What was the "how shall I KNOW" of Genesis 15?

[cv5]

Gen 15:8
And he said, “Lord GOD, how shall I know that I will inherit it?”

Gen 15:10
Then he brought all these to Him and cut them in two, down the middle, and placed each piece opposite the other; but he did not cut the birds in two.

Gen 15:17
And it came to pass, when the sun went down and it was dark, that behold, there appeared a smoking oven and a burning torch that passed between those pieces.

Abraham must have witnessed God resurrecting these dead animals! Thus the unshakeable faith of Abraham endured.

Jhn 20:29
Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.

 

[Oncefallen]

Abraham must have witnessed God resurrecting these dead animals! Thus the unshakeable faith of Abraham endured.

Ummm, where in the Genesis text does it even come close to implying that?

The walking between two halves of an animal by the two parties of a covenant was the tradition of the time.

What God told Abraham by two separate representations of Himself walking through was the God was entering into a covenant with Himself to carry his promise to completion.

 

[posthuman]

The walking between two halves of an animal by the two parties of a covenant was the tradition of the time.

What God told Abraham by two separate representations of Himself walking through was the God was entering into a covenant with Himself to carry his promise to completion.

if the custom is that both parties who make the covenant walk through the midst, then that it was not Abraham that walked through, but God in two persons, indicates that a person of God is acting as Abraham's intercessor for the covenant -- because God does not call it a 'covenant with Himself' but a "covenant with Abraham" ((Leviticus 26:42))

Christ takes Abraham's place while Abraham is in a 'deep sleep' -- vis-a-vis dead, as seen in Ephesians 2:5, Colossians 2:13-15, Romans 2:1-5, etc

 

[posthuman]

Ummm, where in the Genesis text does it even come close to implying that?

because it is clearly a picture of our salvation -- and the kingdom of God within us, which makes alive those things that were dead
if Abraham did not see them resurrect materially at that time, he will surely see them rise again in the resurrection to come. they are not unclean animals, but clean, and the two birds remained whole -- living souls in which is the Breath of Life

 

[cv5]

Ummm, where in the Genesis text does it even come close to implying that?

The walking between two halves of an animal by the two parties of a covenant was the tradition of the time.

What God told Abraham by two separate representations of Himself walking through was the God was entering into a covenant with Himself to carry his promise to completion.

Oh....just a hunch.

Gen 15:11
And when the vultures came down on the carcasses, Abram drove them away.

 

[Blade]

because it is clearly a picture of our salvation -- and the kingdom of God within us, which makes alive those things that were dead
if Abraham did not see them resurrect materially at that time, he will surely see them rise again in the resurrection to come. they are not unclean animals, but clean, and the two birds remained whole -- living souls in which is the Breath of Life

Thats not what he asked

 

[cv5]

Ummm, where in the Genesis text does it even come close to implying that?

The walking between two halves of an animal by the two parties of a covenant was the tradition of the time.

What God told Abraham by two separate representations of Himself walking through was the God was entering into a covenant with Himself to carry his promise to completion.

The better question:

Where are the New Testament exemplars of this Genesis 15 incident? Because there is always a NT fulfillment of OT examples.
Literal real resurrections?

Patterns. Types. NT fulfilments. It's all there.

 

[Oncefallen]

The better question:

Where are the New Testament exemplars of this Genesis 15 incident? Because there is always a NT fulfillment of OT examples.
Literal real resurrections?

Patterns. Types. NT fulfilments. It's all there.

Every major doctrinal error has begun with someone forming an erroneous premise and then forcing scripture to prove it rather than reforming their premise.

I will grant you that there are many NT fulfillments of OT imagery many of which are within the law and fulfilled by Christ (think the ceremonial feasts) but to go from there to say that EVERY image in the OT has a NT fulfillment goes beyond a stretch.

 

[cv5]

Gen 15:10
Then he brought all these to Him and cut them in two, down the middle, and placed each piece opposite the other; but he did not cut the birds in two.

Hint: two birds, not divided. The symbolic type of the hypostatic union aka incarnation. One can deduce so much more.
Genesis 15 is loaded. Including the resurrection IMO.

Tangential but germane: Jesus in His incarnation contains the infinite Father, therefore Jesus is likewise infinite.

Jhn 14:10
“Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.
Jhn 17:21
“that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.

 

[cv5]

because it is clearly a picture of our salvation -- and the kingdom of God within us, which makes alive those things that were dead
if Abraham did not see them resurrect materially at that time, he will surely see them rise again in the resurrection to come. they are not unclean animals, but clean, and the two birds remained whole -- living souls in which is the Breath of Life

Red X's: "You have been listening to that S.A. Chronister again haven't you!"

Me: "Yes sir. Yes I have."

 

[posthuman]

Thats not what he asked

He asked where the resurrection of the flesh that had been broken was implied by Genesis 15.

the answer is that it's implied by the correlation of Genesis 15 with our salvation through the death and resurrection of Christ, by which we also will be resurrected.

Abraham asks how he's going to know that he himself will inherit the land, when God had just told him he would him he would have descendants as great as the sands of the sea and stars of the heavens, in a discussion about his as-yet-unseen heir.

Abraham himself will inherit it because he will be resurrected - his descendants, the children of Israel, don't come into possession of it for some 500 years later.

so this is, how will Abraham know that he has eternal life? how does Abraham know that he will be resurrected?
And the answer to that is the broken flesh, the two whole birds, with God walking between them in intercession for Abraham.

what happens when God is in the midst of the broken parts of our flesh?

John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have [it] more abundantly.

 

[posthuman]

I will grant you that there are many NT fulfillments of OT imagery many of which are within the law and fulfilled by Christ (think the ceremonial feasts) but to go from there to say that EVERY image in the OT has a NT fulfillment goes beyond a stretch.

How about to go there from here:

Luke 24:27
And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, He expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning Himself.

 

[cv5]

Every major doctrinal error has begun with someone forming an erroneous premise and then forcing scripture to prove it rather than reforming their premise.

I will grant you that there are many NT fulfillments of OT imagery many of which are within the law and fulfilled by Christ (think the ceremonial feasts) but to go from there to say that EVERY image in the OT has a NT fulfillment goes beyond a stretch.

From what I have come to understand I respectfully disagree. On the contrary I have yet to see an example that is not, one way or another!

Here is something to think about: What does the accountant of Baalam's ass have to do with the one and only narrow Path to salvation where Christ is preventing passage (to certain individuals) with His sword in His hand?

Or how does the 2 Ki 1:9 account of the Captains of 50s demanding Elijah "come down" (testing him) correlates with the chief priests scribes and elders mocking "come down" (testing Him) of Matt 27:42?

It's all there man......everywhere all the time. Profoundly omnisciently miraculously supersaturated.

 

[cv5]

How about to go there from here:

Luke 24:27
And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, He expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning Himself.

Keyword "ALL".....!

 

[cv5]

Abraham asks how he's going to know that he himself will inherit the land, when God had just told him he would him he would have descendants as great as the sands of the sea and stars of the heavens, in a discussion about his as-yet-unseen heir.

Abraham himself will inherit it because he will be resurrected - his descendants, the children of Israel, don't come into possession of it for some 500 years later.

Could it be that Genesis 15 is not correctly taught in the Churches today?
Quite a devastating omission given the astounding profundity of the chapter.

 

[posthuman]

Keyword "ALL".....!

not to be omitted!

 

[cv5]

Gen 15:8
And he said, “Lord GOD, how shall I know that I will inherit it?”

Gen 15:10
Then he brought all these to Him and cut them in two, down the middle, and placed each piece opposite the other; but he did not cut the birds in two.

Gen 15:17
And it came to pass, when the sun went down and it was dark, that behold, there appeared a smoking oven and a burning torch that passed between those pieces.

Abraham must have witnessed God resurrecting these dead animals! Thus the unshakeable faith of Abraham endured.

Jhn 20:29
Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.

The Apostle John's seventh PROOF that Jesus is God: the resurrection of Lazarus.
I can thereby rest comfortably in my view of Genesis 15.

Makes sense?

 

[Dino246]

The Apostle John's seventh PROOF that Jesus is God: the resurrection of Lazarus.
I can thereby rest comfortably in my view of Genesis 15.

Makes sense?

You can rest wherever you like, but there is nothing in Genesis 15 about resurrection of the sacrificed animals.

 

[cv5]

You can rest wherever you like, but there is nothing in Genesis 15 about resurrection of the sacrificed animals.

Then again, the consummation/resolution of both the Old and New Covenants "ends" up with.........resurrection.
Consider that. And so so much more.

Modern day "cookie-cutter Christian teachings" always seem to come up way short IMO.

 

[Dino246]

Then again, the consummation/resolution of both the Old and New Covenants "ends" up with.........resurrection.
Consider that. And so so much more.

Modern day "cookie-cutter Christian teachings" always seem to come up way short IMO.

Ditto post #2.