When God comes to visit!... (a look at Genesis 18:1-22:24)

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

BenAvraham

Senior Member
Aug 30, 2015
932
298
63
#1
PARASHAH: “VaYERA” (and he appeared) GENESIS 18:1-22:24

Remember to take your time reading the "long-winded" Bible topics and studies. Each post is like a school classroom. You can always get up and take a break. Get a glass of water and come back to finish reading.

YHVH appears to Abraham at his tent, yet it also says that “three” men appeared to him. He addresses them as LORD (YHVH), how is that? One can only wonder. Could one of them be YHVH incarnate and the other two ministering angels? Could all three be a representation of ELOHIM? “Av” (father) “Ben” (son) and “Ruach HaKodesh” (Holy Spirit)? This could open up a lengthy discussion. All we know is that Abraham receives them with great hospitality. They eat and then they bless. This is pretty much how it works even today. We receive blessings from HaShem, but we often bless others and help others, and blessings follow.

Abram addresses the “the men” (Shelosh anashim) as “Adonai”. In one Hebrew-English translation, the word “lords’ is used, yet in another, the word; “Lord” is used. But in both translations, the word “Adonai” is used, which is “Master” and it is one of the names of God. The “men” are indeed “God” walking and talking with Abram. Also, it is possible that One is the "Angel of the LORD" (Malach Elohim) and the two others, ministering/destroyer angels.

Abraham shows hospitality to these “men” in that he prepares 4 items of food for them: “water, bread, milk, and meat.” It is a great mitzvah to show love and hospitality to others outside your family. Blessed are the foster parents and those parents who adopt unwanted children from other homes and bring them into their own homes as their “adopted children” just as Adonai has adopted “all believers” into HIS family through our faith in Yeshua. In that way, ALL believers are; “B’nei Elohim” (sons of God)

Adonai repays Abraham’s kindness to those “three men”. Not only does He grant Abraham and Sarah a son; “Yitzchak” but generations down the line, He provides “water” in the desert through the “ROCK” that was split, and He provides “Bread” (manna) in the desert, and of course, the cattle of the Israelites produced “milk and meat”. On another level, we see “Yeshua” all of these. Yeshua is the “Living Water” the “Bread of Life” and the Torah is our “Milk and meat”. I guess we can say that all believers start by digesting the “milk’ of the Word, the easy stuff to understand, and when we mature, we can digest the “meat” the more difficult stuff to understand.

Can we bless “Adonai?” We know that He blesses us in many ways and forms, but how do we “Bless” YHVH? “Baruch” (bless) comes from the word “Berek” which means “knee”. When we “bow” the knee in praise and worship, we are, in fact, “blessing” Adonai. We come to pray, asking for “this and that” but do we just come and thank HIM for just who He is?

He announces the birth of “Yitzchak” yet Sarah laughs in disbelief “within herself” not even out loud, or, just barely audible, yet YHVH hears her and asks “Why did Sarah laugh? Yeah, but thou didst laugh” Can anything be hidden from the LORD? Even inside us, HE KNOWS what is going on inside us, within the heart, within our minds, HE KNOWS ALL THINGS, even the “not so kosher” things. Something to think about the next time we think we are alone. We are NOT alone. Today, we hear two different kinds of "laughing" Laughing in unbelief, or mocking, and "laughing" with joy and gladness.

Abraham intercedes for Sodom and Gomorra, yet there are not even ten righteous residents of Sodom. Had Abraham asked; “Will you not spare Sodom for only ONE righteous person?” what do you think that the LORD would have answered? Maybe YES? If that had been so, then, perhaps Lot and his family might have never left the city! Lot was still considered a “Tzadik” a righteous person, yet he was living in a sinful and corrupt city. That is a dangerous position to be in, to be comfortable in a place where you have no business to be in! or participate in activities that the lost world does. “by the skin of their teeth” one might say, the angel drags Lot, his wife, and two daughters out of there before the judgment of destruction begins.

What were the sins of Sodom and Gomorra one might ask. Ezekiel 16:49 gives us an answer. Besides the sexual perversion, the people were prideful and gluttonous (enjoyed stuffing their faces with food). They didn't care about the poor and they were arrogant.

However, we can think back to when the scripture says that “Lot pitched his tent toward Sodom”. He wasn’t there yet, he was close, but then, he was INSIDE Sodom. He even bought a house, and perhaps even started a business. We read that he was “at the gates of Sodom” when he invited the angels to come to spend the night with him and his family. Those that were at the “gates” of the city, were “greeters’ sort of saying, perhaps “tour guides” maybe Lot was involved with politics. We can only guess; The Torah doesn’t go into detail about Lot’s life inside Sodom.

We know that before, he had much cattle. What happened to his cattle? Did he sell the cattle to buy the house? What happened to his tents? Traded it all for a life of “excitement?” inside the city? We must say that when families move to places or into corrupt neighborhoods, one might accept that the families also can suffer corruption.

It isn’t easy to maintain one’s testimony in a pagan society or workplace, but it isn’t impossible. Lot was considered “righteous” in the New Covenant, yet his family suffered. When the angels led Lot and his family (wife and two daughters) out of the city, they were told not to “look back” yet we remember that Lot’s wife DID look, and behold, she became a pillar of salt. She longed for her lifestyle in corrupt Sodom.

On the other hand, Lot’s daughters had sex with him and produced two sons; Moab and Ammon. The capital city Amman, in Jordan, is named after “Ammon” and the Moabites were also a corrupt, idol-worshiping people. But God has his hand in ALL situations. Remember that “Ruth” was a Moabitess, yet she became a “Y’hudit” and became part of God’s people and Ruth is in the genealogy of Messiah Yeshua. Adonai can make a negative situation or decision and do something with it, something wonderful. Light came from the darkness of Lot's cave.
 

BenAvraham

Senior Member
Aug 30, 2015
932
298
63
#2
One thing we remember from “Noach” The Torah says that “Noah was righteous in HIS generation” Does that mean that if he were living in the time of Abraham, he might not have been considered so righteous? If yes, why? Did Noah plead for the lost world before the flood? Did he ask YHVH to save the world IF there could be found a handful of righteous people? We don’t know what transpired during the years that it took Noach to build the ark. Did he preach to the people? Did he warn them of the coming judgment?

In the book of Enoch, we know that Enoch warned the giants of impending judgment. In Noah’s case, the Torah is silent. We do see that Abraham pleads for the innocent people in Sodom. We know that there were probably infants and very young kids who were innocent. Sad to say that they too were destroyed, however, they are in heaven today because they died as innocent creations.

The command of the angel to Lot and his family was “Don’t look back” yet Lot’s wife DID look back and was turned into a pillar of salt. Does it matter what YHVH turned her into? the fact of the matter is that she DID turn and looked back. This is meaningful, indicating that she “longed” for the life of Sodom. She might have thought, “I’ll take one last look and…ZAP…instant saltine cracker. Perhaps she gazed on the very “essence” of YHVH in destruction mode.

If one goes to the ruins of Sodom today, one can still find little Sulphur balls embedded in the ruins. When lighted, they emit a bluish flame. Imagine that after all these years, remnants of God’s judgment are still there. It is believed the rest of the cities of the plain are under the Dead Sea.

We also read about the birth of “Yitzchak” and later the separation of “Ishmael” and “Yitzchak”. We see a separation between the “chosen” and the “world”, but also, we see today the “wheat” and the “tares” growing together, not to say that all the Arabs are evil, there are many born-again Arabs who are the descendants of Ishmael, those who love the LORD. But for the most part, the Arabs and Israel are enemies.

We come to the last part, the final test, “Take your son, your ONLY son who you love, and offer him as a sacrifice” Now God didn’t say “Sacrifice him” only “offer him as a sacrifice” Today, we offer ourselves as “living sacrifices” before YHVH to do his perfect will, and to serve him. Abraham was willing to bring the knife down on his only son Isaac, yet the LORD did not allow him to do so, as it was a test to see his obedience and to see if he was willing to follow through with “sacrificing and spilling Isaac’s blood”.

When we read this account, we see symbolism. The “donkey” that took Father and Son to Mt Moriah, the donkey that took Yeshua to Jerusalem, later to be led to Mt. Calvary. The wood that was laid on Isaac’s back, compared to the cross beam that was laid on Yeshua’s back, or Yeshua’s back that was laid on that cross beam. The altar of stone which Abraham built compared to Calvary’s hill which is pretty much made of stone, made by our heavenly Father. The fire that was in Abraham’s hands could symbolize the fiery judgment that Yeshua took on our behalf.

Isaac symbolizes ALL of us. Yet when Abraham was ordered to take him off the altar, so we were “replaced” by Yeshua. Isaac was replaced by the ram which was caught in the thicket. The “ram” is “Yeshua” The ram’s horns were caught in the thicket, and around the head of our Mashiach was a crown of thorns.

Isaac could not be the sacrifice for sin because he, like all of us, was born in sin. The ram took Isaac’s as Yeshua took our place. In some translations, there are some interesting words spoken by Abraham. “God will provide himself as a lamb” Other translations read; “God will provide for himself a lamb” I like the first one since it explains what God did, He came down and became the sacrifice lamb, in our place. What Abraham said was prophetic

God was not willing that anyone should perish, but for ALL to have eternal life. He was not willing that Abraham should give up his only son, but God was willing to give HIS unique SON, Yeshua for the payment of our sin, one time and forever. Yeshua is both; “echad” (unity of ONE) and “Yachid” (unique, only, one of a kind)

Yeshua was willing and did undergo the “fires” of our sins, up there on that cross for a few hours, and thus made the “new covenant” that through his death and sacrifice, we might be saved. One might say symbolically a “covenant of fire” (brit esh) When we read the word “B’reisheet” (in the beginning) we can see those words, “brit esh” in the middle, just rearrange the letters around. Since “the beginning” YHVH had this in mind, to pay for our sin debt, with HIS blood.





"Let's study the WORD"
Getting into the WORD .jpg
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,736
555
113
#3
thank you, for the insights given you to share, it is informative to me to see the correlations you stated like the crown of thorns, and the donkey.
How to not look back once anyone decides to leave evil behind them. how treacherous looking back can be,
I know, since for years I was caught up under Law, trying to do it myself, even with God's help, I continued in sin and still can again, yet seeing differently now, after not giving up on God's reality of the risen Son of that cross for me to cross over with him in his resurrection, where the new life resides in love and mercy to all, Thanks friend in the risen one given us to abide in humbly so
Hebrews 10:2
For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

What has happened ever since it is done by Son for us the people, we are to not have a conscience of sin anymore, are we not? Yet we do, how why?
Romans 7 answers this truth to me anyways, again thanks Brother in the risen Son Yashua, Jesus in English
 

BenAvraham

Senior Member
Aug 30, 2015
932
298
63
#4
Thank you Homeward bound, for your comment. The statement "Under the Law" has been so misunderstood. The original word for "Law" was "Torah" which means "instruction" but it was translated to "Legis" in Latin, which means "legalism" So, are we "Under the Law?" The answers are both "Yes, and No" "NO" because we are not bound to legalism to attain salvation, because it is through faith in Messiah Yeshua only. but YES, we are "under God's instructions" in the WORD, to live a righteous, God-honoring lifestyle, The Commandments do NOT save us, they are there to guide us in righteous living only.
 

SaysWhat

Active member
Jan 17, 2024
282
53
28
#6
The bible does not declare children innnocent. All sinned ,all died in Adam.
What may be of this declaration?

Matthew 19
14 But Jesus said, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not hinder them! For the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”
 
#7
What may be of this declaration?

Matthew 19
14 But Jesus said, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not hinder them! For the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”
mt18:
6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
 

SaysWhat

Active member
Jan 17, 2024
282
53
28
#8
mt18:
6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

So if you believe your innocent?

Isiah 7
15 By the time He knows enough to reject evil and choose good, He will be eating curds and honey.

16 For before the boy knows enough to reject evil and choose good, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,824
8,624
113
#9
What were the sins of Sodom and Gomorra one might ask. Ezekiel 16:49 gives us an answer. Besides the sexual perversion, the people were prideful and gluttonous (enjoyed stuffing their faces with food). They didn't care about the poor and they were arrogant.
The sins of Sodom are far worse and more bizarre than most understand. Think in terms of Genesis 6. Think in terms of angelic beings cohabitating with men. Think in terms of wicked man's efforts at defeating the curse and changing DNA. Think in terms of forbidden and evil artificial means of life extension.

Those are the reasons (and always the reasons) for these kinds of extreme devastation mass extinction judgement events.
These are the MAIN REASONS for the conquest of Canaan in the time of Joshua (they were intentionally breeding NEPHILIM during that time in that region).

As it will also be during the 70th week of Daniel and the mark of the beast!

==============================================================================
And what is going on here? Something similar I would opine?

Jdg 19:29
And when he was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel.
Jdg 19:30
And it was so, that all that saw it said, There was no such deed done nor seen from the day that the children of Israel came up out of the land of Egypt unto this day: consider of it, take advice, and speak your minds.
 
#10
So if you believe your innocent?

Isiah 7
15 By the time He knows enough to reject evil and choose good, He will be eating curds and honey.

16 For before the boy knows enough to reject evil and choose good, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste.
1]ALL SINNED AND DIED IN ADAM,AT ONE POINT IN TIME

2] WE ARE ALL CONDEMNED, WE ARE ALL GUILTY

3]ANYONE ELECTED BY GOD ARESAVED BY MERCY, NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE INNOCENT
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,824
8,624
113
#11
One thing we remember from “Noach” The Torah says that “Noah was righteous in HIS generation”
Much more going on here.
Without blemish is the point. And righteous by desire to do God's will of course.
Both of these terms have the same Hebrew root.

Gen 6:9
These are the generations H8435 of Noah: H5146 Noah H5146 was a just H6662 man H376 and perfect H8549 in his generations, H1755 and Noah H5146 walked H1980 with God. H430

The KJV translates Strong's H8549 in the following manner: without blemish (44x), perfect (18x), upright (8x), without spot (6x), uprightly (4x), whole (4x), sincerely (2x), complete (1x), full (1x), miscellaneous (3x).

======================================================================================

Same goes for "Heel-Holder" Jacob. As opposed to "Hairy-Red" Esau.

Gen 25:27
And the boys H5288 grew: H1431 and Esau H6215 was a cunning H3045 hunter, H6718 a man H376 of the field; H7704 and Jacob H3290 was a plain H8535 man, H376 dwelling H3427 in tents. H168


The KJV translates Strong's H8535 in the following manner: perfect (9x), undefiled (2x), plain (1x), upright (1x).
 

SaysWhat

Active member
Jan 17, 2024
282
53
28
#12
1]ALL SINNED AND DIED IN ADAM,AT ONE POINT IN TIME

2] WE ARE ALL CONDEMNED, WE ARE ALL GUILTY

3]ANYONE ELECTED BY GOD ARESAVED BY MERCY, NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE INNOCENT
So the bible doesn't mention any children as being innocent, not even one?
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,824
8,624
113
#13
We know that before, he had much cattle. What happened to his cattle? Did he sell the cattle to buy the house? What happened to his tents? Traded it all for a life of “excitement?” inside the city? We must say that when families move to places or into corrupt neighborhoods, one might accept that the families also can suffer corruption.

It isn’t easy to maintain one’s testimony in a pagan society or workplace, but it isn’t impossible. Lot was considered “righteous” in the New Covenant, yet his family suffered. When the angels led Lot and his family (wife and two daughters) out of the city, they were told not to “look back” yet we remember that Lot’s wife DID look, and behold, she became a pillar of salt. She longed for her lifestyle in corrupt Sodom.
Lots wife is honored by Jesus for HER SELFLESS SACRIFICE.

The true reason she turned back was a last-ditch effort to save the rest of her family before the judgement.
She DID NOT MAKE IT, and God PRESERVED her in a pillar of salt for future resurrection in glory.

[Luk 17:31 KJV]
In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

[Luk 17:32 KJV]
Remember Lot's wife.

[Luk 17:33 KJV]
Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

Which is exactly what Lot's wife did, and she is preserved.
 

SaysWhat

Active member
Jan 17, 2024
282
53
28
#15
Lots wife is honored by Jesus for HER SELFLESS SACRIFICE.

The true reason she turned back was a last-ditch effort to save the rest of her family before the judgement.
She DID NOT MAKE IT, and God PRESERVED her in a pillar of salt for future resurrection in glory.

[Luk 17:31 KJV]
In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

[Luk 17:32 KJV]
Remember Lot's wife.

[Luk 17:33 KJV]
Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

Which is exactly what Lot's wife did, and she is preserved.
They where told not to look back or would be swept away.

Gen 19
17 As soon as the men had brought them out, one of them said, “Run for your lives! Do not look back, and do not stop anywhere on the plain! Flee to the mountains, or you will be swept away!”
 
#18
So the second Adam was innocent?
That was the reason for the Virgin birth. He had no sin as our mediator, and surety.

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Heb7:
22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
 

SaysWhat

Active member
Jan 17, 2024
282
53
28
#19
That was the reason for the Virgin birth. He had no sin as our mediator, and surety.

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Heb7:
22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
Well that's a good declaration of the virgin birth child.
 
#20
Well that's a good declaration of the virgin birth child.
1tim3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.