When do people truly repent of their sins, before or after truly believing in Jesus?

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bluto

Senior Member
#21
Aug 4, 2016
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#21
Intersection said:
The one thief on the cross repented after believing in Jesus. This thief on the cross didn't repent right away because he was not yet a believer.
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Ok, let's do this by the numbers. First, were only dealing with the thief who said he deserved his punishment. Forget the other thief. He was the one who "mocked" Jesus while the first thief rebuked him. Now, let's go to Acts 2:37-38 and at vs37 the crowed out to Peter and the other Apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?"

Vs38, "And Peter said to them, "REPENT" and let each one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ; for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." What's the very first word Peter said to them? "REPENT." that is, to change their minds and fundamental attitudes by accepting the change required. This would produce a renewing of their minds as well as a change in attitude toward sin and self.

The repentant ones could show that change of mind and heart by being baptized in the name of Jesus. Peter is "NOT" teaching that water baptism saves you. The thief was not water baptized but he did repent and that's why Jesus said, "you shall be with Me in Paradise this day." Btw, water baptism does not save you as some churches teach.

IN GOD THE SON,
james
 
I

Intersection

Member
#22
Dec 12, 2024
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#22
bluto said:
Ok, let's do this by the numbers. First, were only dealing with the thief who said he deserved his punishment. Forget the other thief. He was the one who "mocked" Jesus while the first thief rebuked him. Now, let's go to Acts 2:37-38 and at vs37 the crowed out to Peter and the other Apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?"

Vs38, "And Peter said to them, "REPENT" and let each one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ; for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." What's the very first word Peter said to them? "REPENT." that is, to change their minds and fundamental attitudes by accepting the change required. This would produce a renewing of their minds as well as a change in attitude toward sin and self.

The repentant ones could show that change of mind and heart by being baptized in the name of Jesus. Peter is "NOT" teaching that water baptism saves you. The thief was not water baptized but he did repent and that's why Jesus said, "you shall be with Me in Paradise this day." Btw, water baptism does not save you as some churches teach.

IN GOD THE SON,
james
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I'll let you die in your test without water baptism. :D
 
B

bluto

Senior Member
#23
Aug 4, 2016
2,118
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#23
Intersection said:
I'll let you die in your test without water baptism. :D
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You know, I don't know how old you are but what I do know is that your "Biblically" ignorant and I can prove it. Go to Acts 10:44-48. Vs44, "While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. vs45, "And all the circumcised believers who had come with Peter were amazed, because (or why?) the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out upon the Gentiles also. Vs46, "For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and exalting God. The Peter answered, vs47, "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?" Vs48, "And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ."

Now, here's the question for you? Did the Gentiles in this situation receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, "BEFORE" or after they were water baptized? I also take note of your statement to me here: "I'll let you die in your test without water baptism." Have you ever presented Jesus Christ to someone who on their death bed? I have twice in my 63 years of being a Christian. Do you really think that in this position that water baptism is an issue? None of this is a laughing matter and should be taken seriously.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
I

Intersection

Member
#24
Dec 12, 2024
46
15
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#24
bluto said:
You know, I don't know how old you are but what I do know is that your "Biblically" ignorant and I can prove it. Go to Acts 10:44-48. Vs44, "While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. vs45, "And all the circumcised believers who had come with Peter were amazed, because (or why?) the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out upon the Gentiles also. Vs46, "For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and exalting God. The Peter answered, vs47, "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?" Vs48, "And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ."

Now, here's the question for you? Did the Gentiles in this situation receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, "BEFORE" or after they were water baptized? I also take note of your statement to me here: "I'll let you die in your test without water baptism." Have you ever presented Jesus Christ to someone who on their death bed? I have twice in my 63 years of being a Christian. Do you really think that in this position that water baptism is an issue? None of this is a laughing matter and should be taken seriously.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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Jesus gave you water, but you refused. :ROFL:
 
Michael4321

Michael4321

New member
#25
Dec 16, 2024
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#25
I am a minister. And ive visited people who are ready to die. Terminal cancer and whatnot. My opinons are mixed. BUT at the end they wish to confess their sins, and wish for me to pray with them, To save them, and give them eternal life in gods kingsdom. I guide them, But it is not within my power to glorify or sanctify them.
 
B

bluto

Senior Member
#26
Aug 4, 2016
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#26
Michael4321 said:
I am a minister. And ive visited people who are ready to die. Terminal cancer and whatnot. My opinons are mixed. BUT at the end they wish to confess their sins, and wish for me to pray with them, To save them, and give them eternal life in gods kingsdom. I guide them, But it is not within my power to glorify or sanctify them.
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For the most part I agree with you. That is praying with them and tell them to confess there sins and call upon the Lord Jesus Christ. I don't understand what you mean about these words of yours. "But, it is not within my power to glorify or sanctify them." Btw, I am not minister, just a layman reaching out to people no matter what condition they may be in. I open my mouth and it God who does the saving.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
Michael4321

Michael4321

New member
#27
Dec 16, 2024
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9
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#27
bluto said:
For the most part I agree with you. That is praying with them and tell them to confess there sins and call upon the Lord Jesus Christ. I don't understand what you mean about these words of yours. "But, it is not within my power to glorify or sanctify them." Btw, I am not minister, just a layman reaching out to people no matter what condition they may be in. I open my mouth and it God who does the saving.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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Sanctification is to be set apart, It means to be seperated from the World unto God. When you are born again, God seperates you from the world, He calls you to himself, and justifies you, that is to declare you righteous by faith. Haven been justified, you need the word of God and prayers to continue to cleanse your mind and your thoughts. Romans 12:1-2 tells us that we need to continually renew our mind with the word of God in order not to conform to this world and also to be transformed by God. This powerful prayer points on sanctification and the cleansing of the Holy Spirit, will empower us to serve God effectively, as we engage this prayers the grace to live like Christ will be lavished on us in Jesus name.
 
B

bluto

Senior Member
#28
Aug 4, 2016
2,118
538
113
#28
Michael4321 said:
Sanctification is to be set apart, It means to be seperated from the World unto God. When you are born again, God seperates you from the world, He calls you to himself, and justifies you, that is to declare you righteous by faith. Haven been justified, you need the word of God and prayers to continue to cleanse your mind and your thoughts. Romans 12:1-2 tells us that we need to continually renew our mind with the word of God in order not to conform to this world and also to be transformed by God. This powerful prayer points on sanctification and the cleansing of the Holy Spirit, will empower us to serve God effectively, as we engage this prayers the grace to live like Christ will be lavished on us in Jesus name.
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I know all about sanctification etc. When you said, "But, it is not within my power to glorify or sanctify them." Your saying you do not have the "POWER" to glorify or sanctify them. In other words, that's not your job and I agree with you.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
wattie

wattie

Senior Member
#29
Feb 24, 2009
3,258
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New Zealand
#29
Intersection said:
Hebrews 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
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Hebrews 10 context is talking about animal sacrifice.

For the Hebrew believer, they were going back to Old Testament practices of sacrificing lambs, bulls and goats 🐐

If they sinned, those kind of sacrifices were no longer required, with Jesus as the ultimate lamb. The new covenant meant not doing those sacrifices, which were figures and types of Jesus.

So it isn't saying..there is no longer salvation for the believer, but for the Hebrew believers to go on to maturity in their faith by focusing on Jesus as the ultimate lamb.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#30
Jun 30, 2015
25,597
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#30
bluto said:
Now your getting into the area of knowing the operation of one's mind, you don't know it. The thief was convinced that what he did was wrong and he deserved the punishment he was given.

I doubt very much he had some sort of benefit in mind. I base that assumption on the fact that Jesus knew all men and Jesus was convinced the thief repented in his heart.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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I am certain that Jesus could have known the man's heart, but I also believe that Jesus accepted the mustard-seed of faith the man offered. He believed that Jesus was righteous and actually had a kingdom awaiting His arrival. If we consider the simple definition of "repent" then the man did; he had a change of mind.
 
timemeddler

timemeddler

Active member
#31
Jul 13, 2023
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#31
Dino246 said:
I am certain that Jesus could have known the man's heart, but I also believe that Jesus accepted the mustard-seed of faith the man offered. He believed that Jesus was righteous and actually had a kingdom awaiting His arrival. If we consider the simple definition of "repent" then the man did; he had a change of mind.
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we kind of have to assume that when the bible says to repent, it means within your ability to do so.
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#32
Aug 28, 2012
19,502
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#32
Repentance has to come before we are saved but there is also true surrender which has many levels to it.

True surrender is a spiritual experience and is like repentance but on a deeper level of devotion to him a true heartfelt surrender changes you and you live differently by instinct.
 
HealthAndHappiness

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
#33
Jul 7, 2022
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Almost Heaven West Virginia
#33
Intersection said:
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
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Does it continue with the phrase "of your sins to be saved?"
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#34
May 21, 2022
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#34
Blain said:
Repentance has to come before we are saved but there is also true surrender which has many levels to it.

True surrender is a spiritual experience and is like repentance but on a deeper level of devotion to him a true heartfelt surrender changes you and you live differently by instinct.
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I do think repentance is first, it only makes sense one has to turn away form dead works which cannot save to Christ Jesus and His Work on our behalf!
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#36
May 21, 2022
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#36
wattie said:
Hebrews 10 context is talking about animal sacrifice.

For the Hebrew believer, they were going back to Old Testament practices of sacrificing lambs, bulls and goats 🐐

If they sinned, those kind of sacrifices were no longer required, with Jesus as the ultimate lamb. The new covenant meant not doing those sacrifices, which were figures and types of Jesus.

So it isn't saying..there is no longer salvation for the believer, but for the Hebrew believers to go on to maturity in their faith by focusing on Jesus as the ultimate lamb.
Click to expand...
Agree Wattie, there was no sacrifice for willful sin under the old system.
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#37
Aug 28, 2012
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#37
HeIsHere said:
I do think repentance is first, it only makes sense one has to turn away form dead works which cannot save to Christ Jesus and His Work on our behalf!
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I don't see how anyone can think otherwise I mean without repentance you won't die to your old self you will continue to love your sinful ways and one simply cannot be saved from sin if they don't want to be
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#38
May 21, 2022
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#38
Blain said:
I don't see how anyone can think otherwise I mean without repentance you won't die to your old self you will continue to love your sinful ways and one simply cannot be saved from sin if they don't want to be
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Yes if one thinks of it as a change of mind "away from something towards something new" it means a person wants the new, to be saved from sin.
 
HealthAndHappiness

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
#39
Jul 7, 2022
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Almost Heaven West Virginia
#39
Intersection said:
The one thief on the cross repented after believing in Jesus. This thief on the cross didn't repent right away because he was not yet a believer.
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This is an important issue, so please read the King James Bible from cover to cover and underline the phrase "repent of your sins" to the unbeliever to be saved from hell.

Repenting of sins is hard work.
Repenting of all of your sins is obedience to the laws.
Have you repented of all of your sins?
I haven't. I still sin.
Maybe someone can tell me the secret of obeying all of the laws.
Can someone tell me what I must do to be saved, to keep all of the laws, to repent of all those violations of God's laws?
I want to be saved.
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#40
Aug 28, 2012
19,502
2,707
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#40
HealthAndHappiness said:
This is an important issue, so please read the King James Bible from cover to cover and underline the phrase "repent of your sins" to the unbeliever to be saved from hell.

Repenting of sins is hard work.
Repenting of all of your sins is obedience to the laws.
Have you repented of all of your sins?
I haven't. I still sin.
Maybe someone can tell me the secret of obeying all of the laws.
Can someone tell me what I must do to be saved, to keep all of the laws, to repent of all those violations of God's laws?
I want to be saved.
Click to expand...
repenting of sins and not sinning are not the same a repentant heart may still sin as we are still subject to human nature but to obey the law is boiled down to one thing love.
A loving heart obeys the law simply by having love in their heart and you have to take his grace into account as well we fall short everyday not one person can say they are without sin but his love and grace for us covers our failings
 
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