When does the rapture occur?

[JesusIsAll]

You could tell us what you really think about him. . .

Sorry, but I've always been painfully shy, since about 4 years old, when I caught my Dad eating the cookies he told me to leave for Santa.

 

[popeye]

[SUP]29 [/SUP]“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

“Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! [SUP]17 [/SUP]For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

[SUP]12 [/SUP]As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time. [SUP]13 [/SUP]“I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man,Coming with the clouds of heaven!



Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, [SUP]2 [/SUP]not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed,

and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels...

[SUP]14 [/SUP]Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle. [SUP]15 [/SUP]And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” [SUP]16 [/SUP]So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.

the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. [SUP]40 [/SUP]Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. [SUP]41 [/SUP]The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, [SUP]42 [/SUP]and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. [SUP]43 [/SUP]Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

“At that time Michael shall stand up,
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]The sun and moon will grow dark,
And the stars will diminish their brightness.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]The Lord also will roar from Zion,
And utter His voice from Jerusalem;
The heavens and earth will shake;
But the Lord will be a shelter for His people,


[SUP]3 [/SUP]Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.


Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You


And the Lord, whom you seek,
Will suddenly come to His temple,
Even the Messenger of the covenant,
In whom you delight.
Behold, He is coming,”
Says the Lord of hosts. [SUP]2 [/SUP]“But who can endure the day of His coming?
And who can stand when He appears?
For He is like a refiner’s fire
And like launderers’ soap.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]He will sit as a refiner and a purifier of silver


Do you need more????

Bravo! You proved what we agree on. Jesus returns AFTER THE GT. We ALL know that.

I need proof of a postrib RAPTURE. As in saints rising up from the earth while alive postrib.

You showed me zero

 

[VCO]

You didn't look here.

Appearing in the Air to Call out HIS BRIDE and Coming back to Earth to reign for a Thousand Years from throne of DAVID, are two different things.

Therein, lies the CONFUSION of post-tribbers.

The Bridegroom of 2000 years ago, was not allowed to set FOOT in the old dwelling place of the BRIDE, even when he came to get her; until AFTER THE WEDDING that took place in HIS FATHER's HOUSE.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Bravo! You proved what we agree on. Jesus returns AFTER THE GT.

You're just being picky, antichrist already got you catatonic with strong delusions. Return in the air, return to the Mount of Olives, it's all the same. Any fool can see that. Just look at the second coming as the meeting in the air of the Mount of Olives. The only way you can know if you've been raptured is if it smells like olives. Ask Olive Oyl, Popeye!

 

[popeye]

Appearing and Coming back to Earth to reign for a Thousand Years from throne of DAVID, are two different things.

Therein, lies the CONFUSION of post-tribbers.

They commit to "only one coming". From this standpoint they proceed to warp all verses into what they made up in their minds. That is what we are seeing.
Remedy; Comit to truth,not a position,pull it from the word,and let the word speak and correct.
I invite them to make me postrib. Show me the doctrine in wholesome truth.
It does not TRUTHFULLY exist.They have ,sadly ,failed.

 

[VCO]

plainword

"satan" on the hand of an individual.......IS WORSHIP.

I still thing it will be an implanted RFID microchip, replacing all credit cards and money, that will be controlled by the Antichrist.

 

[popeye]

You're just being picky, antichrist already got you catatonic with strong delusions. Return in the air, return to the Mount of Olives, it's all the same. Any fool can see that. Just look at the second coming as the meeting in the air of the Mount of Olives. The only way you can know if you've been raptured is if it smells like olives. Ask Olive Oyl, Popeye!

I think you are subconciencely associating Olive with popeye.

 

[JesusIsAll]

I think you are subconciencely associating Olive with popeye.

You saying Popeye doesn't know the real skinny? Though it's true. Some of these threads can only conjure visions of cartoons.

 

[popeye]

I still thing it will be an implanted RFID microchip, replacing all credit cards and money, that will be controlled by the Antichrist.

Probably.
You gotta rember the AC will be the ultimate narcisssist,which might NECESSITATE him making them display his image or seal in a tatoo while the chip is inserted underneath it.

The word says "grevious sores appear around the "Mark" area"

 

[popeye]

You saying Popeye doesn't know the real skinny? Though it's true. Some of these threads can only conjure visions of cartoons.

popeye is big dummy.
.......but can read

 

[JesusIsAll]

popeye is big dummy.
.......but can read

Don't knock it. That's Mensa material around here.

 

[Reborn]

Don't knock it. That's Mensa material around here.

So sad.......another one.

 

[VCO]

They commit to "only one coming". From this standpoint they proceed to warp all verses into what they made up in their minds. That is what we are seeing.
Remedy; Comit to truth,not a position,pull it from the word,and let the word speak and correct.
I invite them to make me postrib. Show me the doctrine in wholesome truth.
It does not TRUTHFULLY exist.They have ,sadly ,failed.

I have explained numerous, that it isn't a Second Coming until He has once again physically set foot on the Earth. All you guys are trying to do is put JESUS under house arrest in His Father's House.

You want PROOF that an Appearing does NOT COUNT as a SECOND COMING? You got it Toyota:

Acts 26:11-18 (ESV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And I punished them often in all the synagogues and tried to make them blaspheme, and in raging fury against them I persecuted them even to foreign cities.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] “In this connection I journeyed to Damascus with the authority and commission of the chief priests.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] At midday, O king, I saw on the way a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, that shone around me and those who journeyed with me.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And when we had all fallen to the ground, I heard a voice saying to me in the Hebrew language, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.’
[SUP]15 [/SUP] And I said, ‘Who are you, Lord?’ And the Lord said, ‘I am Jesus whom you are persecuting.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But rise and stand upon your feet, for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to appoint you as a servant and witness to the things in which you have seen me and to those in which I will appear to you,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] delivering you from your people and from the Gentiles—to whom I am sending you
[SUP]18 [/SUP] to open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

Acts 9:13-17 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] “Lord,” Ananias answered, “I have heard from many people about this man, how much harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And he has authority here from the chief priests to arrest all who call on Your name.”
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But the Lord said to him, “Go! For this man is My chosen instrument to take My name to Gentiles, kings, and the Israelites.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] I will show him how much he must suffer for My name!”
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So Ananias left and entered the house. Then he placed his hands on him and said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road you were traveling, has sent me so that you can regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.”

 

[VCO]

Probably.
You gotta rember the AC will be the ultimate narcisssist,which might NECESSITATE him making them display his image or seal in a tatoo while the chip is inserted underneath it.

The word says "grevious sores appear around the "Mark" area"

This was an add that the company that makes the RFID microchips for humans was running a couple years ago. THEY REALLY WANT TO EVENTUALLY REPLACE ALL CREDIT CARDS AND MONEY, WITH AN RFID MICROCHIP, THAT IS CONNECTED TO A SINGLE SUPER COMPUTER.

[video]https://youtu.be/eob532iEpqk[/video]

 

[VCO]

The "shortening of the days" has everything to do with the end of it - and nothing to do with the length of it... It is what happens at the end of it that causes it to have to be shortened.

( And, we are not to the end of it, yet... )



This happened in 70 A.D. ( The Christians fled to safety. The non-believing Jews did not. )

Gary, you are wrong about your 70 A.D. THEORY. The Hour of Trial will come upon the WHOLE WORLD; while 70 A.D. only happened to those in Jerusalem:


Revelation 3:10 (NIV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth.

Matthew 24:21-22 (HCSB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For at that time there will be great tribulation, the kind that hasn’t taken place from the beginning of the world until now and never will again! ☜
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Unless those days were limited, no one would survive. But those days will be limited because of the elect.


Absolute proof that it WAS NOT 70 A.D. is the fact that Adolf Hitler murdered six million Jews. AND if you read the rest of the prophecies, about the GREAT TRIBULATION, you will find out that two thirds of the world's population will die. So it will be WAY WORSE THAN WWII.

Revelation 6:9-11 (NKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?"
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

Revelation 7:13-15 (NKJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?"
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them.

YES, 70 A.D. was A tribulation, and there have been many tribulations; but NOTHING will compare to Massive Genocide that WILL HAPPEN WORLDWIDE IN THE GREAT TRIBULATION.

 

[GaryA]

Gary, you are wrong about your 70 A.D. THEORY. The Hour of Trial will come upon the WHOLE WORLD; while 70 A.D. only happened to those in Jerusalem:


Revelation 3:10 (NIV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth.

Matthew 24:21-22 (HCSB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For at that time there will be great tribulation, the kind that hasn’t taken place from the beginning of the world until now and never will again! ☜
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Unless those days were limited, no one would survive. But those days will be limited because of the elect.


Absolute proof that it WAS NOT 70 A.D. is the fact that Adolf Hitler murdered six million Jews. AND if you read the rest of the prophecies, about the GREAT TRIBULATION, you will find out that two thirds of the world's population will die. So it will be WAY WORSE THAN WWII.

Revelation 6:9-11 (NKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?"
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

Revelation 7:13-15 (NKJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?"
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them.

YES, 70 A.D. was A tribulation, and there have been many tribulations; but NOTHING will compare to Massive Genocide that WILL HAPPEN WORLDWIDE IN THE GREAT TRIBULATION.

I agree. ( Not with the first sentence, however. )

I never said that 70 A.D. was the "Hour of Trial" -- that is yet future -- at the END of the Great Tribulation.

What I have said:

~ 70 A.D. marks the beginning of the Great Tribulation.

~ We are still in it.

~ The end of it is in the future.

~ The worst of it is yet to come.

 

[GaryA]

Show me the Chapter and Verse on that one. YOU, all by yourself, have put JESUS on HOUSE ARREST in Heaven, and YOU are forbidding HIM to travel anywhere outside of Heaven; just so you can protect your anti-Pretrib THEORY.

It is NOT a Second Coming to Earth until HIS feet touch the ground:

Zechariah 14:4 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem on the east. The Mount of Olives will be split in half from east to west, forming a huge valley, so that half the mountain will move to the north and half to the south.

THEN AND ONLY THEN IS IT THE SECOND COMING TO EARTH.

There will only be one Second Coming. There will not be a Third Coming. The 'rapture' and His feet touching the ground will both occur at / during the Second Coming.

 

[GaryA]

Yes, they arrive spiritually under the Altar throughout the Seven Years, instantly as they are beheaded. The Fact that the ELDERS are already there, indicates the Church and OT Saints have already arrived. The Tribulation Saints receive their resurrected glorified bodies, immediately after HIS RETURN to Earth, While we Receive them at the Calling Out of the Bride seven years earlier. All three groups are part of the Wedding of the Lamb.

Who then are the Tribulation Saints? Most likely a LOT OF JEWISH CONVERTS, and some of the Fence Setters who had delayed making a decision to RECEIVE Jesus Christ as LORD, meaning MASTER, one day too long. They certainly will all be beheaded when they refuse to take the mark of allegiance to the Antichrist.

You have the Bride married before all who are supposed to be a part of her are in "glorified-body" form. This completely "runs against" Biblical truth.

[ Presently, at this time -- ] I believe that the souls "under the alter" are those from the past ( the Dark Ages ) and the ones they are "waiting for" are from the future ( Revelation 20:4 martyrs ) -- all are 'Tribulation' martyrs.

 

[GaryA]

Uh,all I need is us in heaven during the gt.
I have demonstrrated this HANDS DOWN. You have no case.
Your doctrine prohibits us from heaven. (Uturn you guys invented ...remember?)

( only in your own mind )

"Believe what you will..."

( You will understand soon enough... )

 

[GaryA]

If pretribs are weak wimpy basket cases emotionally driven and on the verge of denouncng Christ at the appearing of AC,and postribs portray themselves as these powerhouses of stamina and faith,ready to take on the AC,then how do they figure to "endure to the end",rolleyes,when he kills every saint refusing the mark?

The phrase "endure to the end" - as you are making reference to here - means "holding fast to the Faith until death" - not "still being alive at the end"...