What if God had written IN STONE?

[posthuman]

Encouraging thanks. I feel like this should always be a central verse to any Sabbath discussion/question and it confuses me a bit that it seems to be forgotten most of the time.

thank you Mii - and hello there; it's few and far between when i see you, it makes me glad when i do

 

[Mii]

thank you Mii - and hello there; it's few and far between when i see you, it makes me glad when i do

Ditto man, it's funny because I feel pretty disconnected sometimes (ships passing in the night etc) but I guess I saw your ship beacon on a random foray on CC and it is nice. Unexpectedly so.



Oh Romans 14:5 for others to make my post a little less vague for those of you who missed that. I can't slog through this whole thread (hurts my eyes) to see if that one came up for certain.

 

[TMS]

so in the context of the scripture where this phrase is found, He is showing that His followers break the sabbath without guilt - not that they are required to keep it per the letter of the Law.

hence your premise @Braweh, destroyed.

Where does Jesus say we are not required to keep it?

The text does not show that they transgressed the law and are guiltless.

Jesus explained the true principle of the sabbath and that the pharisees had lost the meaning of the sabbath in all the added man made laws.

Mat 12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

 

[TMS]

No where does the Bible say "the law is ended" made void, finished.

We should all know that we can not be righteous by keeping the law.

The law will not save us.

Jesus' perfect obedience to the law means that He was without spot and sinless.

We are saved by faith in the righteousness of Jesus. The GIFT that He gives us.

Why did Jesus obey all the law if it isn't required today?
Why do we keep any of the moral law if they are not required today?

Keeping the commandments to be saved is a waste of time. But keeping the law because we love Jesus is a delight.

 

[Braweh]

God didn't tell us to "act like Jesus acted" or to "emulate Him".

Wrong again.

"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."
Matt. 5:48

"... everyone who is perfect shall be as his master."
Luke 6:40

"For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it."
Prov. 2:21

"Follow ... holiness (like God/Jesus), without which no man shall see the Lord."
Heb. 12:14

And how do we be perfect?

"The Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple."
Psalm 19:7

Jesus taught the Law of His Father (10 Commandments) and obeyed them.

We obey them in order to be like Him. And His Spirit helps us to do so.

 

[Braweh]

Which commandment covers a woman who fails to purify herself after childbirth? Which covers bringing the wrong kind of animal for a sacrifice? Which covers a high priest marrying a widow? Which covers living in a house with mildew? Which covers avoiding military service? Which covers weaving a garment with two kinds of thread? Which covers eating pork, camel, or clams? Which covers living in your house during Sukkot?

I would suggest you keep reading past Exodus 20. There are three and a half more books of Law you seem to have missed.

I've read all 66 books of the modern Bible plus all the Apocrypha and the Pseudepigrapha and then some.

But all that's needed for this discussion is Exodus 20 and the Gospels.

Jesus didn't teach all the Jewish nonsense you and others keep throwing up, He berated them for all their Traditions of Men and all Commandments besides the 10 were ended at the Cross just as the Bible tells us.

Jesus only taught and followed the 10.

 

[Dino246]

Wrong again.

"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."
Matt. 5:48

"... everyone who is perfect shall be as his master."
Luke 6:40

"For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it."
Prov. 2:21

"Follow ... holiness (like God/Jesus), without which no man shall see the Lord."
Heb. 12:14

And how do we be perfect?

"The Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple."
Psalm 19:7

Jesus taught the Law of His Father (10 Commandments) and obeyed them.

We obey them in order to be like Him. And His Spirit helps us to do so.

When you need to add to Scripture in order to make your point, you have no point. Your assertion that I am wrong is baseless. We are told to ‘believe in Jesus’; do you agree?

 

[Braweh]

• there is no NT injunction to observe ceremonial sabbath
• the record of 1st century and later church writings is that they did not observe sabbath
• this is strong evidence against your position that the 10 commandments are the basis of Christian faith and that they were "obeyed" as a law for Christian believers
• to show otherwise you will need to demonstrate:
  • the NT teaches all believers to keep the sabbath of the Judaic covenant
  • the church from the earliest time did so and taught it was required
• i am not 'seeking contradiction to the final word' --- i do not agree that the decalogue is the basis of Christianity. previously stated a number of times, no, Jesus Christ is the foundation of our faith, not the 10 commandments. the "final word" IMO is "THE WORD" --- i am trying to show you that your position is incorrect by showing that it contradicts the scripture and the history of the church.

Thanks for the post, post, but since I've asked you so many times now without the slightest response, I will simply defer to these questions from now on.

Did Jesus teach the 10 Commandments?

Did Jesus keep the 10 Commandments?

Did Jesus' followers keep them after the Cross?

I'd appreciate an answer to each of them if you expect anymore answers from me.

In some forums, it is actually against posted rules to ignore a question.

I've asked you these many times now.

 

[Braweh]

"as i have loved you"

He set aside His glory, humbling Himself --- "let this mind also be in you"

Yes, and it says God did that to become obedient (to the 10 Commandments).

As an example to us of how to be obedient and how to live righteously.

 

[Braweh]

that's a crazy statement giving you license to re-write history to make it say whatever you need it to say in order to support whatever you want it to support. it's equivalent to flat-earth idiots dismissing any and all evidence as "ENORMOUS NASA CONSPIRACY WHICH CONTROLS ALL INFORMATION EVERYWHERE"

it's patently false. you're asking me to believe that anything that contradicts your position is de-facto manufactured solely on the basis that it contradicts your position. i'm sorry, but objectively, that's ridiculous.

have a look for just one example at "dialogue with Trypho" written 200 years before Constantine.

it is definitive.

Nope.

I'm simply deferring to what the Bible has recorded and presenting what God's Word teaches.

Simple.

 

[Dino246]

I've read all 66 books of the modern Bible plus all the Apocrypha and the Pseudepigrapha and then some.

But all that's needed for this discussion is Exodus 20 and the Gospels.

Jesus didn't teach all the Jewish nonsense you and others keep throwing up, He berated them for all their Traditions of Men and all Commandments besides the 10 were ended at the Cross just as the Bible tells us.

Jesus only taught and followed the 10.

That’s patently ridiculous. First you claim that the Ten Commandments cover every sin, then when challenged, you sidestep, attempting to limit severely the scope of the Bible and claiming that the rest of the Law is “Jewish nonsense”.

 

[Braweh]

nope.

see Acts 15.

All sincere and honest readers can gladly see Luke 23:54-56 where Jesus' followers certainly did obey the Sabbath Commandment.

Your true colors are beginning to show now, post.

Do you still love me?

 

[Dino246]

In some forums, it is actually against posted rules to ignore a question.

That isn’t a rule here… and good thing because it is a silly rule that opens the door to tyranny by stupidity.

Your questions are framed in order to bait Post into accepting your position. I’m sure he is smart enough to see that.

 

[Braweh]

there is no place in the NT where Christ said "do no work on the sabbath" - in fact His life & teachings utterly contradict this.

Now you're just sinking in the mire I have always found you in, post.

So sad.

Jesus observed every single Sabbath His entire life and Paul, and others, taught at the synagogues every Sabbath and there is zero record of them teaching again the following day. On the contrary, we read in Acts 13 that Paul preached so well on one Sabbath that the entire town showed up the following Sabbath to hear him preach.

If he was preaching a single word on Sundays, this verse would not exist as the town would've shown up the very next day instead of a full week later.

Acts 13:44

 

[Braweh]

That isn’t a rule here… and good thing because it is a silly rule that opens the door to tyranny by stupidity.

Your questions are framed in order to bait Post into accepting your position. I’m sure he is smart enough to see that.

It is a good thing because every one of you are ignoring questions that decimate your positions.

And it's "post". No capital P.

 

[Braweh]

i will never teach against honoring sabbath ceremonially. but i am fully prepared to defend any brother or sister who "considers each day alike" from their accuser.

Well, if God is the accuser, good luck with that.

God and Jesus taught that one day of the week is very special and should be set aside in a very special way.

That day is the Saturday Sabbath and it is one of the 10 Commandments God wrote in stone with His own finger.

It's the only Commandment Christians are taught to hate by the modern pulpit pimps and the peddlers of False Doctrine throughout the churches and discussion forums of the world.

 

[Braweh]

We are told to ‘believe in Jesus’; do you agree?

And in everything He did and taught.

Jesus taught and obeyed the 10 Commandments.

 

[Braweh]

That’s patently ridiculous. First you claim that the Ten Commandments cover every sin, then when challenged, you sidestep, attempting to limit severely the scope of the Bible and claiming that the rest of the Law is “Jewish nonsense”.

Well, Dino ...

... any Commandments that are not in effect today are not sins now, are they?

1 Jn. 3:4 defines sin as the breaking of the 10 Commandments Law.

All that nonsense you keep claiming are sins about Jewish ordinances, etc. are not sins today.

The 10 Commandments are the only Laws that matter to God today and they cover all sin that matters to God today.

 

[Dino246]

Now you're just sinking in the mire I have always found you in, post.

So sad.

Jesus observed every single Sabbath His entire life and Paul, and others, taught at the synagogues every Sabbath and there is zero record of them teaching again the following day. On the contrary, we read in Acts 13 that Paul preached so well on one Sabbath that the entire town showed up the following Sabbath to hear him preach.

If he was preaching a single word on Sundays, this verse would not exist as the town would've shown up the very next day instead of a full week later.

Acts 13:44

You are a overlooking the obvious: Paul preached on the Sabbath because that’s when people gathered and expected to hear someone speak about Scripture.

You haven’t demonstrated that Post’s comment is wrong.

 

[Dino246]

Well, Dino ...

... any Commandments that are not in effect today are not sins now, are they?

1 Jn. 3:4 defines sin as the breaking of the 10 Commandments Law.

All that nonsense you keep claiming are sins about Jewish ordinances, etc. are not sins today.

The 10 Commandments are the only Laws that matter to God today and they cover all sin that matters to God today.

You’re still sidestepping.