"What Will Hell...
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He said that the story isn't literal. My question to him is 'what's the point - if the story isn't literal'.
Our universe is made up at the subatomic level with clusters of like charged particles, which science tells us should naturally repel each other. They call the unknown factor that keeps it all from exploding "the strong force". There are several theories as to the source of this ‘strong force’, including God’s claim that He holds it all together (Col 1:17). God also claims He spoke it all into being out of nothingness - while science says out of nothingness, kaboom there it is.
Then there’s dark matter/energy. Scientific estimates vary, but they hover around the theory that 90% of what makes up the universe, we can’t see, except for how it affects the things we can see. God says there is another realm that we can’t see, other than how it affects what we can see. And He wants His 10% back.
God further says that someday He will speak this universe out of existence. Paul describes that moment, saying the elements will melt with fervent heat (2 Peter 3:7, 10, 12). Think of what results when the atom is split – intense heat and fire. Think of what results when the Strong Force releases it’s hold, and a universe of atoms suddenly comes apart. The interesting thing is, even tho it’s talked about often in the Bible, we don’t actually see the lake of fire appear until this present earth and heavens are de-created.
Could it be the de-creation of our universe that creates the lake of fire?
Could it be, for those who loved this world more than Him, God lets them have it in its natural state apart from Him?
I don’t think God ‘sends’ anyone to 'hell' or eternal damnation. Look at it this way. Suppose I built a resort for the homeless, and all I asked was that on their way in they acknowledge and thank me for doing so. “Hey man, I really appreciate you doing this” and you’re in the door. Tell me to kiss off, and you can sit outside on the curb. Am I really responsible for those who choose to sit on the curb?
You can choose God or you can choose the world. Choose the world and you will have it.
Infinity divided by a large number = infinity divided by a small number. They're the same, equal - fair. They both equal infinity.
Eternity is an infinite amount of time, so eternal torment lasts the same (fair) amount of time in both cases.
All it takes is one moment in hell to realize there's no hope of ever getting out. That's the same (equal) realization a person has who's been there a trillion trillion years.
.
• Ps 115:17-18 . .The dead do not praise The Lord, nor do any who go
down into silence. But as for us, we will bless The Lord from this time forth
and forever.
The "dead" in that verse are different than a corpse. It pertains to folks who
prefer self-importance over the importance of a supreme being. (cf. Ps 2:1-3)
"any who go down into silence" tells us that they might just as well be mute
in the afterlife because The Lord no longer lends them His ear; they're
permanently cut off from His benevolence, viz: God has no interest
whatsoever in either their worship or their prayers, i.e. they are dead to
Him; and as far as He's concerned they're like old documents disposed in the
shredder because they no longer matter.
"But as for us" pertains to folks whose association with their maker is permanent;
for example:
• Gen 28:15 . . Remember, I am with you: I will protect you wherever you
go and will bring you back to this land. I will not leave you until I have done
what I have promised you.
• John 14:16-18 . . And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another
counselor to be with you forever-- the Spirit of truth. The world cannot
accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him,
for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will
come to you.
* It's conceivable that the outer darkness spoken of in the 8th and 22nd
chapters of Matthew is a sort of reiteration of Ps 115:17. In other words;
although folks alienated from God are in a darkness of sorts already; He hasn't
totally abandoned them yet.
• Matt 5:44-45 . . I say, love your enemies. Pray for those who persecute
you. In that way, you will be acting as true children of your Father in
heaven. For He gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and He
sends rain on the just and on the unjust, too.
Illustrations for Dante's Inferno by the artist Gustave Doré may not be
entirely true, but they sure do a good job of impressing the total and
complete absence of God's benevolence in the netherworld.
_
• Ps 115:17-18 . .The dead do not praise The Lord, nor do any who go
down into silence. But as for us, we will bless The Lord from this time forth
and forever.
The "dead" in that verse are different than a corpse. It pertains to folks who
prefer self-importance over the importance of a supreme being. (cf. Ps 2:1-3)
"any who go down into silence" tells us that they might just as well be mute
in the afterlife because The Lord no longer lends them His ear; they're
permanently cut off from His benevolence, viz: God has no interest
whatsoever in either their worship or their prayers, i.e. they are dead to
Him; and as far as He's concerned they're like old documents disposed in the
shredder because they no longer matter.
"But as for us" pertains to folks whose association with their maker is permanent;
for example:
• Gen 28:15 . . Remember, I am with you: I will protect you wherever you
go and will bring you back to this land. I will not leave you until I have done
what I have promised you.
• John 14:16-18 . . And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another
counselor to be with you forever-- the Spirit of truth. The world cannot
accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him,
for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will
come to you.
* It's conceivable that the outer darkness spoken of in the 8th and 22nd
chapters of Matthew is a sort of reiteration of Ps 115:17. In other words;
although folks alienated from God are in a darkness of sorts already; He hasn't
totally abandoned them yet.
• Matt 5:44-45 . . I say, love your enemies. Pray for those who persecute
you. In that way, you will be acting as true children of your Father in
heaven. For He gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and He
sends rain on the just and on the unjust, too.
Illustrations for Dante's Inferno by the artist Gustave Doré may not be
entirely true, but they sure do a good job of impressing the total and
complete absence of God's benevolence in the netherworld.
_
Speaks of the body, not the soul. The soul is everlasting and is an integral part of all men. When a wicked man dies, his soul goes to Hades to await the final White Throne Judgment. It shall then undergo the Second Resurrection and be transferred to the Lake of Fire where the unredeemed shall be tormented forever.
Ecc 9:5 KJV For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
Psa 146:4 KJV His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
Job 7:9 As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more. 10 He shall return no more to his house, neither shall his place know him any more.
Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Eze 18:4 KJV Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Rev 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Gen 3:3-5
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Trust God and believe that the soul dies,
Or trust the devil and believe you shall not die....
That is a pagan teaching with no biblical support. The soul is not immortal. The immortal soul is a tradition from pagan teachings that goes right back to the first lie of Satan.
Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die.
The above post is a lie of Satan. Unfortunately, it is not the first and will not be the last.
This death = eternal torment in the Lake of Fire.
Revelation 20:
12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Matthew 25:
43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
.
• Ps 146:3-4 . . Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in
whom there is no help. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in
that very day his thoughts perish.
Some people honestly believe the passage above teaches that people cease
to exist when they pass away; but were their belief true, then Christ
would've ceased to exist when he passed away on the cross and in order to
restore the Lord's body to life, it would've been necessary to first create the
man himself back into existence. No; I'm pretty sure that Psalm says something
very different.
The Hebrew word translated "thoughts" can just as easily pertain to plans,
ideas, and schemes.
Consider all those people who perished in the World Trade Center, in the
Japan and Indonesia tsunamis, and the Haiti earthquake. None of them
woke that day planning on it being their last on earth. No, on the contrary;
they had people to see, places to go, and things to do: but before the day
ended; whatever was on their minds lost its importance-- their priorities
went right out the window and became no more significant than green
cheese on the moon.
All their plans, their dreams, their schedules, their appointments, their
schemes, their problems, their aspirations, and their loves went right down
the tubes as they were suddenly confronted with a whole new reality to cope
with.
While preparing for a new world tour, Michael Jackson died in his sleep. As a
result; his tour wrapped on the spot.
When my eldest nephew was paroled from prison; he quit drinking, and
began going to college with the goal towards becoming a counselor. For 2½
years all went well. His parole officer was happy, and my nephew was on
track and getting good grades. His future looked assured. And then on the
morning of Sept 25, 2015, he dropped dead to the floor of natural causes.
As a result; his college education, and his hope to become a counselor,
dropped dead to the floor right with him.
* Jackson was raised a Jehovah's Witness, but it's possible he may have
passed away believing in Kabbalah, or Islam, or New Age spirituality.
Apparently his religion at death is thus far a mystery.
Well, either way: if traditional Christianity is true and reliable, then Jackson
is likely in a place now for which he was utterly unprepared. And can you
imagine the suffocating stagnation endured by entertainers like him as they
languish day after day, year after year, in an environment where not one
single note of music is heard for singing and dancing?
_
• Ps 146:3-4 . . Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in
whom there is no help. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in
that very day his thoughts perish.
Some people honestly believe the passage above teaches that people cease
to exist when they pass away; but were their belief true, then Christ
would've ceased to exist when he passed away on the cross and in order to
restore the Lord's body to life, it would've been necessary to first create the
man himself back into existence. No; I'm pretty sure that Psalm says something
very different.
The Hebrew word translated "thoughts" can just as easily pertain to plans,
ideas, and schemes.
Consider all those people who perished in the World Trade Center, in the
Japan and Indonesia tsunamis, and the Haiti earthquake. None of them
woke that day planning on it being their last on earth. No, on the contrary;
they had people to see, places to go, and things to do: but before the day
ended; whatever was on their minds lost its importance-- their priorities
went right out the window and became no more significant than green
cheese on the moon.
All their plans, their dreams, their schedules, their appointments, their
schemes, their problems, their aspirations, and their loves went right down
the tubes as they were suddenly confronted with a whole new reality to cope
with.
While preparing for a new world tour, Michael Jackson died in his sleep. As a
result; his tour wrapped on the spot.
When my eldest nephew was paroled from prison; he quit drinking, and
began going to college with the goal towards becoming a counselor. For 2½
years all went well. His parole officer was happy, and my nephew was on
track and getting good grades. His future looked assured. And then on the
morning of Sept 25, 2015, he dropped dead to the floor of natural causes.
As a result; his college education, and his hope to become a counselor,
dropped dead to the floor right with him.
* Jackson was raised a Jehovah's Witness, but it's possible he may have
passed away believing in Kabbalah, or Islam, or New Age spirituality.
Apparently his religion at death is thus far a mystery.
Well, either way: if traditional Christianity is true and reliable, then Jackson
is likely in a place now for which he was utterly unprepared. And can you
imagine the suffocating stagnation endured by entertainers like him as they
languish day after day, year after year, in an environment where not one
single note of music is heard for singing and dancing?
_
Keep reading.. you quoted that there will be a judgement of the dead and those raised in the second resurrection will be thrown into the lake of fire.
The second death.
Rev 21 tells me sinful people are not burning eternally. The result is eternal and their death is eternal but they pass away.
Rev 21:1-4
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. .....
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Passed away.
Death and hell were cast into the fire. Rev 20:13-15
Judgement happens before the penalty.
It came from God
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life
; and man became a living soul.
Genesis 2:7 KJV
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 KJV
Our living spirit came from God it's why he's worked so hard to save mankind our spirits are from his spirit
It's like most of Jesus teachings it's conveying truth it's not a literal story he's remembering but more an educational storyThen it must be literal.
Then it must be literal.
All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.
Matthew 13:34-35 KJV
If you notice the afterlife really isn't a subject much in the ot he's revealing hidden things
There aren’t any verses about all souls being immortal. The soul is conditionally immortal based on God’s gift of eternal life. It follows that if all in Christ receive eternal life that the others plainly perish or are destroyed, i.e., death… not eternal life.
John 3:16
16For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Jesus’ parables were earthly stories containing elements that the listeners were already
familiar with; soil types, wheat, tares, coins, wasteful sons, good neighbors, lamp oil,
etc.
Here’s an earthly story:
There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared
sumptuously every day: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid
at his gate, full of sores, And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich
man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the
beggar died ...................................: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Jesus' listeners were already familiar with these elements (as are we) - it's just plain ol' life on planet earth.
But here’s an UNearthly story:
..........and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom .................
And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and
Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and
send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am
tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime
receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted,
and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf
fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to
us, that would come from thence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou
wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify
unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They
have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham:
but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they
hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from
the dead.
Who was already familiar with these elements? No one. No living person has experienced this. It makes no attempt to
interpret the earthly part of the story; but rather it’s a continuation of the same story.
I have to conclude that this is not a parable; but rather, revelation.
familiar with; soil types, wheat, tares, coins, wasteful sons, good neighbors, lamp oil,
etc.
Here’s an earthly story:
There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared
sumptuously every day: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid
at his gate, full of sores, And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich
man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the
beggar died ...................................: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Jesus' listeners were already familiar with these elements (as are we) - it's just plain ol' life on planet earth.
But here’s an UNearthly story:
..........and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom .................
And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and
Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and
send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am
tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime
receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted,
and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf
fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to
us, that would come from thence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou
wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify
unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They
have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham:
but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they
hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from
the dead.
Who was already familiar with these elements? No one. No living person has experienced this. It makes no attempt to
interpret the earthly part of the story; but rather it’s a continuation of the same story.
I have to conclude that this is not a parable; but rather, revelation.
.
The human soul is relatively sturdy, but not indestructible. It can be rubbed
out, and apparently a number of souls are on track for exactly that.
• Matt 10:28 . . Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill
the soul; but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in
Hell
The Hell in that verse isn't the Hell depicted in Luke 16:19-31. The rich
man's Hell is translated from the Greek word for Hades, whereas Matthew's
is something far worse. It looks to me that for the time being; people keep
their souls while down in Hades and then lose them later on in that other
place.
So then, I think we can safely allege that whereas some human souls will
make it to eternity, others won't.
• Matt 7:13-14 . . Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and
broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But
small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find
it.
• Matt 22:14 . . For many are called, but few are chosen.
_
The human soul is relatively sturdy, but not indestructible. It can be rubbed
out, and apparently a number of souls are on track for exactly that.
• Matt 10:28 . . Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill
the soul; but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in
Hell
The Hell in that verse isn't the Hell depicted in Luke 16:19-31. The rich
man's Hell is translated from the Greek word for Hades, whereas Matthew's
is something far worse. It looks to me that for the time being; people keep
their souls while down in Hades and then lose them later on in that other
place.
So then, I think we can safely allege that whereas some human souls will
make it to eternity, others won't.
• Matt 7:13-14 . . Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and
broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But
small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find
it.
• Matt 22:14 . . For many are called, but few are chosen.
_