What Controls Our Human Free Will?
- Thread starter Solitude
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ah ok, well why ?
Are we on the playing game of a gotcha moment in your eyes ?
If not what game am I playing you've stated or hinted there was other sins in the garden then you've said I'm refering something else again,
Am I not allowed to have ideas outside of yours or something ?
So are you going to address your distinction or not ?
I mean your the one who mentioned it in the first place.
So what other sins where commited in the garden then
So just to be clear do you think Gods will needs to think
Wasn't his will declared from the beginning ?
Is there any chance you can now start to see the difference between your own will and Gods will.
Your will changes Gods doesn't
yeah …this isn’t my idea at all
“your idea God is saving people because they have knowledge of Good and evil is a compassionate idea.”
I haven’t said anything like that . God sent a savior of all mankind because he loves mankind who he created .
the reason they need to be saved is because they rejected Gods warning and partook of knowledge that was not meant for thier minds and hearts the knowledge of good and evil .
It’s clear by the original commandment after they are created and called very good he puts them into Eden to dress and keep it then commands him truthfully
“And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.””
Genesis 2:16-17 NIV
All Adam and his wife have to do to dwell on Eden with God and eat from the tree of life is accept and believe what he’s been told by his creator (who’s only blessed them and given them dominion over earth at this point )and operate based only on what God told them which is faith and walking by faith man’s original condition that they fell from when the enemy whispered about the knowledge of good and evil here look what he’s intending to get them to do
““You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like gods, knowing good and evil.””
Genesis 3:4-5 NIV
the lie is that they won’t die like God told them , the deception is the notion that they are supposed to be as gods and know good and evil for themselves. God knew if we have good and evil within us we couldn’t handle it we aren’t made for it that’s why he forbid it
man is made for what God tells him “ you are free to eat of any tree but don’t eat this particular fruit you’ll die “
That word would have kept them from eating the fruit because there’s a fear created in them concerning the fruit it’s a barrier if we believe it’s poison we won’t ever eat it .
So the enemy had to change tbier thinking about the fruit that it’s deadly for them . “ you aren’t going to die , God knows and just doesn’t want you to be as gods and know good and evil “
Before that her thinking about the fruit was this based only on Gods word about it
“The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ””
Genesis 3:2-3 NIV
So she’s afraid of it she understands “ we are not to partake of that fruit tree or it’s fruit we’ll die for certain “
After the enemy beguiled and redirects her thinking about it “ you will not die , God knows you’ll become as gods and gain knowledge “
So he’s telling them God is misleading them they aren’t going to die like God said but they’ll become wiser and know good and evil as gods . And then thier thinking changed about the fruit to this
“When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food ( god said it was deadly to eat ) and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, ( god didn’t say this to them ) she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.
( the consequences are written down and we can see “ man’s fall “ from grace and faith )
Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden.
…… Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?”
The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.” Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?” The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.
” So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, “Cursed are you above all livestock and all wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life.
To the woman he said, “I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.”
To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’ “Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life.
….And the Lord God said, “The man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”
So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ( cursed )ground from which he had been taken. After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.”
Genesis 3:6, 8, 11-14, 16-17, 22-24
knowing good and evil is mankind’s “ fallen state” it leads to temptation and sin which results in death as we’ve been warned since the early days of mankind
good and evil exist in the world through mankind war and death and destruction , healing and helping and loving also through mankind we aren’t puppets without any choice or pawns without any Will if we believe that we should really dig deep and find a Will to do good and live because we believe what God has always said about it
We need the truth so we can find godly fear of the forbidden that humans disregard so readily for pleasures of the flesh
“ sure it’s sin but everyone sins we have no choice and won’t be held accountable as if we did “ Jesus died for my sins so it doesn’t matter whether I do good or evil now I’m saved “ we invent so many reasons to not repent because we reject the things he’s said about good and evil and judgement and mankind
Its all good sir, you have your beliefs and just like everyone else it's good that you can express them.
Some people have a real hard time expressing there beliefs, it mainly down to people being scared to I think, for many reasons
Mans fallen state is because innocence was lost in there nature. It's really something that needs to be restored more than irradiating the knowledge of evil, as evil is reflection of Good, it's always going to exist until the day comes and the lord walks amongst his people again on earth in physical presence.
The lord created us in a likeness to his image, it doesn't necessarily mean one thing only like he created us to be exactly like him. it could do but yeah I can't see it, I believe he created us with an image that we could obey him. So there was always something evil before hand in his image about us, even know he saw it was was good, he knew the image was good enough to obey God,.but sadly we never, so he knew before hand we would vomit evil.
What I see is the lord has an image in his mind of how he wanted to creat us, and he created in that likeness to that image.
but theres point in keeping on going to the past and talking about Adam really, because God sees that all man is capable of the same act.
That all of mans will is not worthy.
People are just to quick to condemn what they would of done themselves
Anyway there's no point in roping up the past, it can do a lot of harm, the subject is about who controls human will, it's a good question really.
What do you believe about the question m.
Yea you’re welcome to your opinions and thoughts also . You just never address anything I actually say and show in scripture then you say a bunch of other things and I try to go back to what I had said and asked lol so we’re just going in circles. I’m sure it’s both of us but I am too old to waste my time and someone else’s . So respectfully I don’t think we’re gonna get anywhere this time …. Hope to find some agreement elsewhere
Theres one thing having an opinion but there's no need to be rude about it. That's a sign of bitter old age,
I shared many scriptures with you, and why you can see that I addressed a lot of what you wrote I don't know,, it looks like you never liked the answers m.
Generally when people say they will only talk to you to find agreement it generally means there highly ignorant, but for you to be like that in your old ages it more than likely means your bitter and sour.
You don't have any right to judge me, your high level of ignorance is plain to see. So respectfully sir as Jesus said why do you look for the plank in your brother's eye when you have a huge one in your own eye ?
I'll share how I see the lords creation of mankind @Pilgrimshope
I see that the lord wanted to create a garden on earth but he created life to be sustainable in a physical fleshly presence to, as well as wanting us to be spiritual and appreciative of the spiritual matters
I believe That the lords image he had of us is he wanted us to be good gardeners of his garden in both spiritual matters valuing his spiritual life but also his earthly life.
So much so that he created man to be stewards of his garden.
But however since he had to create us is an earthly substance to, to which I can only describe as he wanted us to be stewards and keepers of all is other lovely earthly creations, such as plant life birds bees animals.
He had to create us the way he did.
He didn't have to, of course he could of created us to be spiritual only.
So for that reason there was always going to be a struggle for us to become fully appreciative of his spiritual ways m
I see that the lord wanted to create a garden on earth but he created life to be sustainable in a physical fleshly presence to, as well as wanting us to be spiritual and appreciative of the spiritual matters
I believe That the lords image he had of us is he wanted us to be good gardeners of his garden in both spiritual matters valuing his spiritual life but also his earthly life.
So much so that he created man to be stewards of his garden.
But however since he had to create us is an earthly substance to, to which I can only describe as he wanted us to be stewards and keepers of all is other lovely earthly creations, such as plant life birds bees animals.
He had to create us the way he did.
He didn't have to, of course he could of created us to be spiritual only.
So for that reason there was always going to be a struggle for us to become fully appreciative of his spiritual ways m