When Does A Christian Become Immortality/Born Again?

Cameron143 · Nov 16, 2023

Verse 37 conveniently comes before verse 38. They heard...faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God...were pricked in their hearts...circumcision of the heart...what shall we do?...their wills were affected...All this is the work of God internally to affect salvation. The mind, heart, and will of these individuals were changed. They had been born from above. So the natural outward response to this inward experience would be to repent and be baptized.

Karlon · Nov 16, 2023

someone can definitely be saved before baptism. in fact, i never heard of an event where someone was baptized first, then saved.. Romans 10;9,13 & John 3:5. imagine someone who is invalid, & accepts Jesus Christ as savior. that person is now saved. death may occur BEFORE baptism but you are still saved.

Jimbone · Nov 16, 2023

Walter said:

Being born again is the ACT of God granting you repentance, opening your eyes to how futile and small "our way" is in truth. Opening our eyes to exactly how "great" we really are and us turning from that to Him. When this takes place, the price we owe for our sin is applied to the cross, and Jesus righteousness is applied to us. Because of this, our dead spirit that we've NEVER had because we were born with dead spirits due to original sin, is resurrected, we are spiritually resurrected and reconciled to His Spirit as we were originally created to be. This event forever changes us and rewrites our hearts. Many here sell a false view on this and say that after this we "MUST" obey or lose salvation.
This is where the major difference between a false works based gospel and the truth is, when this happens we now desire to obey in a way we were incapable of before KNOWING the truth and being reborn in POWER, and now you will obey. This is why we can claim no credit nor boast, and He gets all glory as He should. The difference between "must" and "will" cannot be overstated. It's the difference between the TRUTH and a false gospel.
This is what being born again is, being spiritually resurrected and reconciled to His Holy Spirit as free gift that you CAN'T earn, nor can it be snatched away as these confused teachers preach here. Hope that helps.

DJT_47 · Nov 16, 2023

Cameron143 said:

Having a change of heart doesn't save, it's a step, step 2 towards salvation subsequent to belief. After having a change of mind and heart you must be further obedient which requires baptism for the forgiveness of your sins. Sins are NOT forgiven by belief and/or having a change of mind a d heart. The Jews were told what they needed to do and why as well as the benefits to be garnered.
1. Forgiveness of sins
2. Receive the gift of the Holy Ghost
3. Be added to the church by the Lord

Cameron143 · Nov 16, 2023

DJT_47 said:

John 15:3 says we are clean by the word. In John 3:3 we are born again by water and the Spirit. Water here is a symbol for the gospel. There is no faith without the word. There is no salvation without the Spirit. But the cleansing inwardly isn't done by water, but by the word.
The reason I spent so much time explaining verse 37 is so you would see that salvation is the work of God.
If you read Isaiah, chapter 53 deals with the accomplishment of salvation. Chapter 54 deals with the benefits of salvation. Chapter 55 is a call to receive salvation. And chapter 56 teaches how we should live having received salvation. Thus, after a sermon is given like the one by Peter, there should always be a call given to the listeners. Where God has been active though the Spirit and the word, those individuals will respond. Where no such activity takes place, those individuals will not respond. Three thousand heard the sermon and responded. How many others heard who did not?
I understand what you believe and why. But the response to the work of God never produces salvation; it merely testifies to it.

JBTN · Nov 16, 2023

DJT_47 said:

“Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5‬:‭1‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/1jn.5.1.ESV

Gideon300 · Nov 16, 2023

Wansvic said:

The word warns about following manmade traditions. because they have the ability to make God's word of none effect. (Matt. 15:6) In other words they steer people away from God and His lifegiving message. The "sinner's prayer" is not in the bible it is a manmade tradition.

Paul stated having the Holy Spirit is essential to be accepted of God. (Rom. 8:9) Believing does not automatically bring about that reality. We know this from Paul's question recorded in Acts 19, "Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed?" The question shatters the illusion that belief alone provides for the indwelling of the Holy Ghost/Spirit. Further, the question indicates Paul was going to assist the group in receiving the Holy Ghost if they hadn't already had the experience. Please read the entire account in Acts 19:1-6 it provides the answer to how a person becomes born again via water and Spirit. Note: The detailed account mirrors the instructions given by Peter over 25 years earlier when the NT church was birthed.

Peter provided instructions when asked "What must we do?" by those on the Day of Pentecost. It is noted in the last verse when the group was considered born again Christians:

"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, (THEY BELIEVED) and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? (WHAT ELSE IS NECESSARY)

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." (Acts 2:36-41)

DJT_47 said:

You preach the false doctrine of baptisimal regeneration. It's been debunked many times by many theologians. I can no longer be bothered arguing about it. I've never yet changed the mind of those who believe it. It's like dealing with the FE people, a waste of time.

Magenta · Nov 16, 2023

Ephesians 4:5-6

DJT_47 · Nov 17, 2023

Cameron143 said:

I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say, but the bottom line is salvation doesn't occur until you've done all that's required of you, physically as well whether it serves a symbolic nature or not. The gospel is simple. It was simple in biblical times and should be as simple, it mankind makes it difficult and esoteric because of their preconceived notions instead of simply following what the words say. It requires belief and faith, confession of your belief in Christ as dud the Ethiopian eunuch, repentance as tge Jews were told to do on the day of Pentecost, and immersion in water, baptism into Christ, for the remission of sins. That's the simplicity of it. That's what was done in biblical times. That's what the scriptures say. You can believe whatever you like, but the above is what is absolutely required for salvation. Goodbye

Cameron143 · Nov 17, 2023

DJT_47 said:

I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say, but the bottom line is salvation doesn't occur until you've done all that's required of you, physically as well whether it serves a symbolic nature or not. The gospel is simple. It was simple in biblical times and should be as simple, it mankind makes it difficult and esoteric because of their preconceived notions instead of simply following what the words say. It requires belief and faith, confession of your belief in Christ as dud the Ethiopian eunuch, repentance as tge Jews were told to do on the day of Pentecost, and immersion in water, baptism into Christ, for the remission of sins. That's the simplicity of it. That's what was done in biblical times. That's what the scriptures say. You can believe whatever you like, but the above is what is absolutely required for salvation. Goodbye

Just a thought...what are you really trusting in: Jesus or a prescribed set of actions?

Wansvic · Nov 17, 2023

Cameron143 said:

Note it was AFTER the group believed in Jesus that they were told to repent and be baptized. This alone proves the group was not yet saved in verse 37. As you will recall Jesus said those who do not repent will perish. (Luke 13:3) Verse 41 reveals when the group actually repented. Upon belief and obedience to Peter's message their choice to turn to God changed their lives forever; they were born again:

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, WHAT SHALL WE DO?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers." (Acts 2:37-42)

Cameron143 · Nov 17, 2023

Wansvic said:

Note it was AFTER the group believed in Jesus that they were told to repent and be baptized. This alone proves the group was not yet saved in verse 37. As you will recall Jesus said those who do not repent will perish. (Luke 13:3) Verse 41 reveals when the group actually repented. Upon belief and obedience to Peter's message their choice to turn to God changed their lives forever; they were born again:

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, WHAT SHALL WE DO?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers." (Acts 2:37-42)

Everything after verse 37 was the result of what happened in verse 37. God used the word and the Spirit to give hearing and circumcise their hearts. Having become partakers of the divine nature, they respond.
If it is true that none seek after God in their natural estate...Romans 3, then they must have been changed to desire after Him.

Wansvic · Nov 17, 2023

Gideon300 said:

As the shared scriptures reveal submitting to water baptism in the name of Jesus is for remission of sin. It is an essential PART of the NT rebirth as witnessed in accounts relevant to all groups of people. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-6, 22:16)

Keep in mind that many professed theologians say many things that go directly against the word. To trust in "theologians" or the actual word of God is a choice all must make.

Jesus said, My sheep hear my voice and another they will not follow. Distinguishing between Jesus' voice and others requires spending time in the word. Scripture and His indwelling presence is where the voice of Jesus can be "heard."

"...be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: for he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. " (James 1:22-25)

Wansvic · Nov 17, 2023

Cameron143 said:

Peter tells the group to save themselves and as scripture reveals those who believed him were baptized. The implication is not all obeyed Peter's instruction:

"And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." (Acts 2:41)

Cameron143 · Nov 17, 2023

Wansvic said:

So...people save themselves. So Ephesians 2:8 should say...by ourselves we save ourselves through baptism and repentance?

turbosixx · Nov 17, 2023

Walter said:

This is my understanding.
Jesus is talking to a Jew. They believe their physical birth into the Jewish nation will save them. Jesus is telling Nic that that birth will not save him and he needs to be born again. He tells him what that birth looks like. Keep in mind this is looking forward to the establishment of the church.
5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

We see exactly that on Pentecost. Water and Spirit.
Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

DJT_47 · Nov 17, 2023

Cameron143 said:

The word of God which is and should be our only guide. Trusting in Jesus is following and trusting in what he said to do. The below scripture in Jesus own words are pretty clear.

Mark 16:15-16

15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Belief + baptism = salvation

Cameron143 · Nov 17, 2023

DJT_47 said:

The word of God which is and should be our only guide. Trusting in Jesus is following and trusting in what he said to do. The below scripture in Jesus own words are pretty clear.

Mark 16:15-16

15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Belief + baptism = salvation

You realize that is the classic faith plus works paradigm?

DJT_47 · Nov 17, 2023

Cameron143 said:

What I realize is that it's the word of God spoken of by Christ himself and must be obeyed. Disobey if you like at your own peril.

Cameron143 · Nov 17, 2023

DJT_47 said:

Does disobedience negate salvation?

When Does A Christian Become Immortality/Born Again?

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