Were Nephilim (Gen 6) judged differently by God?

[Diakonos]

So these principalities and powers of darkness that satan rules over are they not fallen angels?

That's the question, isn't it? Does Scripture say they are angels?

 

[Amanuensis]

That's the question, isn't it? Does Scripture say they are angels?

If you interpret angels being locked up as not being able to influence people to do evil then you would have to come up with some other theory to explain unclean spirits and demons.
If no theory is required, then you simply have created one by default. You have concluded that they are not fallen angels and are something else because your interpretation is that the fallen angels are locked up in such a way that they are no longer part of those we war against.

 

[Shepherd]

YES, do not go down the path of destruction as did:

A.) the Israelites who came out of Egypt under the Blood Covenant of the lamb but abandoned the Covenant and committed sexual immorality and thereby were destroyed

B.) the angels that abandoned there spiritual position and committed sexual sin with human flesh

C.) Sodom & Gomorrah and nearby cities abandoned the God ordained male husband/female wife sexual relationship for = 'anything goes that feels good, the more the merrier' lusting = men with men, women with women, human/animal perversion and orgies.

Now, what did all three groups have in common in that they all received God's wrath/judgment and are mentioned together in one WARNING from God for us to fear???

Three separate Old Testament groups of bad folks are mentioned in the Book of Jude:
The angels which kept not their first estate.....despised dominion
The Israelites in wildreness.......spoke evil of dignities
And the sodomites.......went after strange flesh.

The angels did not do the "strange flesh" thing.

 

[Diakonos]

If you interpret angels being locked up as not being able to influence people to do evil then you would have to come up with some other theory to explain unclean spirits and demons.
If no theory is required, then you simply have created one by default. You have concluded that they are not fallen angels and are something else because your interpretation is that the fallen angels are locked up in such a way that they are no longer part of those we war against.

Yes. Your reasoning is sound. BTW, demons and unclean spirits are equivalent.

“While he was still approaching, the demon slammed him to the ground and threw him into a convulsion.
But Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit, and healed the boy and gave him back to his father.” (Luke 9:42)

“For He had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For it had seized him many times; and he was bound with chains and shackles and kept under guard, and yet he would break his bonds and be driven by the demon into the desert.” (Luke 8:29)​

I do not see fallen angels and demons as equivalent, according to Scripture.
Fallen angels are kept elsewhere, while demons are very much here and active in the affairs of human life. A logical syllogism leads me to conclude that they are different kinds of creatures. To clarify, my conclusion comes from deduction, not curiosity. So I didn't begin with this idea and go look for ways to support it. I simply looked at Scripture and eliminated the wrong answers until only plausible conclusions remain. This is what I'm left with.

 

[DavidTree]

Three separate Old Testament groups of bad folks are mentioned in the Book of Jude:
The angels which kept not their first estate.....despised dominion
The Israelites in wildreness.......spoke evil of dignities
And the sodomites.......went after strange flesh.

The angels did not do the "strange flesh" thing.

You missed the word of God in Jude and even worse denied exactly what "is written" for our admonition.

 

[DavidTree]

Yes. Your reasoning is sound. BTW, demons and unclean spirits are equivalent.

“While he was still approaching, the demon slammed him to the ground and threw him into a convulsion.
But Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit, and healed the boy and gave him back to his father.” (Luke 9:42)

“For He had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For it had seized him many times; and he was bound with chains and shackles and kept under guard, and yet he would break his bonds and be driven by the demon into the desert.” (Luke 8:29)​

I do not see fallen angels and demons as equivalent, according to Scripture.
Fallen angels are kept elsewhere, while demons are very much here and active in the affairs of human life. A logical syllogism leads me to conclude that they are different kinds of creatures. To clarify, my conclusion comes from deduction, not curiosity. So I didn't begin with this idea and go look for ways to support it. I simply looked at Scripture and eliminated the wrong answers until only plausible conclusions remain. This is what I'm left with.

There are 3 Groups according to Scripture.

1 - The fallen angels who left the spiritual realm and came to earth. Because of this they and are now locked up = Genesis ch6 & Jude
2 - The fallen angels who remain in the spiritual realm = Daniel 10:10-21 , Eph 6:10-13 , 1 Peter 5:8
3 - evil spirits/unclean spirits = as you pointed out in the Gospels

 

[Diakonos]

2 - The fallen angels who remain in the spiritual realm = Daniel 10:10-21 , Eph 6:10-13 , 1 Peter 5:8

Does Scripture say these are angels?

 

[Shepherd]

You missed the word of God in Jude and even worse denied exactly what "is written" for our admonition.

The word of God makes sense to me. But what you just wrote doesn't. I "denied" nothing except the erroneous false belief that "angels went after strange flesh" .

 

[Amanuensis]

Yes. Your reasoning is sound. BTW, demons and unclean spirits are equivalent.

“While he was still approaching, the demon slammed him to the ground and threw him into a convulsion.
But Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit, and healed the boy and gave him back to his father.” (Luke 9:42)

“For He had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For it had seized him many times; and he was bound with chains and shackles and kept under guard, and yet he would break his bonds and be driven by the demon into the desert.” (Luke 8:29)​

I do not see fallen angels and demons as equivalent, according to Scripture.
Fallen angels are kept elsewhere, while demons are very much here and active in the affairs of human life. A logical syllogism leads me to conclude that they are different kinds of creatures. To clarify, my conclusion comes from deduction, not curiosity. So I didn't begin with this idea and go look for ways to support it. I simply looked at Scripture and eliminated the wrong answers until only plausible conclusions remain. This is what I'm left with.

It is much more likely that being locked under chains of darkness means the limitations that they are under after they rebelled. This interpretation does not require theorizing another order of evil beings.

 

[DavidTree]

The word of God makes sense to me. But what you just wrote doesn't. I "denied" nothing except the erroneous false belief that "angels went after strange flesh" .

Twice now you deny the word of God.
This time you call Jude someone who wrote down "erroneous false belief"

But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.
And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode,
He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Protect yourself, stop trying to be smarter the God.

PEACE

 

[DavidTree]

Does Scripture say these are angels?

YES - Do you know where? (i believe you do)

i did leave out the Glorious Angels that continue to serve our God - they also remain in the spiritual realm except when the LORD gives them special assignments whereby they can take on physical form.

"Let brotherly love continue. Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some have unwittingly entertained angels."

 

[Shepherd]

Twice now you deny the word of God.
This time you call Jude someone who wrote down "erroneous false belief"

But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.
And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode,
He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Protect yourself, stop trying to be smarter the God.

PEACE

I have denied nothing about or in the Word of God, only interpreted it differently from you.

 

[DavidTree]

I have denied nothing about or in the Word of God, only interpreted it differently from you.

There is no interpretation that is correct, except for exactly what Jude wrote.

Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.
Proverbs 30:5-6

 

[Shepherd]

There is no interpretation that is correct, except for exactly what Jude wrote.

Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.
Proverbs 30:5-6

4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

Three (3) different groups in the Old Testament are being used in the Book of Jude to describe a fourth group in the New Testament.
#1The angels rebelled against God, because they despised dominion.
#2 The "people out of the land of Egypt, the Israelites spoke evil against Moses, They "spake evil of dignities"
#3 The Sodomites committed fornication: they were homosexuals. They are the group who "defiled the flesh"
The "certain men crept in unawares/filthy dreamers" were doing ALL THREE.

The reason you have this angels "defiled the flesh" thing stuck in your mind is because someone told you that angels mated with humans and produced giants and you beleived them. But it's plain as day in the Book of Jude that this is not a valid interpretation. I don't know how to explain it any better.

 

[Diakonos]

It is much more likely that being locked under chains of darkness means the limitations that they are under after they rebelled. This interpretation does not require theorizing another order of evil beings.

Not just locked up...locked up in Tartarus.

And the verse says they were "cast" there to be "delivered" into chains of darkness. Where is this dark place that is "under darkness" (Jude 6)? It is Tartarus, which is the lowest part of Sheol = The abyss (called the bottomless pit elsewhere). We shouldn't play loose with the text. They are in a prison. No parole. no visitation rights. The whole shebang. They are "the spirits now in prison, who once were disobedient...in the days of Noah” (1 Peter 3:19–20)

 

[Diakonos]

i did leave out the Glorious Angels that continue to serve our God

But we're not talking about elect angels.
You said the beings in Daniel 10:10-21 , Eph 6:10-13, and 1 Peter 5:8 are "fallen angels". I'm challenging that.
I asked if the Bible calls them "angels". There are a handful of supernatural beings in the Bible. I'm asking you to show me how you know THESE beings are angels.

 

[Amanuensis]

Not just locked up...locked up in Tartarus.

And the verse says they were "cast" there to be "delivered" into chains of darkness. Where is this dark place that is "under darkness" (Jude 6)? It is Tartarus, which is the lowest part of Sheol = The abyss (called the bottomless pit elsewhere). We shouldn't play loose with the text. They are in a prison. No parole. no visitation rights. The whole shebang. They are "the spirits now in prison, who once were disobedient...in the days of Noah” (1 Peter 3:19–20)

Yes, but the word Tartarus has Greek mythology origins. We have to understand why Peter used that word. We know Peter was not supporting Greek Mythology. He was communicating using something they were familiar with.

Remember when Jesus talked about the Pharisees making converts twofold the child of hell than they were?

Referring to hell as the dominion of demons and satan is a common way of speaking about the realm which they are bound too without meaning to say that they are already suffering their eternal judgment.

I do see a connection with hell and satan and demons. I don't now exactly how it all works but that hell is part of their kingdom seems to be something understood even at the time of Christ. There were plenty of writings about there being portals to hell where demons could come and go. Even the valley of Himnon or Gehenna was supposed to have one of these portals. Not that I believe it did but this kind of conversation went on all the time and was written about. So for Peter to use a Greek Mythology word suggest that he is talking about their kingdom and domain. Actually using this word supports the idea of a realm, the realm understood in Greek mythology a vague sort of underworld realm but these demons were able to come from there and influence people.

 

[DavidTree]

But we're not talking about elect angels.
You said the beings in Daniel 10:10-21 , Eph 6:10-13, and 1 Peter 5:8 are "fallen angels". I'm challenging that.
I asked if the Bible calls them "angels". There are a handful of supernatural beings in the Bible. I'm asking you to show me how you know THESE beings are angels.

Daniel 10:10-21 are combatting angels / good vs evil

Eph 6:10-13 "the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms." = fallen angels

1 Peter 5:8 = the devil = this includes the fallen angels under his authority

 

[DavidTree]

4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

Three (3) different groups in the Old Testament are being used in the Book of Jude to describe a fourth group in the New Testament.
#1The angels rebelled against God, because they despised dominion.
#2 The "people out of the land of Egypt, the Israelites spoke evil against Moses, They "spake evil of dignities"
#3 The Sodomites committed fornication: they were homosexuals. They are the group who "defiled the flesh"
The "certain men crept in unawares/filthy dreamers" were doing ALL THREE.

The reason you have this angels "defiled the flesh" thing stuck in your mind is because someone told you that angels mated with humans and produced giants and you beleived them. But it's plain as day in the Book of Jude that this is not a valid interpretation. I don't know how to explain it any better.

lol - Continue in your religion = i have little patience for such willful ignorance of scripture right in front of their faces

 

[DavidTree]

I have denied nothing about or in the Word of God, only interpreted it differently from you.

Typical excuse from religious minded people - on and on it goes...........

One day you'll see, not now but one day.