What is the difference between the old and new covenant?

Soyeong · Dec 25, 2023

Blik said:

The Mosaic Covenant is eternal (Exodus 31:14-17, Leviticus 24:8), so the only way that it can be replaced by the New Covenant is if the New Covenant includes everything in it plus more, which is what it means to make something obsolete (Hebrews 8:13). So the New Covenant still involves following the Mosaic Law (Hebrews 8:10) plus it is based on better promises and has a superior mediator (Hebrews 8:6).

Soyeong · Dec 25, 2023

Blik said:

Indeed, each covenant is eternal (Exodus 31:14-17, Leviticus 24:8). In Galatians 3:16-19, a new covenant does not nullify the promise of a covenant that has already been ratified, so again the New Covenant does not nullify the Mosaic Covenant.

In Isaiah 1, the problem was not with offering, incense, New Moon, Sabbaths, appointed festivals, or prayer, but that they were doing those things while their hands were full of blood, so they needed to wash and make themselves clean, remove their evil deeds and learn to do good, seek justice and correct oppression. Likewise, in Psalms 51:16-19, God will not delight in sacrifice, the sacrifices pf God are a broken and contrite heart, do good, build up the walls of Jerusalem, then God will light in right sacrifices, in burnt offerings, and bulls being offers on His altar.

Soyeong · Dec 25, 2023

Bob-Carabbio said:

Abraham has was made righteous by faith (Genesis 15:6) and this is the only way to become righteous that is testified about in the Law and the Prophets (Romans 3:21-22), so that was the way to become righteous under the Mosaic Covenant. The point of the sacrificial system as always been to testify about Christ, so that is again the way that sins were removed under the Mosaic Covenant. In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so that has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith, even under the Mosaic Covenant.

p_rehbein · Dec 25, 2023

Blik said:

The First Covenant: Law was given to the Jews. It was, and still is, for bringing them into Judgement.

The New Covenant is under the Law of Faith! It is for the purpose of giving Gods Salvation Plan to all mankind.

Jesus fulfilled the 1st Covenant, as He fulfilled the promise of a Messiah. Jesus paid the price of redemption for all who believe with His precious blood on Calvary's Cross

We, the Church, are under the New Covenant.

Soyeong · Dec 25, 2023

p_rehbein said:

In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Mosaic Law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so that is what it means to be under grace, the Mosaic Law is the Law of Faith, and this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. It also makes sense that the New Covenant is under the Law of Faith because in Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts. In Titus 2:14, Jesu gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law is the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross (Acts 21:20).

Bob-Carabbio · Dec 25, 2023

Soyeong said:

Abraham has was made righteous by faith (Genesis 15:6)

Actually he wasn't "made righteous" at all, NOBODY WAS until after Calvary. Abraham had FAITH that he WOULD BE made righteous. WE Have faith that we WERE MADE RIGHTEOUS.

Soyeong · Dec 25, 2023

In Genesis 6:8-9, Noah was described as righteous long before Calvary and the same is true of many other people in the Bible. Character traits are not something that are earned as the result of having first done them for a certain amount, but rather the only way to attain a character trait is through faith that we ought to be a doer of that trait. For example, it is not the case that we need to have first done a certain amount of courageous acts in order to become courageous as the result, but rather the only way to become courageous is through faith, and the same is true of righteousness and every other character trait. In 1 John 3:7, whoever practices righteousness is righteous even as they are righteous. God's law is His instructions for how to practice righteousness, not for how to become righteous, but rather becoming someone who is righteous through faith means becoming someone who practices righteousness through faith.

Nehemiah6 · Dec 25, 2023

2 CORINTHIANS 3: THE OLD AND NEW COVENANTS CONTRASTED
1Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. [Note: the Greek word diatheke can be translated either as "testament" or as "covenant"]
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:

13And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Nehemiah6 · Dec 25, 2023

"Actually he [Abraham] wasn't "made righteous" at all".

Which means that you do not understand justification and imputed righteousness. He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. (Rom 4:20-22.

When God imputes righteousness to the one who believes, He places the righteousness of Christ upon that person. God sees that person as righteous, because he has been "made righteous" by God's grace.

studentoftheword · Dec 25, 2023

What is the difference between the old and new covenant?

The Old Covenant had 2 Participants ------God had His part and Israel had their part -----

God gave Israel Blessings and Cursings ------If Israel kept the Laws God bestowed Blessings on them ----If they didn't keep the laws God bestowed Cursing on them ------So God had a part to play and the israelites had a part to play ----there is no Faith needed in keeping laws -----just obedience ----

Blessings for Obeying the Law
28 “Now, if you will be careful to obey the Lord your God and follow all his commands that I tell you today, the Lord your God will put you high above all the nations on earth. 2 If you will obey the Lord your God, all these blessings will come to you and be yours:

Curses for Not Obeying the Law
15 “But if you don’t listen to what the Lord your God tells you—if you don’t obey all his commands and laws that I tell you today—then all these bad things will happen to you:

The New Covenant Had one Participant -----

Jesus ----who paid the price for all and took the Curse of the law and destroyed it so there is just the Blessing for those who want to receive Him by Faith------we had no part to play in bringing in the New Covenant -----and there is nothing that anyone has to do except freely Receive by Faith what Jesus has made available -----

There was just 1 participant in bring in the New Covenant -----

Soyeong · Dec 25, 2023

studentoftheword said:

The OT does speak about grace and faith, so it is not good to act like these concepts weren't invented until the New Covenant. For example, in Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Torah, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. In Proverbs 3:5-7, we have a choice between whether we are going to lean on our own understanding of right and wrong by doing what is right in our own eyes or whether we are going to trust God with all of our heart to correctly divide between right and wrong through obeying what He has instructed, so obedience to God has always been a matter of grace and faith. Moreover, in Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts, so it still involves our obedience to God by grace through faith.

Bob-Carabbio · Dec 25, 2023

Cameron143 said:

And since the OLD COVENANT has been superseded, the temple sacrifice is no longer valid (Not that the Jewish theologians would agree). (Heb 8:7-13)

They'll build their NEW TEMPLE, and their "Messiah" will come to it. But they won't enjoy how that works out -

Cameron143 · Dec 25, 2023

Bob-Carabbio said:

The first part is right. Wouldn't bet on the second part.

Blik · Dec 25, 2023

studentoftheword said:

What is the difference between the old and new covenant?

The Old Covenant had 2 Participants ------God had His part and Israel had their part -----

God gave Israel Blessings and Cursings ------If Israel kept the Laws God bestowed Blessings on them ----If they didn't keep the laws God bestowed Cursing on them ------So God had a part to play and the israelites had a part to play ----there is no Faith needed in keeping laws -----just obedience ----

Blessings for Obeying the Law
28 “Now, if you will be careful to obey the Lord your God and follow all his commands that I tell you today, the Lord your God will put you high above all the nations on earth. 2 If you will obey the Lord your God, all these blessings will come to you and be yours:

Curses for Not Obeying the Law
15 “But if you don’t listen to what the Lord your God tells you—if you don’t obey all his commands and laws that I tell you today—then all these bad things will happen to you:

The New Covenant Had one Participant -----

Jesus ----who paid the price for all and took the Curse of the law and destroyed it so there is just the Blessing for those who want to receive Him by Faith------we had no part to play in bringing in the New Covenant -----and there is nothing that anyone has to do except freely Receive by Faith what Jesus has made available -----

There was just 1 participant in bring in the New Covenant -----

This is true today in our time of the new covenant as it was under the old covenant. If you don't believe it, try robbing a bank.

This truth does not mean that there was not forgiveness of sin under both covenants. God, from the begging gives life.

Webers.Home · Dec 26, 2023

~
Messiah's jurisdiction as a high priest is limited to a Heavenly sphere (Heb
8:4). The earthen sphere is still the domain of Aaron and his sons in spite of
Jesus' intrinsically superior priesthood. And one day, in Messiah's very
kingdom itself, Aaron's family, and the Levites, will once again be at their
posts discharging their official duties in Jerusalem. (Ex 40:12-15 & Jer
33:17-22)

** The covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God per Exodus,
Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy may be obsolete but that old dog can
still bark. In point of fact it will be standard by which the Diaspora will be
evaluated to determine who enters Messiah's kingdom and who gets culled
from the herd and sent elsewhere. (Ezek 20:33-38)
_

Cameron143 · Dec 26, 2023

Webers.Home said:

~
Messiah's jurisdiction as a high priest is limited to a Heavenly sphere (Heb
8:4). The earthen sphere is still the domain of Aaron and his sons in spite of
Jesus' intrinsically superior priesthood. And one day, in Messiah's very
kingdom itself, Aaron's family, and the Levites, will once again be at their
posts discharging their official duties in Jerusalem. (Ex 40:12-15 & Jer
33:17-22)

** The covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God per Exodus,
Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy may be obsolete but that old dog can
still bark. In point of fact it will be standard by which the Diaspora will be
evaluated to determine who enters Messiah's kingdom and who gets culled
from the herd and sent elsewhere. (Ezek 20:33-38)
_

Wouldn't this be restoring an aspect of a defunct covenant?

ThyKingdomComeSoon · Jan 11, 2024

Blik said:

Dear Blik,

I would like your opinion on the new covenant, I have a question regarding the description of the new covenant as quoted from Jeremiah;

The New Covenant
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.
Jer 31:32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their fathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt— a covenant they broke, though I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD.
Jer 31:33 “But this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD. I will put My law in their minds and inscribe it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they will be My people.
Jer 31:34 No longer will each man teach his neighbor or his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ because they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquities and will remember their sins no more.”

I know Jesus said; (KJV)
Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Mrk 14:24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.
Luk 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

Jesus is speaking of a testament to remember the shedding of his precious blood in remission of out sins, other bible version use the word covenant, but after a search from religious libraries, the proper term to use is testament which does not have the same meaning as covenant.

Of course, I follow the commandments, they are my moral compass, not hard to follow either as many claim, I follow them because Jesus ask for us to do so and also because I Love him and believe in every word he said. For me, this is what it means to believe in Jesus.

My question, is about the start of this new covenant, why I ask this question, it is because Jeremiah 31 refers to the end times that did not yet happen according to scripture. Also I see many want nothing to to with the law or the commandments, yet they claim we are under the new covenant, which says ""I will put My law in their minds and inscribe it on their hearts. How can this be if they do not want to follow the commandments?

Thank-you and be Blessed.

Pilgrimshope · Jan 11, 2024

Cameron143 said:

“and not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: but their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:13-15‬ ‭

Pilgrimshope · Jan 11, 2024

Cameron143 said:

amen

“For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, And in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:8-10, 14-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:18‬ ‭

“And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you. If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name, saith the LORD of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart.

Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces, even the dung of your solemn feasts; and one shall take you away with it. And ye shall know that I have sent this commandment unto you, that my covenant might be with Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

My covenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, and was afraid before my name. The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity.

For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts. But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts. Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.”
‭‭Malachi‬ ‭2:1-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭7:11-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it was only a vailed pattern shown to Moses the levites were o my a pattern of melchezidek who was preist before them the priest who blessed Abraham’s covenant for all nations

“And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth: and blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭14:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that is earablisked four hundred thirty years before the levites were ever given authority by the law

The law that came from Sinai was only meant to let u til Jesus came with abrahams covenant that was blessed I see melchezideks preisthood order and not Aaron’s the children of Israel and tbier covenant was what gave rise to the levites it’s a different covenant wi th dofferent preists a different sacrifice a different mediator a different word a new covenant not according to the old th at Israel broke

glf · Jan 12, 2024

In Gal 3 we learn that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteousness unto him and his seed. This promise was made four hundred and thirty years before the covenant of the law which was added because of transgressions. Also, we see that the law could not make the promise which was by faith of no effect.

In Heb 9 we learn that if the blood of bulls and goats, and the ashes of a heffer sprinkling the unclean sanctifies to the cleansing of the flesh. How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge our consciences from dead works to serve the living God. For this reason, he became the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, that those which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

As for the law, in Mt 5: 18 Jesus tells us: For verily I say uno you; till heaven and earth pass, one joy or one tittle, shall in no wise pass from the law until all be fulfilled. And in Rom 3: 19, we know that what things soever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Again, in Gal 3 we learn, before faith, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith that should afterwards be reviled. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

The law could make no one perfect as pertaining to their conscience.
The new testament has no curse of death for every transgression.
Those whose names are not in the book of life will all be judged by the standard found in the ten commandments.

What is the difference between the old and new covenant?

Active member

Active member

Active member

Senior Member

Active member

Well-known member

Active member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Active member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Active member