My bad, post #37.There is no #57.
But I would refer you to reading through Rev. 14.
What does, “But the one who endures to the end will be saved” mean?
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I won't comment or add my interpretation either.
I didn't see any language in those verses about a gathering to Christ or a rapture.
It says expressly that some of you will be put to death...
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.19 In your patience possess ye your souls.
With Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
I don't think that is saying to pray that you will be gathered up and raptured away. That is talking about the same as the other verse watch and be ready. We have to be prepared. Only those that endure until the end will be physically saved.
And then again we have Rev. 14 saying Blessed are they that die in the Lord from henceforth...that they may rest from all of their labors.
Whether we live... we live unto the Lord and wether we die.... we die unto the Lord.
What does it mean to escape those things that are going to come on the earth?
I edited my post so you probably didn't see the last part of it.
So here is the part you probably missed:
I don't think that is saying to pray that you will be gathered up and raptured away. That is talking about the same as the other verse watch and be ready. We have to be prepared. Only those that endure until the end will be physically saved.
And then again we have Rev. 14 saying Blessed are they that die in the Lord from henceforth...that they may rest from all of their labors.
Whether we live... we live unto the Lord and whether we die.... we die unto the Lord.
Simply put the only ones who are going to be able to escape physical death and continue to stand and witness for the Lord are those who watch, are ready, and are prepared. These are the only ones who are going to be left standing/alive at the end when Jesus comes back to gather his children.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Matt 24: 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the[c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
Here is the salvation spoken of
Just take Jesus at his word
Here is the salvation spoken of
Just take Jesus at his word
What does, “But the one who endures to the end will be saved” mean?
It means that that the Christian who endures with faith in Jesus and His teachings will be saved. Not all Christians will remain in the faith, many will abandon it during their lives either through trials, suffering, or because they prefer the things that the world has to offer them instead of what Jesus offers.
We were all made in God's image, as His sons and daughters. And one of the greatest gifts we incurred, being made in God's image, is the gift of free will. Each of us can willingly choose to leave Christ at any time we wish. And God will respect our free will if we do leave Him. Remember the parable of the 'Prodigal Son'. When the son left God, God didn't stop him or beg him to stay. Instead God respected the son's free will to leave.
And each of us has the free will to leave Jesus at any time we want. Look around at the Christians today, many have fallen away from Jesus and His teachings. Some give lip service to Jesus but that's all.
Remember the parable of the 'Sower and the Seeds'. Many will joyfully receive the Word of God but will be strangled by the thorns of the world.
Christians won't be spared from trials and suffering during their lives. They won't be spared from the temptations of the world. So, it's of the utmost importance that they persevere in Jesus and His teachings until the end of their lives. Their salvation is at stake. And, for sure, you are free to drop away from Jesus any time you choose. Jesus won't stop you. He never commands us , He only asks us to follow Him.
Jesus didn't want Judas to betray Him and then hang himself on a tree. But Jesus didn't stop him from doing so. Jesus gives us free reign and absolutely respects our free will to accept or reject Him at any time of our lives.
But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
It means that that the Christian who endures with faith in Jesus and His teachings will be saved. Not all Christians will remain in the faith, many will abandon it during their lives either through trials, suffering, or because they prefer the things that the world has to offer them instead of what Jesus offers.
We were all made in God's image, as His sons and daughters. And one of the greatest gifts we incurred, being made in God's image, is the gift of free will. Each of us can willingly choose to leave Christ at any time we wish. And God will respect our free will if we do leave Him. Remember the parable of the 'Prodigal Son'. When the son left God, God didn't stop him or beg him to stay. Instead God respected the son's free will to leave.
And each of us has the free will to leave Jesus at any time we want. Look around at the Christians today, many have fallen away from Jesus and His teachings. Some give lip service to Jesus but that's all.
Remember the parable of the 'Sower and the Seeds'. Many will joyfully receive the Word of God but will be strangled by the thorns of the world.
Christians won't be spared from trials and suffering during their lives. They won't be spared from the temptations of the world. So, it's of the utmost importance that they persevere in Jesus and His teachings until the end of their lives. Their salvation is at stake. And, for sure, you are free to drop away from Jesus any time you choose. Jesus won't stop you. He never commands us , He only asks us to follow Him.
Jesus didn't want Judas to betray Him and then hang himself on a tree. But Jesus didn't stop him from doing so. Jesus gives us free reign and absolutely respects our free will to accept or reject Him at any time of our lives.
But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
S
SaltwaterGirl
Guest
Greetings! 
Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"
Grace is the source, and faith is the means by which we obtain the grace of God. It is through our faith that we believe. Faith is the action that causes us to do what we do, and comes by our acting on our belief. That action we take, because of our belief, is sustained by our confidence in God, that when we do what we are asked to do, He will fulfill His promises to us.
Now let’s start with Matthew 24:11 and get some context for verse 13.
Many false prophets (preachers, teachers) shall arise and deceive many by teaching the traditions of men instead of God's Word and thus causing our people to become deceived... which is to go astray from His Word, to be drawn away from the truth of God's Word, and thus be spiritually seduced by the false messiah.
Iniquity is lawlessness which is a violation of the laws of God caused by following the traditions of men which even seem so right in the eyes of man, but the end thereof are the ways of death (Prov. 14:12).
Okay, so at the beginning of this chapter when the disciples asked Christ concerning the "end of the age,” the word "end" is "telos" in Greek. The end of this (flesh) age is not when Satan as the false messiah comes at the sound of the 6th Trump, but rather when Jesus Christ the true Messiah comes at the sound of the 7th Trump. Note: It is not the first woman taken in the field who is saved for she is seduced by the false-christ (as in wed to the false bridegroom), the first supernatural entity to appear as Messiah. No, it is rather he or she who "endures" throughout the tribulation of Satan, the spurious messiah, and remains true and steadfast in overcoming the beast that shall be saved.
"Tarry behind!" Yes, it is written that he who is "Left Behind" and remains as a chaste virgin (2 Cor. 11:2) unto the coming of the Lord that shall be saved. So BEWARE! Many false prophets shall rise (and many already have) and shall deceive many, the majority of Christians, into accepting the first messiah who comes to this earth... the one who shall deceive the whole world with his signs and great wonders into believing he is God. Again, don't let some foolish man or some book or movie deceive you unless you want to join them in their ignorance of God's Word.
Understand that the Lord cannot return at "any moment" because the next two verses tell us what yet must happen before the end (telos) comes, before Jesus Christ returns and destroys the stones of the temple and saints of the most high take the kingdom for ever and ever.
This happens when some of God's elect, those certain ones chosen before the foundation of this earth age who have a destiny to fulfill (Eph. 1:4), are delivered up to give His witness and testimony before the kings and rulers of all nations.
Mark 13:10-12
10 And the gospel must first be preached to all the nations. 11 But when they arrest you and deliver you up, do not worry beforehand, [a]or premeditate what you will speak. But whatever is given you in that hour, speak that; for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit. 12 Now brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death.
. . .
Folks, we have a job to do, and God is expecting us to do i! Let’s not let Him down. Let’s keep our gospel armor strapped on tight until the very end until our Messiah comes in all His glory!
Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"
Grace is the source, and faith is the means by which we obtain the grace of God. It is through our faith that we believe. Faith is the action that causes us to do what we do, and comes by our acting on our belief. That action we take, because of our belief, is sustained by our confidence in God, that when we do what we are asked to do, He will fulfill His promises to us.
Now let’s start with Matthew 24:11 and get some context for verse 13.
[11] And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Many false prophets (preachers, teachers) shall arise and deceive many by teaching the traditions of men instead of God's Word and thus causing our people to become deceived... which is to go astray from His Word, to be drawn away from the truth of God's Word, and thus be spiritually seduced by the false messiah.
deceive, planao, plan-ah'-o, Greek 4105; from Greek 4106 (plane); to (properly cause to) roam (from safety, truth, or virtue) :- go astray, deceive, err, seduce, wander, be out of the way.
[12] And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Iniquity is lawlessness which is a violation of the laws of God caused by following the traditions of men which even seem so right in the eyes of man, but the end thereof are the ways of death (Prov. 14:12).
[13] But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Okay, so at the beginning of this chapter when the disciples asked Christ concerning the "end of the age,” the word "end" is "telos" in Greek. The end of this (flesh) age is not when Satan as the false messiah comes at the sound of the 6th Trump, but rather when Jesus Christ the true Messiah comes at the sound of the 7th Trump. Note: It is not the first woman taken in the field who is saved for she is seduced by the false-christ (as in wed to the false bridegroom), the first supernatural entity to appear as Messiah. No, it is rather he or she who "endures" throughout the tribulation of Satan, the spurious messiah, and remains true and steadfast in overcoming the beast that shall be saved.
endure, hupomeno, hoop-om-en'-o, Greek 5278; from Greek 5259 (hupo) and Greek 3306 (meno); to stay under (behind), i.e. remain; figurative to undergo, i.e. bear (trials), have fortitude, persevere :- abide, endure, (take) patient (-ly), suffer, tarry behind.
"Tarry behind!" Yes, it is written that he who is "Left Behind" and remains as a chaste virgin (2 Cor. 11:2) unto the coming of the Lord that shall be saved. So BEWARE! Many false prophets shall rise (and many already have) and shall deceive many, the majority of Christians, into accepting the first messiah who comes to this earth... the one who shall deceive the whole world with his signs and great wonders into believing he is God. Again, don't let some foolish man or some book or movie deceive you unless you want to join them in their ignorance of God's Word.
Understand that the Lord cannot return at "any moment" because the next two verses tell us what yet must happen before the end (telos) comes, before Jesus Christ returns and destroys the stones of the temple and saints of the most high take the kingdom for ever and ever.
Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
This happens when some of God's elect, those certain ones chosen before the foundation of this earth age who have a destiny to fulfill (Eph. 1:4), are delivered up to give His witness and testimony before the kings and rulers of all nations.
Mark 13:10-12
10 And the gospel must first be preached to all the nations. 11 But when they arrest you and deliver you up, do not worry beforehand, [a]or premeditate what you will speak. But whatever is given you in that hour, speak that; for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit. 12 Now brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death.
. . .
Folks, we have a job to do, and God is expecting us to do i! Let’s not let Him down. Let’s keep our gospel armor strapped on tight until the very end until our Messiah comes in all His glory!
You believe God's church will suffer God's wrath. What a shame. But it isn't scripture.
I don't think the tribulation is God's wrath.
Revelation 12:12 KJV
Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
"as a man thinker so he is " if we put over - much importance when reading the Bible -- in what is in our minds and beliefs -- onto things written in the Bible that are not what is meant -- then we could be reading the Bible very wrong -- according to our own beliefs -- not according to the spirit (the true and /or truest meaning). and God is spirit. and people believe the Bible is -- from God. this is real simple math.
something like this: God (Spirit) -- Author of Bible (believed by Christians generally) = meaning of the Bible is according to the Author -- God /Spirit -- not according to Us.
meaning is not according to -- our hearts, minds, beliefs ("as a man thinketh so he is") always or of necessity (because our hearts and minds are not perfect so cannot declare the meaning, on anything spiritual -- unless we are seeking after spiritual things -- i.e. seeking truth, righteousness, honorableness, standards of right living and thinking and being -- though there are levels of understanding the Bible talks about -- so that we can -- even begin to understand.
we should not stay on milk though, or herbs even -- or in any kind of idol worship too much or too long (making our own selves and beliefs into idols we 'pray' to and hold out to others over and over as though to say -- worship this) -- because of believing in our own heart or mind -- our beliefs too much without seeking really, truly, honestly and continuing to seek over all possible errors in our thinking - - - - - - truth (Christ, "I am ___ ___, the truth, and ___ ___ ).
this is how to find God (Spirit) and the (correct) understandings of all things said or written or thought or known by God (Spirit).
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
One thing we all must remember, If we ok at the OT. God used others to carry out his wrath.
He uses weather, Nations, and yes, I dare say, He will use satan
Yes, our Salvation and Faith are free irrevocable gifts of God. Amen.Greetings!
Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"
Grace is the source, and faith is the means by which we obtain the grace of God. It is through our faith that we believe. Faith is the action that causes us to do what we do, and comes by our acting on our belief. That action we take, because of our belief, is sustained by our confidence in God, that when we do what we are asked to do, He will fulfill His promises to us.
Now let’s start with Matthew 24:11 and get some context for verse 13.
[11] And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Many false prophets (preachers, teachers) shall arise and deceive many by teaching the traditions of men instead of God's Word and thus causing our people to become deceived... which is to go astray from His Word, to be drawn away from the truth of God's Word, and thus be spiritually seduced by the false messiah.
deceive, planao, plan-ah'-o, Greek 4105; from Greek 4106 (plane); to (properly cause to) roam (from safety, truth, or virtue) :- go astray, deceive, err, seduce, wander, be out of the way.
[12] And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Iniquity is lawlessness which is a violation of the laws of God caused by following the traditions of men which even seem so right in the eyes of man, but the end thereof are the ways of death (Prov. 14:12).
[13] But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Okay, so at the beginning of this chapter when the disciples asked Christ concerning the "end of the age,” the word "end" is "telos" in Greek. The end of this (flesh) age is not when Satan as the false messiah comes at the sound of the 6th Trump, but rather when Jesus Christ the true Messiah comes at the sound of the 7th Trump. Note: It is not the first woman taken in the field who is saved for she is seduced by the false-christ (as in wed to the false bridegroom), the first supernatural entity to appear as Messiah. No, it is rather he or she who "endures" throughout the tribulation of Satan, the spurious messiah, and remains true and steadfast in overcoming the beast that shall be saved.
endure, hupomeno, hoop-om-en'-o, Greek 5278; from Greek 5259 (hupo) and Greek 3306 (meno); to stay under (behind), i.e. remain; figurative to undergo, i.e. bear (trials), have fortitude, persevere :- abide, endure, (take) patient (-ly), suffer, tarry behind.
"Tarry behind!" Yes, it is written that he who is "Left Behind" and remains as a chaste virgin (2 Cor. 11:2) unto the coming of the Lord that shall be saved. So BEWARE! Many false prophets shall rise (and many already have) and shall deceive many, the majority of Christians, into accepting the first messiah who comes to this earth... the one who shall deceive the whole world with his signs and great wonders into believing he is God. Again, don't let some foolish man or some book or movie deceive you unless you want to join them in their ignorance of God's Word.
Understand that the Lord cannot return at "any moment" because the next two verses tell us what yet must happen before the end (telos) comes, before Jesus Christ returns and destroys the stones of the temple and saints of the most high take the kingdom for ever and ever.
Matthew 24:14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
This happens when some of God's elect, those certain ones chosen before the foundation of this earth age who have a destiny to fulfill (Eph. 1:4), are delivered up to give His witness and testimony before the kings and rulers of all nations.
Mark 13:10-12
10 And the gospel must first be preached to all the nations. 11 But when they arrest you and deliver you up, do not worry beforehand, [a]or premeditate what you will speak. But whatever is given you in that hour, speak that; for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit. 12 Now brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death.
. . .
Folks, we have a job to do, and God is expecting us to do i! Let’s not let Him down. Let’s keep our gospel armor strapped on tight until the very end until our Messiah comes in all His glory! View attachment 231621
Matthew24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days:
‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven,c and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.d 31And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
If The Church, God's Elect, suffer the Great Tribulation as some believe, our King would not tell us His angel's will gather us to him after the Tribulation and from the four winds and from one end of Heaven to the other.
It would say instead, one end of earth to the other. But it doesn't.
The Christian, should they die tomorrow, are Sealed and Saved.
Come the Tribulation we shall not suffer the wrath God has planned for a fallen, condemned, rebellious world.
We endure in this life its slings and arrows. Some denominations are breaking under the pressure and are turning to the ways of the world , giving concession, to sin while abandoning scripture. They could never have believed when they are now so weak.
God's wrath has come upon the world before. Sodom and Gomorrah, a localized example, not world wide. One of many in that respect.
And globally of course, with the deluge. Drowning all life but those whom he predestined for salvation. As with Sodom and Gomorrah. All perished but those whom he chose to save.
The Great Tribulation at the end of history is suppose to be different? God saved his chosen from his wrath before, but not this time?
Ephesians 1:4 God chose us to be holy and blameless before him. That is not a description of those who go through the GT.
In Matthew 25 Jesus tells us we will inherit the kingdom prepared for us from the foundation of the world.
7) No mention of the church during the great tribulation in Revelation 4-22
There is no mention of the church in the prophetic description of the great tribulation period. The church is mentioned 16 times in chapters 1-3. But, it is not mentioned once in chapters 4-22 from the great tribulation through the battle of Armageddon and the 1000-year reign of Christ on Earth.
After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.” (Revelation 4:1)
1 John 2:26-27
I am writing these things to warn you about those who want to lead you astray. But you have received the Holy Spirit, and he lives within you, so you don’t need anyone to teach you what is true. For the Spirit teaches you everything you need to know, and what he teaches is true—it is not a lie. So just as he has taught you, remain in fellowship with Christ.
Those who believe the church will suffer God's wrath but need to post a Revelation passage that says so.
Romans 5:8- BSB) But God proves His love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9.Therefore, since we have now been justified by His blood, how much more shall we be saved from wrath through Him!10.For if, when we were enemies of God, we were reconciled to Him through the death of His Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through His life!
Let's add another avenue of discussion if you will.
The 7. The 7 seals,bowls, vials.
Have any of the Seals been open yet do you think? If so, please link what contemporary event(s) you believe coincide with that seal.
Another thing, we can see from OT is that when God is unleashing his wrath. He doesn't always wait until all of his people are out of the way.
Look at what went on between Pharaoh and God. God unleashed several plagues upon Pharaoh. He didn't just rapture his children out during that time...They continued in the land of Egypt until God was finished with Pharaoh and then God led them out.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
He will keep from the hour of temptation by catching me up to be with Him.
NOPE - will never happen - that is adding to God's words -
whoever can find just one scripture thats says exactly that and i will give $1,000 as a reward - GUARANTEED
Interesting. However, if we read further in that chapter we learn of the great dragon being cast down, pursuing the woman who gave birth to the child.
Traditionally, it is thought those passages in Revelation refer to Lucifer being cast from Heaven down to earth. Made Lord of this world where he wreaks havoc against God's people, and particularly those who are blessed by the child.
Lucifer's, Satan's, wrath is ongoing, is it not?
Revelation 6 on the other hand tells of the 6th seal. And God's wrath having already begun.
Remember too, the
Great Tribulation is the last half of Daniel’s 70th Week prophecy. Those weeks are when the Bowl Judgements are poured out upon earth. and is the time during which the Bowl judgments are poured out. So, it could be that the wrath we're discussing isn't that of Satan, but is of God. And Per Daniel's prophecy , God's wrath would be covering just about all of Daniel’s 70th Week. While the Great Tribulation is at the last half.
In Revelation 15:1 (NIV), the last of the bowl judgements conclude God's wrath.
I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues—last, because with them God’s wrath is completed.
The seventh bowl is poured out in Revelation 16.
This is before the second coming.
Given all that, before the second coming, the church is rescued from those events.
1 Thessalonians 1:10 and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.
Just like satan to add to God's words and now mine - shame on you - READ my Post #22
i want everyone on this forum to bear witness to this:
The Bride of Christ/His Elect/the Saints are not appointed to God's wrath, which is the wrath of the Lamb - Rev 6:16
There is no wrath from God upon His Elect/ the Saints/the Bride of Christ/His Overcomers/His Brethren/the Church
From my Post #22 = Praise God - His Elect are not appointed to wrath - AMEN 1 Thessalonians 5: 9-11
That's true. Almost all of God's plagues would have impacted God's people. The blood in the Nile,etc...All save for God's death angel killing the first born, the oldest, or the first offspring still in the womb, human and animal.
Except for God's people.
They were spared by painting the blood of a lamb on their door frame.
Saved from death by the blood of the lamb.