What are you thoughts on Annihilation?
- Thread starter Radius
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I NEVER said Christians are going to Hell. Another false accusation.
Don't you read your own posts? You said it yourself.
"Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."
After you try to remove:
Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
We're at nearly 1000 posts at this point--half us disagree. The bible says "The wages of sin is death" and I believe it. It isn't what you believe or what you've been taught--the question is what does the Word actually say? What you have quote is the figurative language used in Revelation, but in literal language the end of man is death. 4 Times the angel in Revelation says "the lake of fire IS the second death." Please look through these posts and see the myriad of verses that state this. Also, there's a big problem with the myth of eternal torment. It denies Christ's death paid the FULL penalty for our sin. You are actually saying Christ will be or is currently suffering eternal conscious torment on behalf of all mankind, if THAT is the punishment.
Copied from Magenta's post--there are 100's of other verses that say the wicked perish / are destroyed.
Death does not mean "cease to exist". Stop picking out just the verses that you like. Adam and Eve DIED the day they sinned but they were still alive. Are you calling God a liar?
Genesis 2:16-17 (NKJV)
16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."
By your standard John the Baptist was not very nice either. The guy condemned the Jewish leadership to unquenchable ghenna fire right to their faces. Jesus Messiah did the exact same thing. Deeds and words I would assume you find to be.....distasteful....I know but it's also empowering. I grew up in a church that taught eternal torture too but I'm luck in that I will give up a belief if there is scripture clearly supporting something else as it is in this case. Loyaty to bible only, loose all loyalties to doctrines and denominational teachings but as you just saw, you will be attacked and told you will go to their version of hell for disagreeing. Nice bunch over on that side!
Nevertheless they are in Scriptural and quite impervious to your criticisms.
"Irenaeus said"......BINGO. There's your problem.Your world/worldview is very small.
that the soul is not immortal by nature, but it can become immortal if it lives according to God’s law.
His work is one of the earliest explicit affirmations outside of Scriptures of the final annihilation of the wicked.
There were believers and even influential church fathers (like Irenaeus) who held to conditionalism/annihilation. Methodist writer Leslie Woodson, while defending the view of hell as a place of eternal torment, concedes that “there have always been individuals and small groups who held to the doctrine of annihilation of the wicked and repudiated eternal punishment."
Perhaps also look up John Stott (<= link
Correct! They will DIE. Why did God say they would die--because they sinned--IN the day, not on the day. because they sinned all mankind received this death sentence--only those who trust in Christ will live...for all eternity. There is only ONE gift of eternal life. If you say the sinner still lives then you are saying the sinner also gets eternal life--albeit a painful one. You are in agreement with Satan's first fib "You shall not surely die."
This is such a pathetic argument. How about "eternal death" = eternal separation from God?
Regardless of all the naysayers and the nattering, God does not change and His Word does not change. Eternal Hell is a SOLEMN REALITY and those who try to dismiss it are minions of Satan.
True: the wages of sin is death, affirmed in a multiplicity of ways from beginning to end
of Scripture, BUT, the lie of Satan is being told to this very day: you will not surely die.
For it is a sad fact that the lie at the heart of the fall of man and corruption
of all creation is held as a sacred cow by the majority of Christendom
Picking out verses I like? I used the simplest, shortest, well known literal verse I could think of and as I said there are hundreds of others verses sited on this post. Again 'in" the day NOT 'on' the day--the received they sentence of death at the very moment they sinned. It's not about natural death--it points to the second death and judgment. As an example, a criminal may receive the death sentence, but it may not be carried out for another 40 years.
How is it pathetic? People who believe in eternal conscious torment believe that the person in torment is ALIVE. That would then mean they also receive the gift of eternal life. The bible however is clear--only the believer received eternal life!
Matthew 10:28
28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell
John 3:16
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Romans 2:7
7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Romans 6:23
23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
2 Thessalonians 1:9
9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
Philippians 3:18-19
18(For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
Hebrews 10:26-27
26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Hebrews 10:39
39But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
James 4:12
12There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
2 Peter 3:7
7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
Revelation 20:14-15
14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Psalm 1:16
6For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
Psalm 37:20
20But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
Psalm 92:7
7that though the wicked sprout like grass, and all evildoers flourish, they will be forever destroyed.
Ezekiel 18:20
20The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
lol, try reading what people post. Not one person has said hell isn't eternal. Sheesh!
Also, STOP making accusations that saved Christians are somehow minions of Satan. That's the worst thing anyone has said in the entire thread.
Meanwhile there is not one verse that articulately affirms the immortality of man.
Rather, we have the good news of attaining to life ever after only by
putting on the righteousness of Christ, by grace through faith, in His
shed blood on our behalf, due to His great unending love, that we may
escape the second death, while the naysayers claim, despite the clear
teaching of Scripture, that man is immortal, and they take Scripture literally.
He alone is immortal and dwells in unapproachable light.
2 Peter 3:7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved
for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.
Rather, we have the good news of attaining to life ever after only by
putting on the righteousness of Christ, by grace through faith, in His
shed blood on our behalf, due to His great unending love, that we may
escape the second death, while the naysayers claim, despite the clear
teaching of Scripture, that man is immortal, and they take Scripture literally.
He alone is immortal and dwells in unapproachable light.
2 Peter 3:7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved
for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.
Exactly! Everlasting Punishment is also called Everlasting DESTRUCTION. The opposite of Eternal Life IS Eternal DESTRUCTION. The punishment for sin is DEATH, therefore the punishment of death is ETERNAL--there is no coming back from it.
I thought you agreed that "hell/hades" is cast into the lake of fire at the GWTj, right?
2 Peter 3:7's word ("destruction") is G684 -
[quoting]
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 684 apṓleia (from 622 /apóllymi, "cut off") – destruction, causing someone (something) to be completely severed – cut off (entirely) from what could or should have been. (Note the force of the prefix, apo.) See 622 (apollymi).
684 /apṓleia ("perdition") does not imply "annihilation" (see the meaning of the root-verb, 622 /apóllymi, "cut off") but instead "loss of well-being" rather than being (Vine's Expository Dictionary, 165; cf. Jn 11:50; Ac 5:37; 1 Cor 10:9-10; Jude 11).
-- https://biblehub.com/greek/684.htm
[quoting]
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 684 apṓleia (from 622 /apóllymi, "cut off") – destruction, causing someone (something) to be completely severed – cut off (entirely) from what could or should have been. (Note the force of the prefix, apo.) See 622 (apollymi).
684 /apṓleia ("perdition") does not imply "annihilation" (see the meaning of the root-verb, 622 /apóllymi, "cut off") but instead "loss of well-being" rather than being (Vine's Expository Dictionary, 165; cf. Jn 11:50; Ac 5:37; 1 Cor 10:9-10; Jude 11).
-- https://biblehub.com/greek/684.htm
So tell us again why God resurrects the sinner for judgment, reads the entire record of every sin of his entire life, and then simply executes the person one more time. Despite the fact that the Bible says that this person is going to spend eterity in the lake of fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels. Not to mention where this person is idling between the first and second death. Not to mention that at the first death he really didn't die (the way you define death) he's just in a prison cell awaiting final sentencing.
And if you didn't notice the devil and his angels are themselves eternal. And are being held (at least some of them) in a prison right now, Fully conscious fully aware awaiting their own sentencing. You may have forgotten that the demons that Jesus expelled begged that they not be TORTURED "before the time"....Matt 8:29. Read it.
Annihilationism is an un-biblical heresy. Absolutely no doubt about it.