Rom 2:4 tells us it is the goodness of God that leads to repentance. Some continuously and repeatedly reject God’s goodness.
It is God’s prerogative to allow mankind to willfully and repeatedly reject the gospel.
What must I do to be saved
- Thread starter MarkWilliams
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It is God’s prerogative to allow mankind to willfully and repeatedly reject the gospel.
It all goes back to the fact that when God created man, He created a free moral agent.
Human beings have the freedom to choose God or reject Him, since any other option would mean a forced loyalty and a forced worship from His creatures. But God wants men to freely choose to obey Him. That is exactly what Adam and Eve should have done. They had ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE for disobeying God.
Similarly sinners have absolutely no excuse for disobeying the Gospel, and even before the Gospel was preached on earth, creation revealed the true God to mankind (see Romans 1). But the majority chose to disregard the true God and worshiped idols instead.
Yep, I think so,
In the last judgement when God say, to Sam, depart from me, because you not accept me, Sam can not say, it is your fault, I do not accept you because you not predestined me.
Yep ... all who have been born (from Adam and Eve to today and into the future) have the work of the law written in their hearts
Romans 2:
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts ...
Please note, this work of the law written in their hearts is not the same as what God does in the born again believer as He actually writes His Word in the heart of the believer. It is different. Please don't ask me to explain how it is different because I don't know. I only know why it is different — because the person spoken of in Rom 2:15 is not a believer. Rom 2:15 is speaking of the gentiles who do not know the law (the Word of God) but by nature they do the things contained in the law (the 10 commandments).
Even today we see people who are unbelievers who know it is wrong to kill, commit adultery, steal, lie, covet (desire) their neighbor's wife/possessions. They do this by nature because they have the work of the law written in their hearts.
God paved the way for unbelievers to not reject His Word when it is spoken to them. That is why those who find themselves cast into the lake of fire are without excuse.
T
theanointedsinner
Guest
God created Adam and Eve:
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Adam and Eve blew it and all their descendants were born in the image and likeness of Adam:
Genesis 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image
and God has one only begotten Son:
1 John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
Just because someone was born in the image of Adam / Eve in their fallen state does not mean God was not / is not / will not continue to be merciful.
T
theanointedsinner
Guest
will at least one of God's elect come from that nation in question?
if yes, that nation will last till the inevitable future for the answer to that question becomes "no"
if no, God will wipe out that nation, to be merciful to many unborn babies
is this also why God also allow hell-bound people to continue to live on this earth?
if yes, that nation will last till the inevitable future for the answer to that question becomes "no"
if no, God will wipe out that nation, to be merciful to many unborn babies
is this also why God also allow hell-bound people to continue to live on this earth?
So the Bible tells us that Gods law is written on every person heart, believers and non believers alike. I've meet many non believers who live a very clean life, they are decent hard working law abiding citizens and yet they are destined for the lake of fire. That's hard to accept from my point of view, I believe in the sovereignty of God and that everything He does is perfect but this particular Bible teaching is hard to deal with for me.
I have also met Christians who lived very sinful lives before they were converted, who I thought would never believe yet they did and those really good people didn't and some have died in unbelief. There's still an element of mystery, as to why so many good people reject the Gospel and others who seem to live lives of sin come to the Lord in repentance and they are saved.
God works in mysterious ways, but I have great difficulty accepting that those good people will go into the lake of fire.
God wants "hell-bound" people to change their minds, and choose to believe the gospel.
Eze 33:
11) Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
There are NONE "good". Not one, save Jesus.
Sinners that repent understand this, and hence, their need of a Savior. Those that appear "good" according to mans reckoning, think their conduct and behavior means they need not a Savior.
It sounds like some of those "good" people took what Jesus said literally when He said "I have not come to save the righteous, for only the sick are in need of a physician" or something similar.
I get what you mean though, most of the good people don't see any need of a savior. They say things like, it's good that you believe in Jesus if that's what you believe then good for you but each to his own. They don't like anyone pushing their religious views on them, they see it as a violation of their personal freedom.
I was involved in an outreach ministry and we were knocking on doors, and to our shock the Jehovah Witnesses were in the same street doing the same thing. That made our job impossible s we had to go to another area, it was a reminder that we are competing with false religions who poison the well.
It is not true that God's law is "written on every person heart, believers and non believers alike".
God's law is written on the heart of the born again believer.
The work of God's law is written on the hearts of those who are not born again.
Born again believer:
Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people
Unbeliever:
Romans 2:
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts
There is a difference between having God write His law in the heart of the believer and having the work of the law written in the heart.
As far as those cast in the lake of fire ... I believe whoever ends up there will know exactly why they end up there. God judges righteous judgment and He gives every person more than one opportunity to believe.
Isaiah 55:6 tells us Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near. I believe we have this lifetime to seek the Lord. He does not hide from us.
Jeremiah 29:13 tells us And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart. How many people hold a little of their heart back when they seek God and then blame God because they can't find Him? And it's not because God is "hiding". It's that they did not seek Him with their whole heart.
T
theanointedsinner
Guest
Shrume, God is omnipotent, but God is still justice, and God needs to be an honest judge who judge fairly, I just don't know why God would love anyone in the first place
T
theanointedsinner
Guest
God doesn't want forced loyalty, or forced worship (God is omnipotent, but any way to change that would cause loyalty and worship to become forced)
people choose to disobey, but God out of his love continues to be merciful
and inspite of how people willfully and repeatedly reject the Gospel, God want people to change their minds, and choose to believe the gospel, desiring that all repent instead of perishing.
people willfully and repeatedly reject the Gospel
and it pains God's heart to allow that, my question is, ... um, nevermind, God loves the sinner so much, that God somehow allow his heart to be hurt for sinners in hell because of how much he loves those who choose to make the resolve to willfully disobey, no matter how much God gently pursues the sinner, whispering in their heart "God loves you, but sin seperates us, but I still want to be with you, belive the gospel, please" ... on this issue, I become silent. God is love, no matter how people reject his love. I ask questions hoping to learn, thank you.
people choose to disobey, but God out of his love continues to be merciful
and inspite of how people willfully and repeatedly reject the Gospel, God want people to change their minds, and choose to believe the gospel, desiring that all repent instead of perishing.
people willfully and repeatedly reject the Gospel
and it pains God's heart to allow that, my question is, ... um, nevermind, God loves the sinner so much, that God somehow allow his heart to be hurt for sinners in hell because of how much he loves those who choose to make the resolve to willfully disobey, no matter how much God gently pursues the sinner, whispering in their heart "God loves you, but sin seperates us, but I still want to be with you, belive the gospel, please" ... on this issue, I become silent. God is love, no matter how people reject his love. I ask questions hoping to learn, thank you.
The greatest mystery for mankind is why some believe and find salvation, while others who are very good and loving people chose not to believe. I know so many really good people who simply don't believe and it makes me wonder what it is that separates the believer from the non believer. We both have free choice yet one chooses not to believe in God, even though there is so much evidence for His existence. Even the predestination and election of believers is a great mystery.
Answering the Question to the post
1st step: Believe: John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
2nd step: After Believing, surrender to Christ : Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Basically Born Again)
Final step: Once Saved, Continue:
Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
1st step: Believe: John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
2nd step: After Believing, surrender to Christ : Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Basically Born Again)
Final step: Once Saved, Continue:
Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Wow, that's such a simple formula to enter into eternal paradise for free.
My question is, if it's so simple and free why doesn't the whole world jump on board. Why is over 95% of the world's population ignoring it.
Could it be possible that the Word of God is foolishness to those who are perishing, just as the Bible says it is. Could it be that it's foolishness to every person until God opens their spiritual eyes to see the truth and repent.
Could it be that God is the author and finisher of our salvation.
Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
The word "hold" is the Greek word katechō which means to suppress, restrain, hold back.
Those who are ungodly/unrighteous suppress the truth when they hear it.
It's not that God withholds from those who are ungodly or unrighteous.
I confess that I don't know why some are ungodly/unrighteous and suppress the truth when they hear it. But I do believe God knows exactly why they do, I would go so far as to say He is the One who causes them to suppress it. I know most people don't agree with this view but I believe it is the only Biblically logical conclusion.
The answer is just as simple. Men love their sin and that love convinces them that they will not experience eternal condemnation.
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Jesus said it.
For the cause of Christ
Roger