good olive tree* of believing Jews followed by the *wild olive* branches of Gentiles being grafted into to the *good olive tree*. Eventually Christ have Paul the revelation of the Church (all redeemed Jews and Gentiles in one Body, with no distinction between Jew and Gentiles.

 

[Whispered]

I am sorry to say you have completely misunderstood me and at the same time shown you are incapable of understanding Scripture, since that is what my post QUOTED in direct relation to the old covenant being made obsolete by the new, and NOT to the old testament as a whole, which you now multiple times have falsely accused me of despite my repeatedly affirming its purpose. Shall we call @CharliRenee in to show her the logical fallacy of strawman? Yours is a perfect example.

If that were the case I doubt very much you would have repeatedly asked the question, who said the Old Testament was obsolete?
When all along it was you yourself who said the old testament is obsolete.
The rest of your remarks I believe are reflective of desperation in casting blame because you are not old enough to accept responsibility for your own error.

God be with you.

 

[Magenta]

Who said anything about the OT being obsolete?

It appears to have become a popular falsehood to tell

 

[Magenta]

If that were the case I doubt very much you would have repeatedly asked the question, who said the Old Testament was obsolete?
When all along it was you yourself who said the old testament is obsolete.
The rest of your remarks I believe are reflective of desperation in casting blame because you are not old enough to accept responsibility for your own error.

God be with you.

I quoted you saying the following, which prompted my question:

Oh, goodness, I would direct you and all who take your words as truth to recall The Truth found in the Book of Isaiah and chapter 49. A prophecy yet to be fulfilled and yet shall be by God's decree and will. Which is even more evidence that the Old Testament is not at all obsolete.

I hope you can see that now and leave off with your false accusations.

If that were the case I doubt very much you would have repeatedly asked the question, who said the Old Testament was obsolete?
When all along it was you yourself who said the old testament is obsolete.

I said no such thing, yet you persist in your lie.

 

[Dino246]

If that were the case I doubt very much you would have repeatedly asked the question, who said the Old Testament was obsolete?
When all along it was you yourself who said the old testament is obsolete.
The rest of your remarks I believe are reflective of desperation in casting blame because you are not old enough to accept responsibility for your own error.

God be with you.

Whispered, may I suggest that you carefully re-read Magenta's post #5 from page 1? I just did, and she did not say that the old testament is obsolete. She said the old covenant is, which is what Scripture itself says. While the words "testament" and "covenant" are close synonyms, in this context they do mean different things.

Her closing comment, directed to Blik, clearly refers to the old covenant as well.

Let's put an end to this animosity, shall we?

 

[Magenta]

Whispered, may I suggest that you carefully re-read Magenta's post #5 from page 1? I just did, and she did not say that the old testament is obsolete. She said the old covenant is, which is what Scripture itself says. While the words "testament" and "covenant" are close synonyms, in this context they do mean different things.

Her closing comment, directed to Blik, clearly refers to the old covenant as well.

Let's put an end to this animosity, shall we?

He has read it and quoted it and referenced it multiple times but does not have eyes to see.

 

[Whispered]

Whispered, may I suggest that you carefully re-read Magenta's post #5 from page 1? I just did, and she did not say that the old testament is obsolete. She said the old covenant is, which is what Scripture itself says. While the words "testament" and "covenant" are close synonyms, in this context they do mean different things.

Her closing comment, directed to Blik, clearly refers to the old covenant as well.

Let's put an end to this animosity, shall we?

I assure you, as my posts reflect, I hold no animosity here.

 

[Magenta]

I assure you, as my posts reflect, I hold no animosity here.

Yet you repeatedly lie and falsely accuse. Something is off.

 

[Whispered]

Yet you repeatedly lie and falsely accuse. Something is off.

Yes, there is. As I said, not one of my replies have ever shown animosity to this subject or even your postings. You however, appear to be quite upset.

Maybe this will help you in future to understand covenant and testament in the words of God are used interchangeably.
In your remarks: "But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator
is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises. Hebrews 8:6

By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete;
and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear. Hebrews 8:13

You insist on calling it "added"? Let go of the old, dear. It is made obsolete. "

That is what drew my attention to say, the old covenant, testament, is not obsolete.


THE OLD COVENANT AND THE NEW COVENANT by Boyce Mouton

Life is filled with Aagreements@ or Acovenants@. Before signing an agreement, or entering into a covenant, it is wise to understand
the nature of that covenant. Human judges render verdicts every day based upon what participating parties agree by Acovenant@ to do. God has also written a covenant and will someday render His eternal verdict based upon His covenant. Nothing is more important than understanding the nature of our covenant relationship with God.

Let us begin our study by pointing out that in the Bible the words Acovenant@ and Atestament@ are used interchangeably. The Hebrew word for Acovenant@ is Aberith@. The word Atestament@ is not found in the Old Testament Scriptures. In the New Testament Scriptures the Greek word Adiatheke@ is used to translate Aberith@. In the KJV it is translated as both testament and covenant (Atestament@ in 2 Cor. 3:6, 14; Heb. 7:22; 9:15 - 20, etc. and Acovenant in Heb. 8:6 - 13; 9:1, 4; 10:16 etc.)
Further reading: http://www.abarc.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/The-Old-Covenant-and-the-New-Covenant.pdf

And perhaps this as well.
Why the Old Covenant is not obsolete |

 

[Magenta]

Yes, there is. As I said, not one of my replies have ever shown animosity to this subject or even your postings. You however, appear to be quite upset.

Calling you out on your dishonesty does not mean I am upset. It means I am calling you out on your dishonesty.
Projecting your imagination onto the situation does nothing to help your case.

Maybe this will help you in future to understand covenant and testament in the words of God are used interchangeably.
In your remarks: "But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator
is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises. Hebrews 8:6

By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete;
and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear. Hebrews 8:13

You insist on calling it "added"? Let go of the old, dear. It is made obsolete. "

That is what drew my attention to say, the old covenant, testament, is not obsolete.

I understand quite well. However, it was the covenant Jesus instituted with His blood that was under discussion and called new, as per Scripture, making the old obsolete, (not something to be "added to") as per Scripture. Scripture, which you as well as Blik disagree with.

I am clearly speaking of the old and new covenants as opposed to the old and new testaments.

 

[Victor1999]

Please explain what is meant by the old covenants are gone away. We know that God does not take back his promises ever. We know that the need for animal sacrifice, fleshly circumcision, and special diet is old and gone away. The rainbow is still here, and sin still means death without Christ. The covenant with Abraham is still in effect. Scripture is still scripture and is truth. What covenant is gone?

What covenant do you think these verses are taking about?

 

[garee]

There is no 'Matthew 3:25'. I think you mean Matthew 3:15, where there was a disagreement and straightforward correction, not a "heated conversation".

Thanks the reference was John3:25.The water baptism as a ceremonial law (shadow)

Heated by them claiming it broke the law .No men from Judah were allowed to officiate as priests . ( verse 25 he is baptizing men are coming to one from the tribe of Judah.

The changing of that law .. . Priests from all the nations of the world .John the last Levite after the old order made way for the new order typified as Melchedik a high priest without beginning and end of day . .. No sign gifts.

 

[Dino246]

Thanks the reference was John3:25.The water baptism as a ceremonial law (shadow)

Ah... yes, you mentioned that when you quoted the passage. I didn't see that; my apologies.

Heated by them claiming it broke the law .No men from Judah were allowed to officiate as priests . ( verse 25 he is baptizing men are coming to one from the tribe of Judah.

The passage doesn't specify what the issue was. It only says "ceremonial washings". I don't think your view is necessarily incorrect, but I would encourage you to distinguish between the text and your views.