What are his commandments?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,768
1,063
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
.
371» Heb 12:16-17 . . See to it that that there be no immoral or secular
person like Esau, who sold his own birthright for a single meal. For you know
that even afterwards, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was
rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought for it with
tears.

Webster's defines "secular" as not overtly or specifically religious, viz:
irreverent, which can be roughly defined as having little or no respect for
sacred things.

Esau is a good example of the limits of God's patience. Another example is
located at 1Cor 11:27-30

I think it's nigh unto impossible to fix all the secular people attending
churches, but at least they can be warned of the consequences so they don't
go around with the false assumption that God is flexible with their behavior.
Same goes for the immoral people.

A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong;
Gives it a superficial appearance of being right.
(Thomas Paine)

NOTE: In a nutshell: items No.407 and No.408 speak of culling unacceptable
livestock from the herd (so to speak) and ideally in a spirit of regret rather
than militancy.

When God came to the point where it was necessary to destroy much of the
human life that He brought into existence; He expressed regret for even
creating human life in the first place.

I would suggest following His example when complying with Heb 12:15-17.
In other words: do so with sympathy, with reluctance, and with regret;
rather than like a barracuda.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,768
1,063
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
.
372» Heb 12:25-26 . . See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if
they did not escape who refused Him who spoke on Mt. Sinai, much more
shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven,
whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying: Yet
once more I shake not only the earth, but also heaven.

"Him who spoke on Mt. Sinai" was an angel of the Lord rather than God in
person. (Acts 7:53) In point of fact, Jesus said that the Jews had neither
heard God's voice nor seen his shape. (John 5:37)

The voice of the angel of the Lord was audible; but the voice that shook the
mountain was inaudible-- it's quite possibly the self-same voice that did all
that work of creation beginning with Genesis 1:3.

In contrast Jesus wasn't an angel, nor did he speak for God as a run of the
mill holy man; rather, Jesus spoke as the embodied voice of God. (John 1:1-3,
John 1:14 & Heb 1:1-2) viz: a theophany; and though we today only have
Jesus' words in print form, they are just as serious as his voice in human
form because Jesus' recorded words were spoken as God's voice rather than
speaking for God like the prophets once did.

"Yet once more" indicates the removal of those things that are being shaken,
as of things that are made, that the things which cannot be shaken may
remain. Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be
shaken, let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with
reverence and godly fear. For our God is a consuming fire. (Heb 12:27-29)

The "kingdom that cannot be shaken" is very likely a reference to Dan 7:9-22.

It's not uncommon for people to ask: What is grace? Well; you're likely to
hear any number of definitions; but quite few of grace's aspects are touched
upon in the letter to Hebrews, e.g. concern for the welfare of others,
generosity, morals, marital fidelity, clean speech, maturity, gratitude, and a
sensible attitude towards wealth. Those aspects easily qualify as serving God
acceptably with reverence and godly fear.

What is reverence and godly fear? Well, a rough-hewn definition is: having a
high enough opinion of God's core values to adopt them for your own and
put them into practice. (Eph 5:1)
_
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
533
158
43
Regarding "Paul forgot the first and most important of all". No, he said in GL 5:6, "In Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing [law] that counts [matters] is faith [love for God] expressing itself [working] through love [for man]." This is in the same vein as JM 2:5-8&17, "...Be rich in faith and inherit the kingdom He promised to those who love Him... Faith by itself, if it is not accompanied [expressed] by [loving] action, is dead [does not matter]." (Cf. EPH 2:8-10)
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,768
1,063
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
.
373» Heb 13:1 . . Let brotherly love continue.

The Greek word translated "brotherly love" in that passage refers to
fraternal affection which is quite a bit different than the neighborly love
required by Matt 19:19 and Matt 22:37-40.

The Greek word for "love" in those other passages doesn't necessarily
contain the element of affection; rather, it's a benevolent kind of love
exemplified in behaviors like courtesy, kindness, sympathy, civility, good
will, deference, and consideration. In other words: we don't have to be
especially fond of our fellow men in order to comply with Matt 19:19 and
Matt 22:37-40. (cf. Matt 5:43-48)

Brotherly love is difficult because it requires the involvement of one's
affections, viz: one's feelings rather than only manners. A really good
example is located at John 16:27 where Jesus stated:

"The Father himself loves you because you have loved me and have believed
that I came from God."

For those of us who grew up deprived of love; that passage is nigh unto
impossible to believe that God is actually, and truly, fond of us in any way at
all.

1John 3:1 . . Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon
us, that we should be called the sons of God."

The manner of love that a normal father feels for his own children is far
more sensitive, than the love he might feel for other children. A normal
father's love for his own children is down in his gut, viz: his affections.

There's no fondness expressed in passages like John 3:16; which speaks of
benevolence but not necessarily fondness and affection. God cares for the
world, yes, but that doesn't mean that He likes the world. In point of fact,
God quite despises the world; it disgusts Him and He'd really like for the
world to give Him cause to improve His opinion. (cf. Gen 6:5-6)
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,768
1,063
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
.
374» Heb 13:2 . . Do not neglect to be hospitable with strangers; for by this
some have entertained angels without knowing it.

Artists generally depict angels as heavenly creatures with wings and/or
aglow with some sort of ethereal light. But the Greek word doesn't always
indicate celestial beings, rather, it refers to all manner of messengers, e.g.
prophets (Matt 11:10), delegates (Luke 7:24), fire (Heb 1:7), ecclesiastic
authorities (Rev 1:20-3:14), visions (Rev 22:16), and even acts of God like
fire, wind, smoke, voices, and earthquakes. (Acts 7:53)

Webster's defines "hospitable" as: given to generous and cordial reception of
guests, promising or suggesting generous and friendly welcome, offering a
pleasant or sustaining environment.

Inviting strangers into one's own home could easily result in the murder of
your entire family, along with the theft of your belongings. So, I'm thinking
Heb 13:2 is not saying that; rather, it's talking about congregational homes;
viz: churches.

I think it's very important to make non members-- visitors --feel at home in
your church: make them feel like it's okay to return. Not only is that the
neighborly thing to do, but you just never know if that next stranger through
the door was guided there by providence, and selected by God for a special
purpose.

* Hospitable can also include being approachable, i.e. having or showing
kind, helpful, or supportive feelings or actions. The opposite of that would be
unfriendly, hostile, aloof, unsociable, critical, unsympathetic, and/or distant.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,768
1,063
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
.
375» Heb 13:3 . . Remember prisoners, as though in prison with them; and
those who are ill-treated, since you yourselves also are in the body.

The prisoners mentioned are not just any jailbird in lock-up; but rather, it's
limited to those who are "in the body" viz: in Christ.

Eph 5:30-32 . .We are members of his body. "For this reason a man will
leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will
become one flesh." This is a profound mystery-- but I am talking about
Christ and the church.

1Cor 12:12-13 . . For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all
the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body

The tenor of the command is, I think, restricted to Christians mistreated
and/or confined for their religious beliefs and practices rather than actual
crimes. There's a lot of that sort of thing going on today in Muslim countries.
America is well-known for its religious tolerance; other countries, not so
much.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,768
1,063
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
.
376» Heb 13:4 . . Let marriages be highly valued, and the bed kept
unsoiled; for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.

There was once a popular song that went like this:

You don't own me,
I'm not just one of your many toys.
You don't own me,
Don't say I can't go with other boys.

The lyrics of that song-- originally recorded by Lesley Gore in 1963 --depict
a defiant girl standing up to a possessive boyfriend. Well; those lyrics may
be true for temporary lovers; but are very contrary to God's thinking when it
comes to marriage.

The principle of possession is a key element in marriage; ergo: adulterers
have no right to share their bodies with lovers outside marriage without their
spouse's full knowledge and consent.

1Cor 7:4 . . The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the
husband does; and likewise also the husband does not have authority over
his own body, but the wife.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,768
1,063
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
.
377» Heb 13:5a . . Let your conduct be without covetousness;

Not all covetousness is prohibited; for example 1Cor 12:31 where Christians
are exhorted to eagerly desire certain spiritual gifts.

The Greek word in this instance refers to avarice; defined by Webster's as
excessive, or insatiable, desire for wealth or gain; viz: greediness and
cupidity.

Were an avaricious person asked how much and/or how many it would take
to satisfy them; their answer would no doubt be "more" because it's in their
nature to grasp.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,768
1,063
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
.
378» Heb 13:5b . . and be content with such things as ye have.

Since the writer connected this directive with avarice, I would have to say
his focus in this verse is on moderation; defined by Webster's as reasonable
limits and/or average; viz: avoiding extremes.

Heb 13:5-6 . . He himself has said: I will never leave you nor forsake you.
So we may boldly say: The Lord is my helper; I will not fear. What can Man
do to me?

Well, I should think thwarted domestic oil production, extravagant Federal
spending, runaway inflation, politicized business practices, the cancel
culture, lock-downs, a foreign collusion hoax, election fraud, insane
immigration policies, falsified science, a compromised Food and Drug
Administration, a Gestapo-style FBI, outlawing perfectly safe and useful
medications, creeping Socialism, Critical Race Theory, suppressing second
opinions, denying treatment, mandatory inoculations with experimental
vaccines, and perpetual masking easily demonstrate that even if Man can't
hurt me, he can certainly make a nuisance of himself.

But the thing is: Man isn't permitted to be a nuisance to us without their
nefarious intentions first clearing with God because even the Devil himself
can't get to us without first clearing with God. (e.g. Job 1:6-2:7, John 19:11,
Luke 22:31) So it's possible that some us are going to be very surprised to
discover the quantity of ill fortune that would've befallen us had not God
blocked it.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,768
1,063
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
.
379» Heb 13:7 . . Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to
you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith.

The "leaders" of that particular verse refer to the ones who captained Moses'
people over the centuries; e.g. Moses, Joshua, Gideon, Samuel, David.
Elijah, Ezra, and Nehemiah; and the prophets Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and
Micah; et al.

* There was once an advertisement for a beer on television that said, in so
many words: "You only go around once in life. So grab all the gusto you can
get." Well; Christ's believing followers should not be thinking like that. They
don't go around once; the real gusto is yet to come.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,768
1,063
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
.
380» Heb 13:9 . . Do not be carried away by strange and varied teachings;
for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace rather than foods,
through which those who were thus occupied were not benefited.

The words "carried away" weren't translated from Greek words. They're
arbitrary insertions; viz: they're words that a translating committee penciled
into the English text so as to make the passage say what they guessed it's
supposed to be saying. Arbitrary insertions are pretty common and nobody
seems to fear they might be adulterating the Bible; though they can be
misleading at times so caveat lector.

The word "strange" is translated from a Greek word that basically pertains to
someone or something with which Christians are unfamiliar, i.e. uncomfortable.

For example; though most Christians are familiar with the dietary laws
contained in the covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God, Christ's
followers are under no obligation to comply with them for the simple reason
that those laws are contractual. Well; Christians per se, are not contracted
with God to comply with those laws. Hence those dietary laws amount to
"strange" teachings; viz: they're unchristian.

Now, what I find curious about Heb 13:9 is the fact that the anointing
spoken of in 1John 2:26-27 is supposed to steer those who have it away
from deception while at the same time aligning them with the truth. So then,
that being the case, then it's clearly possible for those with the anointing to
ignore its guidance and instead buy into strange and varied teachings.

Another thing I should point out is that according to 1Thess 5:19, it's
possible to quench the anointing's guidance; viz: snuff it out like one would
snuff a candle so that it no longer produces light to illuminate one's path:
and that's not a good thing.

1John 1:5-6 . .This is the message we have heard from him and announce
to you, that God is light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say
that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do
not practice the truth.
_
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,768
1,063
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
381» Heb 13:16 . . And do not neglect doing good and sharing; for with
such sacrifices God is pleased.

Doing good and sharing are bloodless sacrifices; and in point of fact are far
more likely to be accepted by God than the death of birds and beasts.

In the first chapter of the book of Isaiah, God lambasted Moses' people for
bringing all the correct, God-mandated sacrifices to the Temple. Why?
Because those sacrifices were insulting while His people were not only
crooks; but also lacking the milk of human kindness. The sacrifices that God
preferred over and above the Temple offerings were the below:

Isa 1:17 . . Learn to do right! Seek justice, encourage the oppressed,
defend the cause of the fatherless, plead the case of the widow.

Also:

Hos 6:6 . . For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of
God more than burnt offerings.

So "doing good" consists of doing what's right, and seeking kindness and
fairness across the board for everyone; including the disadvantaged and the
disenfranchised.

The US Federal Government has been notoriously negligent in doing good by
its chronic failure to honor its treaties with Native Americans. Not long ago I
read in my local paper about 50 years of Federal foot-dragging in respect to
honoring its commitment to provide tribes situated along the Columbia River
with fishing villages to replace the ones that were obliterated due to
construction of The Dalles dam. Well; God takes note of that sort of thing;
nobody is getting by with anything.
_