What Does It Mean That God Desires All People To Be Saved?
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Ah, Cameron143, the comedic confusion on the theological dance floor – a divine cha-cha where labels twirl, and Calvin might be doing a celestial two-step! In the Calvinist comedy club, let's unravel this theological tango with a touch of humor.
Quoting Calvin with a comedic twist: John Calvin: "Now, Cameron143, before we trip over labels and dance styles, let's remember my words in Institutes, Book 3, Chapter 21, Section 7 – 'We are predestined not because we are worthy but by the sheer mercy of God. It's like a divine dance where God leads, and our labels follow.'"
Calvinist Comedy Club's Shuffle: And if Calvin were to clarify the steps, he might jest, "Labels are like dance partners – they might twirl us for a moment, but the divine choreography remains. In the Calvinist comedy club, we dance to the tune of predestination, not confined by the box step of theological categories."
Navigating the Theological Dance Floor with Wit: Now, Cameron143, let's salsa through this theological ballroom with a touch of humor. In our Calvinist comedy script, we're saying, "Whether you're a tango enthusiast or a salsa aficionado, the dance of predestination is the divine rhythm where God leads and we follow – a theological dance floor where labels cha-cha away."
Proclaiming the Gospel with a Calvinistic Samba: And at the heart of this divine dance, let's remember the Gospel truth – the reason for our theological samba! As Calvin proclaimed, "For God so loved the world, that He predestined a heavenly samba, where believers dance in the grace and mercy of Christ." (Calvin's Gospel Samba Remix, Gospel According to the Divine Dance)
So, Cameron143, whether you're doing the theological tango, salsa, or a dance style yet to be named, let's keep this Calvinistic comedy club rocking! Any more dance moves you'd like to explore on the divine dance floor? #CalvinistComedyClub #GospelClarityDance
Quoting Calvin with a comedic twist: John Calvin: "Now, Cameron143, before we trip over labels and dance styles, let's remember my words in Institutes, Book 3, Chapter 21, Section 7 – 'We are predestined not because we are worthy but by the sheer mercy of God. It's like a divine dance where God leads, and our labels follow.'"
Calvinist Comedy Club's Shuffle: And if Calvin were to clarify the steps, he might jest, "Labels are like dance partners – they might twirl us for a moment, but the divine choreography remains. In the Calvinist comedy club, we dance to the tune of predestination, not confined by the box step of theological categories."
Navigating the Theological Dance Floor with Wit: Now, Cameron143, let's salsa through this theological ballroom with a touch of humor. In our Calvinist comedy script, we're saying, "Whether you're a tango enthusiast or a salsa aficionado, the dance of predestination is the divine rhythm where God leads and we follow – a theological dance floor where labels cha-cha away."
Proclaiming the Gospel with a Calvinistic Samba: And at the heart of this divine dance, let's remember the Gospel truth – the reason for our theological samba! As Calvin proclaimed, "For God so loved the world, that He predestined a heavenly samba, where believers dance in the grace and mercy of Christ." (Calvin's Gospel Samba Remix, Gospel According to the Divine Dance)
So, Cameron143, whether you're doing the theological tango, salsa, or a dance style yet to be named, let's keep this Calvinistic comedy club rocking! Any more dance moves you'd like to explore on the divine dance floor? #CalvinistComedyClub #GospelClarityDance
Just an added insert; I do not believe that the scriptures teach total predestination. I believe that God did predestinate some things, but God gave mankind the free will to choose how he wants to live his life here on earth, and all of mankind, including his elect, choose not to honor God.
That is why God choose some out of mankind (Eph 1:4) and gave them a new heart (Ezk 36:26-27). that he would have a people that would honor and praise him. (Heb 13:15).
That is why God choose some out of mankind (Eph 1:4) and gave them a new heart (Ezk 36:26-27). that he would have a people that would honor and praise him. (Heb 13:15).
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Wow. I've never had a personal troll before. I'm not sure how to proceed. Should I put you on my Christmas card list? Exchange birthday gifts? Is that down the road? Help me out here. This doesn't seem new to you. So what's next? I would like to help you become the best troll you can be. Help guide me and I'm sure you will earn your next troll badge. Win-win.
Hey, good morning, Eli! I figured it must have been when someone said Mary had been asked, and I responded, that was not what Scripture said, as she was informed. Yes, she was willing, but Gabriel did not come to her and say, Hey Mary, God and I were wondering if you would be up for a virgin birth to mother the long-awaited Messiah? Heh. I had wondered if it had been something I said since then, but Mary does not necessarily come up much in our CC discussions, though she had around Christmas; the more I thought about it, the more I thought surely it was when I clarified the issue of the annunciation .
. I think it is important for us (generally speaking) to faithfully convey what is written, so when I saw someone say she was asked, I felt the need to set that record straight .
Coffee? .
. I think it is important for us (generally speaking) to faithfully convey what is written, so when I saw someone say she was asked, I felt the need to set that record straight .Coffee? .
Yes, i totally agree, God did not approach Mary in that manner. She was already a God-fearing young lady at the time and like i said, this is why she was chosen to carry the task planned by God because she was a God-fearing woman, but yet somehow i think her free-will was still there to say "No i'm not worthy" or something along those lines, but since God can see our innermost spirit and thoughts, i don't think she would be able to anyway.This was a discussion that you, CV5 and a few other members were having at the time (2-3 months ago i think) and i agreed with CV5 because i didn't quite understand your point like you are explaining it now.
So now it makes total sense what you are saying and i understand you.
You know, i also mentioned elsewhere that how we get to God is always unique, but once we get there we can't let go and we are blessed with the Holy Spirit.
Your life journey and mine are a bit of opposites as i've mentioned to you on another topic, because i feel like i have been blessed the whole time, and didn't properly thank God from the heart. But i totally understand a lot of the points you make because i see them from the other end of the spectrum.
When i was 15, i got my Bible training from a monk who was a missionary in Albania at the time (around 1995) and he taught for two years, while i was also helping with church duties and helping distribute food to the poor in other cities.
So i was blessed on a spiritual level for having this monk teaching me (who i still keep in touch now via Whatsup) and i was blessed for having a lot of material things too.
The monk is a construction engineer and he finished his degree in France around 1970 so he helped in building a few churches in Albania at the time. So i connected with him also on a technical level since i was fascinated by computers back then, and he explained to me a lot of concepts in a way so i could understand.
He first explained to me the concept of free-will which i expanded later on in my life as i learned more, but i was amazed to see you explain it in the same manner that i would, so God bless you and keep you safe.
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Even if you were right, Jesus designates the message of the need to be born again of the spirit as an earthly matter, not a heavenly matter in his discussion with Nicodemus.
But you are wresting 1 Cor. 2:14 out of it's context to force it to fit into your systematic.
Paul says his preaching of the cross was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, that the Corinthians' faith should not stand in the wisdom of men but in the power of God. 1 Cor. 2:4-5
Then he goes on to say that he does speak wisdom among them that are perfect (i.e. already believers), the wisdom of God in a revealed secret (musterion), which carries us along towards glory, 1 Cor. 2:6-7, and which Colossians calls "Christ in us, the hope of glory" Col. 1:26-29.
Paul says this wisdom/mystery he is now speaking of is "the things which God has prepared for them that are loving Him," v. 9 i.e. Christians. He is ot speaking now of the things that bring one to that state of loving God, i.e. the preached saving message of the cross that reveals God's love for us so that we are moved to love Him back.
Paul says that these things that pertain to what Christ in us makes possible for us to perform, are "the deep things of God", revealed to us by His Spirit. v. 10-11
He says that the reason we who already love God have been given the Spirit is for this very purpose, to be taught these deep things of God that are freely given by God to those who already love God. v. 12-13
It is only in this context that Paul goes on to say that the natural/soulish/psuchikos man, the unbeliever who does not have the spirit of God, cannot receive these deep "things of the spirit" he is now speaking of, because one needs the Spirit within to enable understanding of them. v.14
His point is to motivate a hunger for this deeper understanding by emphasising the privilege we have over the unbeliever in having the mind of Christ in the person of the Holy Spirit to reveal the treasures we have in Christ, whereas to the unbeliever, who has not accepted the message of the humble, self-sacrificial love of the omnipotent Creator for the sake of rebels he is choosing not to impute their own sins to, the principles of kingdom iiving that apply to those who love God, and involve expressing to others the same kind of humble, sacrificial, merciful love are foolishness. We cannot give to others what we have not first received. vv. 15-16
But you are wresting 1 Cor. 2:14 out of it's context to force it to fit into your systematic.
Paul says his preaching of the cross was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, that the Corinthians' faith should not stand in the wisdom of men but in the power of God. 1 Cor. 2:4-5
Then he goes on to say that he does speak wisdom among them that are perfect (i.e. already believers), the wisdom of God in a revealed secret (musterion), which carries us along towards glory, 1 Cor. 2:6-7, and which Colossians calls "Christ in us, the hope of glory" Col. 1:26-29.
Paul says this wisdom/mystery he is now speaking of is "the things which God has prepared for them that are loving Him," v. 9 i.e. Christians. He is ot speaking now of the things that bring one to that state of loving God, i.e. the preached saving message of the cross that reveals God's love for us so that we are moved to love Him back.
Paul says that these things that pertain to what Christ in us makes possible for us to perform, are "the deep things of God", revealed to us by His Spirit. v. 10-11
He says that the reason we who already love God have been given the Spirit is for this very purpose, to be taught these deep things of God that are freely given by God to those who already love God. v. 12-13
It is only in this context that Paul goes on to say that the natural/soulish/psuchikos man, the unbeliever who does not have the spirit of God, cannot receive these deep "things of the spirit" he is now speaking of, because one needs the Spirit within to enable understanding of them. v.14
His point is to motivate a hunger for this deeper understanding by emphasising the privilege we have over the unbeliever in having the mind of Christ in the person of the Holy Spirit to reveal the treasures we have in Christ, whereas to the unbeliever, who has not accepted the message of the humble, self-sacrificial love of the omnipotent Creator for the sake of rebels he is choosing not to impute their own sins to, the principles of kingdom iiving that apply to those who love God, and involve expressing to others the same kind of humble, sacrificial, merciful love are foolishness. We cannot give to others what we have not first received. vv. 15-16
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It is you that is miss-interpreting the scriptures.
When a person is born again they are babes in Christ and sense they are not mature they cannot digest the deeper things of God, like the doctrine of Christ (Isaiah 28:9-10). These babes are born again, of the Spirit, unlike the natural man.
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Selahsays, your question delves into a theological nuance within the concept of predestination. In Calvinistic theology, predestination primarily pertains to matters of salvation. It is the divine choice made by God regarding the eternal destiny of individuals—whether they will be saved or not.
Calvinists, drawing from the teachings of John Calvin, emphasize that God's predestination is rooted in His sovereign will and is not dependent on human merit or actions. The focus is on God's foreknowledge and election for salvation.
Mundane decisions or everyday choices, such as whether to go to the store, generally fall within the realm of human free will and are not typically viewed through the lens of predestination in the Calvinistic understanding.
It's important to note that interpretations of predestination can vary among different Christian traditions, and some may have nuanced views on the extent and scope of predestination.
Calvinists, drawing from the teachings of John Calvin, emphasize that God's predestination is rooted in His sovereign will and is not dependent on human merit or actions. The focus is on God's foreknowledge and election for salvation.
Mundane decisions or everyday choices, such as whether to go to the store, generally fall within the realm of human free will and are not typically viewed through the lens of predestination in the Calvinistic understanding.
It's important to note that interpretations of predestination can vary among different Christian traditions, and some may have nuanced views on the extent and scope of predestination.
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1 Timothy 2
First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, 2 for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. 3 This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time. 7 For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
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Paul was a preacher and apostle of the Gentiles. This letter is to instruct Timothy and Titus as to the importance of presenting the Gospel to them! Faith comes by hearing, and they must be made to understand that God's word applies to (all men), both Jew and Gentile.
The truth of His word will then soften the hearts of his people among the Gentile population and result in them turning to Him in trust!
All, not just the Jew!
First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, 2 for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. 3 This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time. 7 For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
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Paul was a preacher and apostle of the Gentiles. This letter is to instruct Timothy and Titus as to the importance of presenting the Gospel to them! Faith comes by hearing, and they must be made to understand that God's word applies to (all men), both Jew and Gentile.
The truth of His word will then soften the hearts of his people among the Gentile population and result in them turning to Him in trust!
All, not just the Jew!
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