Perhaps you are right that no where is Scripture is it explicitly said that a person receives the Spirit the moment they believe. But what we do know is that as Romans 8:9 says, "now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."
What if you die before water baptism?
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Perhaps you are right that no where is Scripture is it explicitly said that a person receives the Spirit the moment they believe. But what we do know is that as Romans 8:9 says, "now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."
You can check this out and see if I’m wrong. But in the New Testament there were only 2 times that the Holy Spirit was poured out MIRACULOUSLY on anyone. Once in Acts 2on the Jewish disciples (the 12) and again in Acts 10 on the gentiles, Cornelius and his house. Other people got it by the apostles laying their hands on them to give them spiritual gifts, and by being baptized in the name of Jesus.
The Holy Spirit was never given to “SAVE” anyone. It was a “sign”. In Acts 2, it was a sign from God that these men had the power of God and their message was from God. It was necessary for the Jews to believe this so they would listen to them. Also it got their attention.
In Acts 10, it was necessary to prove to the Jews that God “has granted to the gentiles repentance to life.” Acts 11:18
Acts 8 proves it was NOT FOR SALVATION.
VERSR 16-17 says that the Samaritans had received the word if God and had been baptized in the name of Jesus. They had already been saved when Peter and John came to them and gave them the Holy Spirit by laying their hands on them. So they received the Holy Spirit AFTER they were saved. No where in the New Testament does it say that the Holy Spirit ever saved anyone. That was NOT the reason it was given to people.
Also, except in the 2 cases where people got a miraculous “baptism” of the spirit, those who had the spiritual gift of speaking in tongues, could CONTROL that gift. In other words the person had control over their gift. The “spiritual gift “ did not control them—they controlled the gift. Look at 1 Corinthians 14–this is the chapter on “SPIRITUAL GIFTS.”. Read verses 27-28. If someone wanted to speak in a tongue, they were to “take turns”. One at the time. And there was to be an interpreter. In fact, Paul says if there is no interpreter HE IS TO KEEP SILENT!! That is nothing like the way people claim to do it today. I was at a church service a few years ago where a man just suddenly started speaking in tongues (he claimed). As if he had no control over it. It just “came upon “ him. And there was no interpreter so no one got anything out of what he said. It didn’t edify anyone. It didn’t teach anyone anything. Read your Bible, folks.
We all receive the Spirit when we are baptized in the name of Jesus. That is a promise from God. Acts 2:38 We don’t have to have a miraculous baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Also, read Acts 8:14-17. This proves that people were saved BEFORE and WITHOUT the miraculous gift of the spirit. They did not receive it until AFTER they had BELIEVED and were baptized.
I believe a person can still be saved if they were not water baptized in certain conditions if their heart condition is there, and they are not putting it off procrastinating to get it done.
What if a person realizes they need to be water baptized and they are on the way to do it and die.
Or they are too frail to get it done for they cannot be picked up.
Or another condition that is out of their control, and I did not see an incident where anyone baptized themselves.
If it is in their heart but out of their control with a reason then it would seem like they would be saved.
Like the thief on the cross that acknowledged Jesus as Savior when he said Lord remember me when you come in to your kingdom, and Jesus said today you will be with me in paradise.
The thief could not be water baptized for he was on a cross but Jesus said he will be with Him for to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
They were baptized on to John's baptism, and I do not think they were baptized with Jesus' baptism until after Pentecost.
Which those that were baptized on to John's baptism had to be baptized on to Jesus' baptism.
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.
Water baptism is not to show an outward sign that you confess Christ, or to belong to a Church, but it is to identify with Christ's death which if you do that then you will identify with His resurrection.
If you do not think water baptism is for salvation then how do you identify with Christ's resurrection.
That is why Jesus said we must be born of water, and the Spirit.
We have to identify with the death, burial, and resurrection of the man Christ Jesus by confessing our sins, dying out to sins, being water baptized, and receiving the Spirit.
Some people cut out the middle man saying it is a work.
1Th 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father.
2Th 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power.
But faith is a work for all we think and do is a work.
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
The Bible says baptism does now save us so it is part of the salvation plan of God.
It is speaking of water baptism because it identifies it with the flood.
What if a person realizes they need to be water baptized and they are on the way to do it and die.
Or they are too frail to get it done for they cannot be picked up.
Or another condition that is out of their control, and I did not see an incident where anyone baptized themselves.
If it is in their heart but out of their control with a reason then it would seem like they would be saved.
Like the thief on the cross that acknowledged Jesus as Savior when he said Lord remember me when you come in to your kingdom, and Jesus said today you will be with me in paradise.
The thief could not be water baptized for he was on a cross but Jesus said he will be with Him for to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
They were baptized on to John's baptism, and I do not think they were baptized with Jesus' baptism until after Pentecost.
Which those that were baptized on to John's baptism had to be baptized on to Jesus' baptism.
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.
Water baptism is not to show an outward sign that you confess Christ, or to belong to a Church, but it is to identify with Christ's death which if you do that then you will identify with His resurrection.
If you do not think water baptism is for salvation then how do you identify with Christ's resurrection.
That is why Jesus said we must be born of water, and the Spirit.
We have to identify with the death, burial, and resurrection of the man Christ Jesus by confessing our sins, dying out to sins, being water baptized, and receiving the Spirit.
Some people cut out the middle man saying it is a work.
1Th 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father.
2Th 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power.
But faith is a work for all we think and do is a work.
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
The Bible says baptism does now save us so it is part of the salvation plan of God.
It is speaking of water baptism because it identifies it with the flood.
Acts 2:38. And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptised every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." ESV
So what percentage did I get at salvation if I wasn't "filled" at that time? 10%? 50%? 80%?
First off this was many years ago and it changed my life, in a good way. I’m not sure why you feel the reason to YELL when you capitalized “HE IS TO KEEP SILENT!!” ? I’m amazed at persons who feel the need to yell on a forum. There was a reason the Pharisees reacted in ANGER to everything Jesus did. It was because they were old wineskins. Jesus was doing things that they just couldn’t comprehend or accept. So they eventually became ANGERED to the point of a murderous rage. They didn’t care if He was the son of God, they were in charge and they were gonna shut Him down quick.
Yep. It’s different than salvation. Yet this is the most important thing for a Christian. Without it, a Christian will be similar to Peter and all the disciples before they received the Holy Spirit.
past tense: filled; past participle: filled
- 1.
cause (a space or container) to become full or almost full.
"I filled the bottle with water"
The baptism of the Holy Spirit is not separate from salvation for receiving the Spirit is what does save us.
Receiving the Spirit is what it is all about and confessing Jesus as Lord and Savior, and having our sins forgiven is what causes us to receive the Spirit.
Jesus said we must be born of water and the Spirit to be able to enter heaven so the Spirit is needed for salvation.
Luk 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
Peter and the other apostles received the Baptism of Holy Spirit in the upper room but they were not saved before.
Which is why Jesus told Peter when is converted to strengthen his brothers for Peter was not saved yet.
How can we have a spiritual relationship with God, and how can we be Christlike, and now can we be converted if we do not receive the Spirit.
Then receiving the Spirit is salvation for it is about receiving the Spirit to be saved and the forgiveness of sins, and Jesus' blood that washes away those sins allow us to receive the Spirit.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
If we do not have the Spirit then we do not belong to Christ so the Spirit must be for salvation.
Without the Spirit there is no salvation so you cannot be saved prior to receiving the Spirit.
My bad. I’m not sure %s and such.. All I know is that I was changed after I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. And when I spoke the phrases that popped up in my mind it was a like a vehicle that released it. What else can I tell you. I was still saved before. Just my experience.
1. No. You may be surprised who's up in heaven. Baptism does not save, it's a public announcement that declares one is saved.
2. If he confessed Jesus Christ as his personal savior, he's saved, heaven bound.
John 6:44 says the Father draws someone to Jesus (“…No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him:”) Most of us don’t know exactly how it all works, it just does.
You used it in your response.
How does "filled" with the spirit differ from the other mentions of the spirit?
The reason I ask is because suggesting here's some percentage is silly. You either receive the Holy Spirit or you don't.
I used it in my response because that's what they say. My response is there is no difference. Don't be coy.