What is considered false doctrine?

[biblestudent78]

Sound doctrine is indeed taught by the Holy Spirit. But not everyone learns their doctrine from the Holy Spirit. This is indeed the root of our problem.

How and what are the teachings of the Holy Spirit?

 

[biblestudent78]

Of course Romans 14 covers such things as the questions over personal liberty. You mention a pretribulation rapture, and I reject the modern idea of a rapture totally, pre- mid- or -post. Indeed at the resurrection on the last day, those alive at the time will be caught up and away to be with Christ. There has always been the premillennial, amillennial and postmillennial views held in the church and that is not a point breaking fellowship. John Gill is my favorite theologian, yet he is historic premillennial and I'm more postmillennial, but that does not deter me from studying his Body of Divinity, because what he teaches as the Spiritual Reign of Christ is how I describe my view of the millennium. But, I take the old Baptist approach to this matter. The 1646 First London Confession of Faith I embrace as best describing my faith, on eschatology is limited to a very simple statement:

LII.
There shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust, and everyone shall give an account of himself to God, that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Acts 24:15; 1 Cor. 5:10; Rom. 14:12. [Matt. 25; Rev. 22:11,12,13,14,15.]

It may seem that I reject "soul liberty", but I do not. In fact, I go so far as to placing the question of 2 males in a faithful, monogamous, enduring relationship under Romans 14 because nowhere in Scripture do I find that condemned, even though it is a blazing red flag to most evangelicals. The conclusion of the 1646 Confession reads:

"Thus we desire to give unto Christ that which is His; and unto all lawful authority that which is their due; and to owe nothing to any man but love; to live quietly and peaceably, as it becometh saints, endeavoring in all things to keep a good conscience, and to do unto every man (of what judgment soever) as we would they should do unto us, that as our practice is, so it may prove us to be a conscionable [viz., reasonable], quiet, and harmless people (no ways dangerous or troublesome to human society) and to labor and work with our hands that we may not be chargeable to any, but to give to him that needeth, both friends and enemies, accounting it more excellent to give than to receive. Also we confess, that we know but in part, and that we are ignorant of many things which we desire and seek to know; and if any shall do us that friendly part to show us from the word of God that which we see not, we shall have cause to be thankful to God and them; but if any man shall impose upon us anything that we see not to be commanded by our Lord Jesus Christ, we should in His strength rather embrace all reproaches and tortures of men, to be stripped of all outward comforts, and if it were possible, to die a thousand deaths, rather than to do anything against the least tittle of the truth of God or against the light of our own consciences. And if any shall call what we have said heresy, then do we with the Apostle acknowledge, that after the way they call heresy, worship we the God of our fathers, disclaiming all heresies (rightly so called) because they are against Christ, and to be stedfast and unmoveable, always abounding in obedience to Christ, as knowing our labor shall not be in vain in the Lord."
First London Confession of 1646 | Reformed Theology at A Puritan's Mind

I am distressed that for many Christianity is a test of what theological concepts you hold instead of who holds your daily life. It is possible that we have churchified the original concept of Christianity. It was originally called, "The Way" not the belief. Christ was witnessed by the living breathing life of Christians who had to come to grips with the fact that to love God we must also love each other. "The Way" became descriptive of early Christians that was so visible that Christians all seemed to be going a common way in life. It was not about a common "theology." It was about a life delivering witness of the love of God through Jesus our Christ to the love of our neighbors. We must first love those furthest away from God to distinguish us from the theologic salesman of their times and ours.

 

[biblestudent78]

John, I’d like to describe how “knowing Scripture” came to be the bottom line for me, even though I value the Creeds and Confessions. I grew up in a semi-Arminian, dispensationalist, independent church. I had that pounded into my brain for many years and I was up into my twenties before I encountered Scripture that flat out contradicted what I believed. It is not an easy thing to keep from being led astray by this teaching or that.

Since I saw how wrong I had been in belief on a couple of major points, I surely had no confidence in my independent, DIY approach to Bible based doctrines. I chose to approach it in this manner. America was certainly blessed to be founded by men who honored the Christian faith, and at our founding and even in 1776 there were not that many denominations. The Methodist were not an official denomination in 1776. I decided to peruse the Bible bookstores to find the Creeds and Confessions of the major churches. This began in the 1960s, long before the Internet. I purchased Luther’s Small Catechism, the Westminster Confession of Faith, several Baptist books by men such as Charles H. Spurgeon and began to compare. I was amazed at how similar the documents were on the cardinal doctrines of the Christian faith. Even in recent years, I’ve worshipped in Anglican, Lutheran, Presbyterian and Baptist churches I did not feel as if I were in an apostate church. Admittedly, these were the conservative churches, not the mainline apostate churches.

I admit, I developed almost an obsession over the true biblical faith and how to learn the various points of disagreement, such as over baptism, free or bound will, regeneration, justification, sanctification, etc. In my study, I purchased the book “The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination”, by Loraine Boettner. On election or predestination, itself, I was surprised to find it in the old Baptist Confessions, Luther’s Bondage of the Will, even Article 17 of the 39 Articles of the Anglican Churches as well as in the Reformed churches.

It is certainly true that a person being drawn by the Holy Spirit who has only a Gospel of John booklet can be saved, but then how do you grow in the faith without being taught?

What if "true biblical faith" has very little to do with what you come to believe about "theology" but a great deal more to do with how you live and who you are becoming? Paul reminds us that faith without love is just noise. Love must involve you and others as it is about relationship. So the measure of any strongly held "theology" is "does it lead me to greater of love of God and of my neighbor?" "Does it lead me to love, heal, feed and reconcile like Jesus?" If not, what good is a highly refined theological belief system if it does not pass the the test of Matthew 25?

 

[4urenlightment]

How do we know when to label someone a false teacher or a belief as false?

it says that you'll know them by something they've done or say. That they'll say something that's out of character or contradicts.
But it's up to having the spirit from God in you that will help you out. But you'll have to do the same by testing the spirits to see if they're of God too.

So, basically, we have to wait patiently on the Lord. He will make things happen to let you know what is true or not

Matthew 7:16
By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?

Luke 21:15
For I will give you words and wisdom that none of your adversaries will be able to resist or contradict.

John 18:38
“What is truth?” retorted Pilate. With this he went out again to the Jews gathered there and said, “I find no basis for a charge against him.


1 John 4
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world. ...

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

How and what are the teachings of the Holy Spirit?

Here is one of several passages from Scripture that answers the two-part question you asked...

13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you. (Jn 16:13–15).​

Notice that verse 15 itentifies the "how" (He declares it to us) and the "what" (all things that that the Father and the Son have). The Holy Spirit is "the Spirit of truth" and He guides us "into all truth" (vs 13). There really are no limits to what He teaches us. And we can only learn things from Him when we hear and trust and receive what He says.

 

[Jon777]

I also discovered by reading the Bible for myself that my Baptist upbringing had taught me wrong regarding the doctrine of "once saved, always saved" and had not taught me doctrines beyond the Gospel that would answer questions asked by atheists.
Since you also learned contradictions by encountering Scripture, I do not know why you lack confidence in being able to continue the DYI approach, although certainly it can help to have pastor-teachers and others provide helpful insights. I share mine on a website called <truthseekersfellowship.com> and the threads I sponsor on CC utilize it as a resource. If you peruse it and have any comments or questions, please feel free to let me know.

Do you draw a difference between 'once saved always saved', and the 'perseverance of the saints'? Do you agree or disagree with the following?

"All those that have this precious faith wrought in them by the Spirit, can never finally nor totally
fall away; seeing the gifts of God are without repentance; so that He still begets and nourisheth
in them faith, repentance, love, joy, hope, and all the graces of the Spirit unto immortality; and
though many storms and floods arise, and beat against them, yet they shall never be able to take
them off that foundation and rock, which by faith they are fastened upon; not withstanding,
through unbelief, and the temptations of Satan, the sensible sight of this light and love, be
clouded and overwhelmed for a time; yet God is still the same, and they shall be sure to be kept
by the power of God unto salvation, where they shall enjoy their purchased possession, they
being engraven upon the palms of His hands, and their names having been written in the book of
life from all eternity."

For me, what I underlined is God causing his elect to persevere.

 

[studier]

I am distressed that for many Christianity is a test of what theological concepts you hold instead of who holds your daily life. It is possible that we have churchified the original concept of Christianity. It was originally called, "The Way" not the belief. Christ was witnessed by the living breathing life of Christians who had to come to grips with the fact that to love God we must also love each other. "The Way" became descriptive of early Christians that was so visible that Christians all seemed to be going a common way in life. It was not about a common "theology." It was about a life delivering witness of the love of God through Jesus our Christ to the love of our neighbors. We must first love those furthest away from God to distinguish us from the theologic salesman of their times and ours.

I understand the distress, but see The Way being seeking and guarding accurate theology (keeping God's commandments - love for God) together with love for one another as Jesus commanded. Both are marks of true discipleship and the latter is from the former.

 

[Blain]

How do we know when to label someone a false teacher or a belief as false?

The simplest answer is that they contradict what the word says but sometimes they can be clever mixing in a little scripture a dash of biblical teaching a spot of worhip or faking tongues but in such cases discernment is required.

Some are easy to spot others are more clever in the way they hide their false teachings micing a little half truth in there is the best way to deceive others

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Do you draw a difference between 'once saved always saved', and the 'perseverance of the saints'? Do you agree or disagree with the following?

"All those that have this precious faith wrought in them by the Spirit, can never finally nor totally
fall away; seeing the gifts of God are without repentance; so that He still begets and nourisheth
in them faith, repentance, love, joy, hope, and all the graces of the Spirit unto immortality; and
though many storms and floods arise, and beat against them, yet they shall never be able to take
them off that foundation and rock, which by faith they are fastened upon; not withstanding,
through unbelief, and the temptations of Satan, the sensible sight of this light and love, be
clouded and overwhelmed for a time; yet God is still the same, and they shall be sure to be kept
by the power of God unto salvation, where they shall enjoy their purchased possession, they
being engraven upon the palms of His hands, and their names having been written in the book of
life from all eternity."

For me, what I underlined is God causing his elect to persevere.

That's a long sentence. I rivals som of Paul's longest sentences.

 

[Jon777]

There seems to be a strange idea that a study of systematic theology, or a consistent arrangement of Bible doctrine in a confession of faith, is somehow averse to loving God and loving our neighbor as we love ourselves.

All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, so that the person of God may be proficient, equipped for every good work. (2Ti 3:16-17 NRSVue)
proficient - able to do something to a higher than average standard : skilled

These Jews were more receptive than those in Thessalonica, for they welcomed the message very eagerly and examined the scriptures every day to see whether these things were so. (Act 17:11 NRSVue)
examine - to inquire into carefully : investigate

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly; teach and admonish one another in all wisdom; and with gratitude in your hearts sing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs to God. (Col 3:16 NRSVue)
wisdom - a: ability to discern inner qualities and relationships : insight b: good sense : judgment
d: accumulated philosophical [theological] or scientific learning : knowledge

For whatever was written in former days was written for our instruction, so that by steadfastness and by the encouragement of the scriptures we might have hope. (Rom 15:4 NRSVue)
instruction – 2. the process or act of imparting knowledge; teaching; education

We must no longer be children, tossed to and fro and blown about by every wind of doctrine by people’s trickery, by their craftiness in deceitful scheming; but speaking the truth in love, we must grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by every ligament with which it is equipped, as each part is working properly, promotes the body’s growth in building itself up in love. (Eph 4:14-16 NRSVue)

Love is not some squishy sentimentalism with no definite meaning.

Owe no one anything, except to love one another, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery; you shall not murder; you shall not steal; you shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore, love is the fulfilling of the law. (Rom 13:8-10 NRSVue)

 

[Jon777]

I am distressed that for many Christianity is a test of what theological concepts you hold instead of who holds your daily life. It is possible that we have churchified the original concept of Christianity. It was originally called, "The Way" not the belief. Christ was witnessed by the living breathing life of Christians who had to come to grips with the fact that to love God we must also love each other. "The Way" became descriptive of early Christians that was so visible that Christians all seemed to be going a common way in life. It was not about a common "theology." It was about a life delivering witness of the love of God through Jesus our Christ to the love of our neighbors. We must first love those furthest away from God to distinguish us from the theologic salesman of their times and ours.

A person's "way" or way of life is determined by what they believe. That is the basis for what in psychology is labeled the 'Rational-Emotive Behavioral Therapy".

 

[GWH]

Do you draw a difference between 'once saved always saved', and the 'perseverance of the saints'? Do you agree or disagree with the following?

"All those that have this precious faith wrought in them by the Spirit, can never finally nor totally
fall away; seeing the gifts of God are without repentance; so that He still begets and nourisheth
in them faith, repentance, love, joy, hope, and all the graces of the Spirit unto immortality; and
though many storms and floods arise, and beat against them, yet they shall never be able to take
them off that foundation and rock, which by faith they are fastened upon; not withstanding,
through unbelief, and the temptations of Satan, the sensible sight of this light and love, be
clouded and overwhelmed for a time; yet God is still the same, and they shall be sure to be kept
by the power of God unto salvation, where they shall enjoy their purchased possession, they
being engraven upon the palms of His hands, and their names having been written in the book of
life from all eternity."

For me, what I underlined is God causing his elect to persevere.

If God causes perseverance, then there is no need to command it.
Right logic draws a line that correctly divides GW.

 

[biblestudent78]

Here is one of several passages from Scripture that answers the two-part question you asked...

13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you. (Jn 16:13–15).​

Notice that verse 15 itentifies the "how" (He declares it to us) and the "what" (all things that that the Father and the Son have). The Holy Spirit is "the Spirit of truth" and He guides us "into all truth" (vs 13). There really are no limits to what He teaches us. And we can only learn things from Him when we hear and trust and receive what He says.

There are about 4,000 types of competing Christian Churches each with a unique understanding of the "truth." How does one know which one(s) are guided by the Holy Spirit?

 

[biblestudent78]

A person's "way" or way of life is determined by what they believe. That is the basis for what in psychology is labeled the 'Rational-Emotive Behavioral Therapy".

While a generic categorical definition that a person's way of life is determined by what they believe, life itself says otherwise. We frequently conduct our lives in greater or lesser conflict with what we "believe." Perhaps that is because what we claim to believe and what our lives demonstrate are often diametrically opposed to what we claim to believe.

Nominal Christians: Those who do not actively engage with their faith have divorce rates that are comparable to, or even 20% higher than, the general population.

Active Christians: Those who regularly attend church have significantly lower divorce rates, with some studies suggesting they are 35% to 50% less likely to divorce. 38% of those who attend church regularly have been divorced, compared to 60% for those who rarely attend. Each category claims to have the same "beliefs," so the idea that our lives demonstrate what we "believe" does not hold true.

It has been my experience that what we chose to believe theologically is often indistinguishable in our behavior. A friend of mine suggested a challenge that might illustrate what faith really means. He asked this question. If you lined up 1,000 Christians and 1,000 pagans and looked at their phones, check books, stress behaviors, their children, their priorities, entertainment sources, business ethics, language and social pathologies, what is the chance you could reliably pick out the Christians?

He suggested that you might not do well. I asked him why he thought this test would be a failure. He said that humans operate on a subconscious level for almost everything we do in life. All our most important daily behaviors are guided by our subconscious. Thus we all live in a 2-level world, the conscious and the subconscious. Faith that has penetrated to the subconscious level delivers effortless compliance. Faith that is only kept only consciously must be "refreshed" weekly but often leaves our behavior in conflict. Paul alluded to this problem when he said, "I don't do the things I should and do the things I should not," describes our Delima very well. Our subconscious drives how we live and our conscious minds critique our behavior resulting in a continuous awareness of our need for mercy and forgiveness.

 

[GWH]

There are about 4,000 types of competing Christian Churches each with a unique understanding of the "truth." How does one know which one(s) are guided by the Holy Spirit?

By learning GW so that one can see which ones are guided by the NT teachings.

 

[GWH]

While a generic categorical definition that a person's way of life is determined by what they believe, life itself says otherwise. We frequently conduct our lives in greater or lesser conflict with what we "believe." Perhaps that is because what we claim to believe and what our lives demonstrate are often diametrically opposed to what we claim to believe.

Nominal Christians: Those who do not actively engage with their faith have divorce rates that are comparable to, or even 20% higher than, the general population.

Active Christians: Those who regularly attend church have significantly lower divorce rates, with some studies suggesting they are 35% to 50% less likely to divorce. 38% of those who attend church regularly have been divorced, compared to 60% for those who rarely attend. Each category claims to have the same "beliefs," so the idea that our lives demonstrate what we "believe" does not hold true.

It has been my experience that what we chose to believe theologically is often indistinguishable in our behavior. A friend of mine suggested a challenge that might illustrate what faith really means. He asked this question. If you lined up 1,000 Christians and 1,000 pagans and looked at their phones, check books, stress behaviors, their children, their priorities, entertainment sources, business ethics, language and social pathologies, what is the chance you could reliably pick out the Christians?

He suggested that you might not do well. I asked him why he thought this test would be a failure. He said that humans operate on a subconscious level for almost everything we do in life. All our most important daily behaviors are guided by our subconscious. Thus we all live in a 2-level world, the conscious and the subconscious. Faith that has penetrated to the subconscious level delivers effortless compliance. Faith that is only kept only consciously must be "refreshed" weekly but often leaves our behavior in conflict. Paul alluded to this problem when he said, "I don't do the things I should and do the things I should not," describes our Delima very well. Our subconscious drives how we live and our conscious minds critique our behavior resulting in a continuous awareness of our need for mercy and forgiveness.

I am sure that the Christians could be picked out from the non-Christians, because when I was teaching inner city
middle school students I could discern from their behavior which ones had stable Christian homes.

Behavior of atheists may be guided by the sub-conscious and selfish emotion, but the behavior and emotions of Christians
will be guided by conscience and the love of GW/HS.

 

[biblestudent78]

So, learning is how we see God's will? We have been "learning" for over 2,000 yrs and it does not seem to be working as a means of unification. Sincere and dedicated Christians disagree on important aspects of God's will. Those who have devoted their life to understanding God's will find conflict with others of equal dedication and commitment. Is there another way to learn God's will other than by studying the Bible?

 

[biblestudent78]

I am sure that the Christians could be picked out from the non-Christians, because when I was teaching inner city
middle school students I could discern from their behavior which ones had stable Christian homes.

Behavior of atheists may be guided by the sub-conscious and selfish emotion, but the behavior and emotions of Christians
will be guided by conscience and the love of GW/HS.

If you learned to ride a bike on your 8th birthday and never rode again until you were 78, you could easily get on a bike and ride because the subconscious never forgets. If you contention is that Christians are different kinds of humans than the rest of humanity how do you account for their behavior?

Is it your contention that Christians are not guided by selfish emotions?

 

[GWH]

So, learning is how we see God's will? We have been "learning" for over 2,000 yrs and it does not seem to be working as a means of unification. Sincere and dedicated Christians disagree on important aspects of God's will. Those who have devoted their life to understanding God's will find conflict with others of equal dedication and commitment. Is there another way to learn God's will other than by studying the Bible?

Not per Eph. 4:11-17, but each generation has to learn anew.
IMO the main disagreement on CC is between the tulipists and mfwers,
and I have started a thread called Resolving Problematic Interpretations of Scripture
in a new attempt to resolve the conflict. Hope you will help.

 

[Jon777]

I am sure that the Christians could be picked out from the non-Christians, because when I was teaching inner city
middle school students I could discern from their behavior which ones had stable Christian homes.

Behavior of atheists may be guided by the sub-conscious and selfish emotion, but the behavior and emotions of Christians
will be guided by conscience and the love of GW/HS.

The one person I know personally, who showed the "fruit of the Spirit" better than any Christian I've known, happened to come from a Buddhist family, with the value-system of his family. He had experienced being "born from above", but had no Christian teaching other than the simple, plain gospel.