What was Jesus saying when He said "you must be born again"

[rhern]

John 3

King James Version


3 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

 

[p_rehbein]

uh, er, so............what do YOU think He was saying?

 

[rhern]

uh, er, so............what do YOU think He was saying?

Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

 

[p_rehbein]

What do you think Nicodemus thought He was saying?

 

[AndyMaleh]

Jesus was effectively saying that one has to completely forget himself from before getting to know God and be born again as God's servant. That means, no more living outside of religion. Life must be completely God based. It is basically true acceptance of God's reality and true adulthood.

Before getting to know God, people might think the world is the perceived flesh only. Once they get to know God, people also get to know that life is actually spiritual. Everything that is seen has also a part that is unseen. People may only live correctly by accounting for spirit in addition to perceived flesh.

 

[Hungry]

He is saying that man is not flesh alone. We are also spirit. The part of us that communicates with the unseen, needs to be surfaced and is what guides us. Our desires of the flesh are inspired by the flesh (endocrine system), and will die with the flesh. The part that transcends and exists out of these earthly vehicles, is what matters. We are grafted to Christ by our spirit. If we don’t consciously go into “spiritual labour”, bringing forth our spirit from within, into the world, we forfeit our opportunity to be grafted to Christ, and being redeemed by God.

 

[rhern]

Ezekiel 37

Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.

 

[Runningman]

John 3

King James Version


3 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

That Jesus didn't deny Nicodemus makes me think that he already partially understood the concept Jesus was saying. Sounds like a physical birth plus a spiritual birth. It is an act of the Holy Spirit to produce someone being born of the Spirit.

John 3:8

"The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

John 3:8 seems to mean that we cannot control what the Holy Spirit does nor are able to understand the exact processes, chain reactions, and mechanisms whereby the Holy Spirit births a born again believer.

John 20:29

"Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

It's about faith now.

 

[rhern]

That Jesus didn't deny Nicodemus makes me think that he already partially understood the concept Jesus was saying. Sounds like a physical birth plus a spiritual birth. It is an act of the Holy Spirit to produce someone being born of the Spirit.

John 3:8

"The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

John 3:8 seems to mean that we cannot control what the Holy Spirit does nor are able to understand the exact processes, chain reactions, and mechanisms whereby the Holy Spirit births a born again believer.

John 20:29

"Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

It's about faith now.

Jesus had not sent the comforter yet which is the Holy spirit,

so how was Nicodemus to understand being born again as a spiritual thing rather that a physical thing.

John 3 King James Version (KJV)

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

((Jesus did not say no, you are wrong in your understanding. So this means Nicodemus was on the right track.

Jesus reaffirms by saying: 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

When women are are about to gives birth they say my water has broke.

this is a physical happening. Only God's Spirit can bring a person who has died back to life.

 

[notuptome]

Jesus is teaching Nicodemus that no man is good enough to enter heaven. The wages of sin being death teaches that one must die to sin in order to be free from sin. Having died to sin one must then be made alive to enter the kingdom of God.

Nicodemus did not understand it that day but he would after Christs death. The natural man must die and the Spiritual man be made alive.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[rhern]

Jesus is teaching Nicodemus that no man is good enough to enter heaven. The wages of sin being death teaches that one must die to sin in order to be free from sin. Having died to sin one must then be made alive to enter the kingdom of God.

Nicodemus did not understand it that day but he would after Christs death. The natural man must die and the Spiritual man be made alive.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Jesus did not tell Nicodemus that he was wrong in his understanding about seeing the Kingdom.

But in-fact reinforce the idea by saying "You must be Born again to enter the Kingdom

 

[notuptome]

Jesus did not tell Nicodemus that he was wrong in his understanding about seeing the Kingdom.

But in-fact reinforce the idea by saying "You must be Born again to enter the Kingdom

Jesus showed Nicodemus that even with all he had done it was not enough. Nicodemus was faced by the knowledge that he could not give up all in this world to inherit a place the next.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[rhern]

Jesus showed Nicodemus that even with all he had done it was not enough. Nicodemus was faced by the knowledge that he could not give up all in this world to inherit a place the next.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Please show me the scripture and I will be satisfied

 

[Runningman]

Jesus had not sent the comforter yet which is the Holy spirit,

so how was Nicodemus to understand being born again as a spiritual thing rather that a physical thing.

John 3 King James Version (KJV)

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

((Jesus did not say no, you are wrong in your understanding. So this means Nicodemus was on the right track.

Jesus reaffirms by saying: 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

When women are are about to gives birth they say my water has broke.

this is a physical happening. Only God's Spirit can bring a person who has died back to life.

Yes true, but the Holy Spirit did have an active role in both creation and Jesus's ministry prior to Jesus's death and resurrection. In Genesis 1:2 the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. In John 1:32 the Spirit, like a dove, descended upon Jesus and remained upon him. Verse 33 says Jesus will baptize with the Holy Spirit.

While true, the Comforter had not come yet, I don't think that is to say he was not present. I think the scope of what the Holy Spirit's ministry is changed to a Comforter and Counselor of Truth after Jesus ascended to heaven.

 

[rhern]

Yes true, but the Holy Spirit did have an active role in both creation and Jesus's ministry prior to Jesus's death and resurrection. In Genesis 1:2 the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. In John 1:32 the Spirit, like a dove, descended upon Jesus and remained upon him. Verse 33 says Jesus will baptize with the Holy Spirit.

While true, the Comforter had not come yet, I don't think that is to say he was not present. I think the scope of what the Holy Spirit's ministry is changed to a Comforter and Counselor of Truth after Jesus ascended to heaven.

please show scripture pertaining to this question:

Jesus had not sent the comforter yet which is the Holy spirit,

so how was Nicodemus to understand being born again as a spiritual thing rather that a physical thing?

 

[Runningman]

please show scripture pertaining to this question:

Jesus had not sent the comforter yet which is the Holy spirit,

so how was Nicodemus to understand being born again as a spiritual thing rather that a physical thing?

I honestly don't think Nicodemus ever really fully understoodwhat Jesus was talking about, at least in regards to spiritual birth. John 3 Verses 9-15 Jesus lectures Nicodemus on his inability to understand heavenly things. Maybe he eventually figured it out. Who knows.

 

[notuptome]

Please show me the scripture and I will be satisfied

The passage in Luke18:18-27 runs along this same matter in the mindset of the Jews.

Nicodemus is described as a teacher by Jesus. As a teacher he should have known that inheritance of eternal life is by grace and not through merits. Nicodemus should have recognized Jesus from the teachings of Moses and the prophets.

I'm rambling but Nicodemus was looking to Jesus for some credit from Jesus for how he was living. In classic form Nicodemus begins by praising Jesus for His teachings. Jesus cuts right to the heart of the matter and short circuits Nicodemus case for himself.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Nehemiah6]

Sounds like a physical birth plus a spiritual birth.

The physical birth -- common to all mankind -- was automatically discounted by Christ in His response to Nicodemus.

Christ was revealing the absolute necessity of the New Birth, which is (1) supernatural, (2) spiritual, (3) unseen with the human eye, (4) necessary to enter into the Kingdom of God, and (5) enables one to see the invisible Kingdom of God (as presently constituted).

It is when we come to John 3:5 that a huge number of misunderstandings and misinterpretations arise. "Born of the Spirit" means born of God, born from above, and born again. This is the totally supernatural effect of believing on the Lord Jesus Christ and being saved (John 1:12,13). But what does "born of water" mean?

If people would go back to the Old Testament and see what it says about the New Birth (and Nicodemus should have know this but either forget it or ignored it) they would realize that the New Birth is not produced through water baptism. It is the "water" of the Word of God, as well as the "water" of the Holy Spirit that Christ was talking about (since water is used as a metaphor in this connection).

EZEKIEL 36: THE FUTURE REDEMPTION AND RESTORATION OF ISRAEL
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land [Israel].
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

While this is addressed to Israel, it is also a part of the New Covenant, and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost (30 AD) and which will again happen after the Second Coming of Christ.

But when Jesus referred to this while addressing Nicodemus, He also made it a reality for the Church Age. The Church was born on the day of Pentecost, when about 3,000 Jews were given the GIFT of the Holy Spirit and saved by grace. And ever since every sinner who was saved received the gift of the Holy Spirit.

And it is only after a sinner receives the gift of the Spirit that He is "born of the Spirit". But the "water" is the Word of God -- indeed the Gospel -- and Peter made this clear in his first epistle (1 Pet 1:23-25), but called the Gospel the "incorruptible seed" which produces the New Birth.

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the Word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the Word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the Word which by the Gospel is preached unto you.

 

[Wansvic]

I believe Jesus statement "...Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? (John 3:10) indicated that Nicodemus should have understood what Jesus was talking about. How? As a teacher of Israel one would expect Nicodemus to be familiar with Esaias (Isaiah) and the prophet Joel's words (Isa 40:3-5 Joel 2:28-29) that paralleled what John the Baptist was then preaching.

John the Baptist's message of the need for all to be baptized in water for the remission of sin was introduced to the Jewish population and confirmed by Jesus. Furthermore John's message included the fact that Jesus would baptize with the Holy Ghost at a future time.
This message clearly paralleled what Jesus said to Nicodemus about what was essential for one's rebirth experience; water and the Spirit.

Mark 1:4-8
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.
And John was clothed with camel's hair, and with a girdle of a skin about his loins; and he did eat locusts and wild honey;
And preached, saying, There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose.
I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

Luke 3:3-7
And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;
As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;
And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.
Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

 

[rhern]

The physical birth -- common to all mankind -- was automatically discounted by Christ in His response to Nicodemus.

Christ was revealing the absolute necessity of the New Birth, which is (1) supernatural, (2) spiritual, (3) unseen with the human eye, (4) necessary to enter into the Kingdom of God, and (5) enables one to see the invisible Kingdom of God (as presently constituted).

It is when we come to John 3:5 that a huge number of misunderstandings and misinterpretations arise. "Born of the Spirit" means born of God, born from above, and born again. This is the totally supernatural effect of believing on the Lord Jesus Christ and being saved (John 1:12,13). But what does "born of water" mean?

If people would go back to the Old Testament and see what it says about the New Birth (and Nicodemus should have know this but either forget it or ignored it) they would realize that the New Birth is not produced through water baptism. It is the "water" of the Word of God, as well as the "water" of the Holy Spirit that Christ was talking about (since water is used as a metaphor in this connection).

EZEKIEL 36: THE FUTURE REDEMPTION AND RESTORATION OF ISRAEL
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land [Israel].
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

While this is addressed to Israel, it is also a part of the New Covenant, and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost (30 AD) and which will again happen after the Second Coming of Christ.

But when Jesus referred to this while addressing Nicodemus, He also made it a reality for the Church Age. The Church was born on the day of Pentecost, when about 3,000 Jews were given the GIFT of the Holy Spirit and saved by grace. And ever since every sinner who was saved received the gift of the Holy Spirit.

And it is only after a sinner receives the gift of the Spirit that He is "born of the Spirit". But the "water" is the Word of God -- indeed the Gospel -- and Peter made this clear in his first epistle (1 Pet 1:23-25), but called the Gospel the "incorruptible seed" which produces the New Birth.

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the Word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the Word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the Word which by the Gospel is preached unto you.