What Changed?

[PaulThomson]

PaulThomson said:
Are you saying you have refused water baptism?

Are you just a troll? Where do you get in anything I said I was never water baptised?

It was a question for clarification.

You wrote -
"You just made my point for me

i was baptized into the death and burial of Christ, by god himself

no water could do that, its a symbol of the one true baptism that saves.

thats the one baptism, the one that saves. Non of the rest of them save us,"


I presume your answer then is "No."

 

[PaulThomson]

Jesus is quoted multiple times telling us about the Spirit of Truth revealing things to us that can only be known by the Spirit. Paul affirms this many times also. This is part of what you and your cronies keep denying. I can only assume such verses do not apply to you:

Seeing and hearing is not knowing something because the Holy Spirit drops the knowledge into you without any objective verification. Seeing and hearing are objective.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

PaulThomson said:
Are you saying you have refused water baptism?



It was a question for clarification.

You wrote -
"You just made my point for me

i was baptized into the death and burial of Christ, by god himself

no water could do that, its a symbol of the one true baptism that saves.

thats the one baptism, the one that saves. Non of the rest of them save us,"


I presume your answer then is "No."

Your just a troll

Nothing in what I posted and nothing in what you quoted said a thing about me NOT being water baptized.

What I said is a statement of fact. Non of the other baptisms (and there are many) save us

It does not mean I disobeyed God and did not do what he commanded.

 

[Rufus]

To mature as a person one does not just invent more and more truth claims and propositions about reality. At a certain stage of life a person has to realise that understanding reality is not just certainty about truth clams and propositions, but is more about relationships, and the healthiest view of reality is one that does not hold on to propositions and truth claims that are unnecessarily producing rifts in relationships.

This means that the truth claims and propositions we have collected over time need to be re-evaluated and the faulty ones, the ones that lack real proof but are divisive, must be culled; and our focus shifts from acquiring and defending propositions to our embracing uncertainty where there is genuine uncertainty and building genuinely truthful relationships with things, people and God. It leads to admitting other opinions and options may have some merit; that other perspectives may have some merit; that knowing how to behave like Christ is more important than knowing theological systems that claim to describe Christ, and that experiencing godly relationships with God and people is more important than merely gathering information about God and people.

Many here think they have things figured out propositionally and that that qualifies them to arbitrate on what is and is not true Christianity. They are like teenagers who have passed out of high school and think they know enough to counsel couples on healthy marriage and child-rearing; to counsel politicians on national policy direction; and the elderly on what getting old is all about. We need to develop the epistemic humility to honestly admit the limits of our knowledge and is willing to critically checks the foundations of our own worldview and sets that in order, before we presume to impose those on others, which disrespects the other person and divides over words and phrases that have no actual correspondence to anything real.

On the other hand it is written about horizontal relationships:

Matt 10:34-36
34 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace , but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

"'a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.'
NIV

The Gospel, through no fault of its own, divides people!

1 Cor 1:22-23
22 Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,
NIV

The Gospel is like the Law. There is nothing wrong with either of these. What's wrong are sinful men's perceptions and corrupt and finite reasoning powers which leads them to all manner of illogical and, therefore, faulty conclusions.

The Christians main concern in life is to glorify God in all he does, including being faithful to the TRUTH AND defending it. We live in a fallen world that is literally overflowing with lies. For us to be lights in this dark world we must shine our beacons on the truth always. God's Word is Truth. Sanctification if by the Truth. Jesus said he is Truth. To not remain steadfast and true to the Truth is to actually abandon Christ! First and foremost we must cultivate and preserve our vertical relationship with our Creator and Redeemer. By our faithfulness to Him, He will work out our horizontal relationships.

 

[Magenta]

Seeing and hearing is not knowing something because the Holy Spirit drops the knowledge into you without any objective verification. Seeing and hearing are objective.

You are not saying anything Biblical, and in fact, if you are trying to make sense, you are failing miserably.
What is this "dropping knowledge into you"??? Do you really not understand that it is God Who reveals Himself?
It is a Biblical promise. Again it is obvious you have not experienced such for it is 100% a subjective personal experience.

 

[Magenta]

Jeremiah 29:13-14a You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. I will be found by you, declares the LORD.

 

[Magenta]

From Acts 17:26-28

Acts 17:26-27 ~ From one man He made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and He determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their lands. God intended that they would seek Him and perhaps reach out for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us.

 

[Magenta]

the healthiest view of reality is one that does not hold on to propositions
and truth claims that are unnecessarily producing rifts in relationships.

You contradict Jesus.

Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me;
anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother and wife and
children and brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be My disciple.

 

[homwardbound]

Closer than a heartbeat

 

[Magenta]

Matthew 7:13 plus Romans 8:13

 

[homwardbound]

To mature as a person one does not just invent more and more truth claims and propositions about reality. At a certain stage of life a person has to realise that understanding reality is not just certainty about truth clams and propositions, but is more about relationships, and the healthiest view of reality is one that does not hold on to propositions and truth claims that are unnecessarily producing rifts in relationships.

This means that the truth claims and propositions we have collected over time need to be re-evaluated and the faulty ones, the ones that lack real proof but are divisive, must be culled; and our focus shifts from acquiring and defending propositions to our embracing uncertainty where there is genuine uncertainty and building genuinely truthful relationships with things, people and God. It leads to admitting other opinions and options may have some merit; that other perspectives may have some merit; that knowing how to behave like Christ is more important than knowing theological systems that claim to describe Christ, and that experiencing godly relationships with God and people is more important than merely gathering information about God and people.

Many here think they have things figured out propositionally and that that qualifies them to arbitrate on what is and is not true Christianity. They are like teenagers who have passed out of high school and think they know enough to counsel couples on healthy marriage and child-rearing; to counsel politicians on national policy direction; and the elderly on what getting old is all about. We need to develop the epistemic humility to honestly admit the limits of our knowledge and is willing to critically checks the foundations of our own worldview and sets that in order, before we presume to impose those on others, which disrespects the other person and divides over words and phrases that have no actual correspondence to anything real.

As one sees that way, another sees different. God knows all in all over it all. Therefore I see Romans 8, a great chapter in assurance from God to me to see and stand in trust to God, not me or anyone else either.
therefore I report of God from within the self snd search out the truth between God and You personally. Find out, God simply loves us all, went to that cross once willingly for us all to get given new life in God's Spirit and Truth, (The Holy Spirit) the same Spirit that led Jesus, here on earth first.
Time for us to turn to God in thanksgiving and praise and ask God for this new life to be installed in us too, if believe You will see, if not you will not, at least that happened to me. Then we see to get along and not refuse or fight, I go to the willing death Christ went to first without any flesh fight back over it. He is risen alive to never die again. Our sins are forgiven by his one time done work for us to be made new in God Father's Spirit and Truth, alive not dead as we were in our first birth, that is a death sentence, unless born again by God from belief to God that does not quit, even if in adversities under Law revealed this to me and does to everyone else too.
Romans 7:10 be dead to the self and everyone else, to be alive to God and see not to fight in flesh and blood nature anymore, thanks

 

[homwardbound]

Matthew 7:13 plus Romans 8:13

Amazing grace is God never giving up on us the people, seeing no one more special than anyone else, that is amazing as John Newton saw it and wrote amazing grace
God is good all the time as good is God all the time as in God is not dead, thanks for your posts

 

[PaulThomson]

PaulThomson said:
the healthiest view of reality is one that does not hold on to propositions
and truth claims that are unnecessarily producing rifts in relationships.

You contradict Jesus.

Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me;
anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother and wife and
children and brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be My disciple.

Do you know what "unnecessarliy" means?

 

[Magenta]

PaulThomson said:
the healthiest view of reality is one that does not hold on to propositions
and truth claims that are unnecessarily producing rifts in relationships.

Do you know what "unnecessarliy" means?

Surely your asking is unnecessary but you do so anyway because you love to cause strife.

 

[PaulThomson]

To mature as a person one does not just invent more and more truth claims and propositions about reality. At a certain stage of life a person has to realise that understanding reality is not just certainty about truth clams and propositions, but is more about relationships, and the healthiest view of reality is one that does not hold on to propositions and truth claims that are unnecessarily producing rifts in relationships.

This means that the truth claims and propositions we have collected over time need to be re-evaluated and the faulty ones, the ones that lack real proof but are divisive, must be culled; and our focus shifts from acquiring and defending propositions to our embracing uncertainty where there is genuine uncertainty and building genuinely truthful relationships with things, people and God. It leads to admitting other opinions and options may have some merit; that other perspectives may have some merit; that knowing how to behave like Christ is more important than knowing theological systems that claim to describe Christ, and that experiencing godly relationships with God and people is more important than merely gathering information about God and people.

Many here think they have things figured out propositionally and that that qualifies them to arbitrate on what is and is not true Christianity. They are like teenagers who have passed out of high school and think they know enough to counsel couples on healthy marriage and child-rearing; to counsel politicians on national policy direction; and the elderly on what getting old is all about. We need to develop the epistemic humility to honestly admit the limits of our knowledge and is willing to critically checks the foundations of our own worldview and sets that in order, before we presume to impose those on others, which disrespects the other person and divides over words and phrases that have no actual correspondence to anything real.

"This last sentence should say,

"We need to develop the epistemic humility to honestly admit the limits of our knowledge and to be willing to critically check the foundations of our own worldview and to set that in order, instead of presuming to impose that unexamined worldview on others, which disrespects the other person and divides us from them over words and phrases that have no actual correspondence to anything real.

 

[PaulThomson]

You are not saying anything Biblical, and in fact, if you are trying to make sense, you are failing miserably.
What is this "dropping knowledge into you"??? Do you really not understand that it is God Who reveals Himself?
It is a Biblical promise. Again it is obvious you have not experienced such for it is 100% a subjective personal experience.

God reveals Himself, in part, objectively through His word. It is not 100% a subjective personal experience. Faith comes by hearing something objective.

 

[PaulThomson]

PaulThomson said:
To mature as a person one does not just invent more and more truth claims and propositions about reality. At a certain stage of life a person has to realise that understanding reality is not just certainty about truth clams and propositions, but is more about relationships, and the healthiest view of reality is one that does not hold on to propositions and truth claims that are unnecessarily producing rifts in relationships.

On the other hand it is written about horizontal relationships:

Matt 10:34-36
34 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace , but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

"'a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.'
NIV

The Gospel, through no fault of its own, divides people!

1 Cor 1:22-23
22 Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,
NIV

The Gospel is like the Law. There is nothing wrong with either of these. What's wrong are sinful men's perceptions and corrupt and finite reasoning powers which leads them to all manner of illogical and, therefore, faulty conclusions.

The Christians main concern in life is to glorify God in all he does, including being faithful to the TRUTH AND defending it. We live in a fallen world that is literally overflowing with lies. For us to be lights in this dark world we must shine our beacons on the truth always. God's Word is Truth. Sanctification if by the Truth. Jesus said he is Truth. To not remain steadfast and true to the Truth is to actually abandon Christ! First and foremost we must cultivate and preserve our vertical relationship with our Creator and Redeemer. By our faithfulness to Him, He will work out our horizontal relationships.

I agree that "The Gospel is like the Law. There is nothing wrong with either of these. What's wrong are sinful men's perceptions and corrupt and finite reasoning powers which leads them to all manner of illogical and, therefore, faulty conclusions."

These "men's perceptions and corrupt and finite reasoning powers which leads them to all manner of illogical and, therefore, faulty conclusions" are what divide "unnecessarily".

 

[HeIsHere]

Ahh! A gnostic gnosis dropped into the understanding of the enlightened ones. But not clearly stated in scripture.

Yes, this is the especially troubling part of the special individual enlightment/special individual enabling gnosis which must occur prior to believing the Gospel, rendering the power and truth inherent in the Gospel message powerless.

Salvation is a complete gift received, but belief in the work of Christ is the first and only condition to receive the gift.

Anyone who states the natural man cannot believe and must be enlightened to believe has more common with Free Masonry (Gnosticism) than Biblical Christianity.

This has nothing to do with free will/determinism but rather a faulty view of the natural man as born incapable of responding to truth applied singularly to the Gospel, not in other areas of life mind you.

 

[Rufus]

Amazing grace is God never giving up on us the people, seeing no one more special than anyone else, that is amazing as John Newton saw it and wrote amazing grace
God is good all the time as good is God all the time as in God is not dead, thanks for your posts

What AMAZES me is that God would choose to save a wretched worm like myself. The only thing I see as very special in God's salvation is His love which motivated His effectual grace towards me.

 

[Rufus]

PaulThomson said:
To mature as a person one does not just invent more and more truth claims and propositions about reality. At a certain stage of life a person has to realise that understanding reality is not just certainty about truth clams and propositions, but is more about relationships, and the healthiest view of reality is one that does not hold on to propositions and truth claims that are unnecessarily producing rifts in relationships.



I agree that "The Gospel is like the Law. There is nothing wrong with either of these. What's wrong are sinful men's perceptions and corrupt and finite reasoning powers which leads them to all manner of illogical and, therefore, faulty conclusions."

These "men's perceptions and corrupt and finite reasoning powers which leads them to all manner of illogical and, therefore, faulty conclusions" are what divide "unnecessarily".[/QUOTE]

No, it is NECESSARY; for God ordained that Tares would grow up alongside the Wheat in his Church. And he also ordained that the devil and his children would hate Him and his Church. The only time things will change is when the saints reach their Ideal States in the visible kingdom.