We are not saved unless our sins are forgiven by Jesus.
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That should be our testimony . . .
Luke 5:24
But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins, (he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house.
1 John 4:14
And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
Luke 5:24
But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins, (he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house.
1 John 4:14
And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
Here are a few more verses that support your conclusion:
[Act 5:31 KJV] 31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand [to be] a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
[Act 13:38 KJV] 38 Be it known unto you therefore, men [and] brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
[Act 26:18 KJV] 18 To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
[Eph 1:7 KJV] 7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
[Col 1:14 KJV] 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
No need to kiss a pope’s ring, do that rosary thing or pray to Mary.
[Act 5:31 KJV] 31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand [to be] a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
[Act 13:38 KJV] 38 Be it known unto you therefore, men [and] brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
[Act 26:18 KJV] 18 To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
[Eph 1:7 KJV] 7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
[Col 1:14 KJV] 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
No need to kiss a pope’s ring, do that rosary thing or pray to Mary.
Neither of you is supporting your "point" with evidence from Scripture. Neither of you is making a coherent, rational argument, but rather expecting that one-liners will convince people that your position is correct. Neither of you will succeed by this strategy.
Solitude, that seems to be your default, so I'm not sure that you're capable of anything else. At least Doll has done so elsewhere.
Original sin is a Christian doctrine stating that all humans are born into a state of sinfulness inherited from Adam and Eve's first act of disobedience of God.
But this is not true for we are born innocent with no sin on our record.
We are not considered sinners until we do the act of sin knowing that it is wrong.
Mat 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
We are born innocent and the angels protect us spiritually which angels are sent as ministers to those in an innocent condition.
Eze 18:18 As for his father, because he cruelly oppressed, spoiled his brother by violence, and did that which is not good among his people, lo, even he shall die in his iniquity.
Eze 18:19 Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live.
Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Every person is responsible and guilty for their own sins.
No person suffers the consequences or is guilty for the sins of another person.
Adam and Eve's sin does not come upon the human race for that is their sin.
Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
God put the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden because He gave them a choice.
But it would of never entered in to their mind to eat of the tree unless an outside source tempted them because the only reality they could know is what God told them.
So God allowed Satan to tempt Eve and she said they could not eat of the tree because that is all she could think and know.
Then Satan tempted her with an alternate reality that if they ate of the tree they would be as gods and have an elevated position.
So she ate and sinned and then she was the outside source that tempted Adam and he ate and sinned.
They then had a choice to choose between good and evil so all their offspring are born with a choice.
So they are born not knowing God so they will sin before they repent and follow God.
So all people have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
Not all people are born sinners but all people have done the act of sin and so are sinners.
We are born innocent with no sin on our record for we are not blamed for Adam and Eve's sin and their guilt does not come upon us.
But we are born with a choice so we are born not knowing God so we will sin before we repent and obey God.
Adam and Eve were created knowing God.
We are born not knowing God.
Original sin is not true for we are born innocent.
We are not sinners until we do the act of sinning when we are accountable for it having understanding it.
You are correct. "Original Sin" is part of the Christian doctrine and like all "good" doctrines, they are based upon biblical facts.
The Holy Words of God teach "Original Sin". What you are arguing for, is a manmade doctrine. Adam, the first man, represented all of mankind. He was created upright before God and had the ability to choose God's ordinance or reject it. By rejecting it, he determined that what God had said was not true; choosing to believe the serpent instead, through the agency of Eve. In this, He "fell" in sin and took all of mankind with him. His original uprightness and ours - was gone. This is clearly taught.
Rom 5:12 Therefore, as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin; and so death passed unto all men, for that all sinned:--
Rom 5:18 So then as through one trespass the judgment came unto all men to condemnation; even so through one act of righteousness the free gift came unto all men to justification of life.
Adam's one trespass. caused ALL to be sinners. Why is this true? Simply put, all of mankind are from Adam's seed and all of Adam's prodigy are guilty of the trespass even though they have not sinned in this way.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the likeness of Adam's transgression, who is a figure of him that was to come.
His offspring are not guilty because they commit sin - though the committing of sin adds to their judgement - they are guilty because they came from Adam's loins. This is why Jesus Christ had to be born of a virgin and not from normal procreation. Indeed, if Jesus Christ had a human father, the prodigy of Adam, He could not have been that "Holy thing". He could not have been the "Lamb" without spot or blemish. He would have needed a savior.
Additional verses that prove all of mankind is born in sin.
Gen 8:21 .. I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake, for that the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth..
Job 15:14 What is man, that he should be clean? And he that is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?
Psalm 53:2-3 God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there were any that did understand, That did seek after God. (3) Every one of them is gone astray; they are together become filthy; There is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies.
Pro 22:15a Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is exceedingly corrupt: who can know it?
You stated: "So they are born not knowing God so they will sin before they repent and follow God." This is not accurate. The Bible teaches, that all have a knowledge of God through the things seen in nature. (Rom. 1:19&20) Also, they sin because it is in their nature, not necessarily because of their lack of knowledge. (Eph. 2:1-3) Apart from God's saving Grace and Jesus' Righteousness, He sees all of us as: ..an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags.. (Isa. 64:6a)
Then you stated: "We are not sinners until we do the act of sinning when we are accountable for it having understanding it." This one sounds so good to our fallen nature. Innocent at birth. Problem is, that is not what God has revealed in His Word. Where do you find ANY verse, that says mankind is born innocent? Please reveal this to me. This is nothing more than a church teaching that either misunderstands what the Bible reveals or is intentionally ignoring the hard truth. We are all sinners in Adam and deserve to be condemned. You say "accountable".. which I assume you mean at a certain age or understanding. But I must ask: "What is this magical age of accountability"? Six months old, one year, two or three? Where does the Bible discuss age accountability? Also, since mans heart is wicked beyond ones understanding - who determines when a person understands their sin and thus becomes accountable?
Precious friend, Paul Was Inspired to pen This?:
"I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died." (Romans 7:9 AV)
related to "age of accountability"?
Amen.
I think that this statement undermines every thing the bible teaches. Perhaps its the wording?
My understanding is that because of our inherit sin nature we cannot and will not succeed into our purpose to glorify God.
If we were born to be sinners then I am born perfect and have no need to change.
That statement does not comport with Scripture in any way.[/QUOTE]If we were born to be sinners then I am born perfect and have no need to change.
I am not sure exactly how you were trying to apply this verse but Romans 7:9 has nothing to do with age accountability. It has to do with proper understanding of the Law.
Romans chapter 7, taken in it's context, has Paul defending the "Moral Law" of God. It can save no one and it's purpose is to expose sin and prove that none of us deserves to live. For who can keep, perfectly, this Law. NO ONE! Except Jesus Christ. Paul being a Jew and a highly learned Jew at that, knew the Law but did not understand the purpose of the Law. Apart from God's Grace, Paul thought he was keeping the Law and as such, was "alive". However, when he was called out by Jesus Christ, on the way to Damascus, he came to understand that the Law was not ONLY about actions but also included the spiritual and mental failings as well. Now clearly understanding the effect and purpose of the Law, he realized that he had not been alive but was indeed dead according to the Law.
No unsaved person has the correct understanding of God's moral Law. They see only the superficial aspect of each commandment. In stark contrast, those who have tasted God's Grace, sees every facet of the moral Law and are brought to their knees in repentance because they see the truly fallen and wretched nature they possess.
But my typing skills are not the fastest, so let me present this as well:
John Gill:
For I was alive without the law once,.... the apostle is speaking of himself, and that not as in his state of infancy before he could discern between good and evil, but when grown up, and whilst a Pharisee; who, though he was born under the law, was brought up and more perfectly instructed in it than the common people were, and was a strict observer of it, yet was without the knowledge of the spirituality of it; he, as the rest of the Pharisees, thought it only regarded the outward actions, and did not reach to the spirits or souls of men, the inward thoughts and affections of the mind; the law was as it were at a distance from him, it had not as yet entered into his heart and conscience; and whilst this was his case he was "alive", he did not know that he "was dead in trespasses and sins", Eph_2:1, a truth he afterwards was acquainted with; nor that he was so much as disordered by sin; he thought himself healthful, sound, and whole, when he was diseased and full of wounds, bruises, and sores, from head to foot; he lived in the utmost peace and tranquility, without the least ruffle and uneasiness, free from any terror or despondency, and in perfect security, being in sure and certain hope of eternal life; and concluded if ever any man went to heaven he certainly should, since, as he imagined, he lived a holy and righteous life, free of all blame, and even to perfection;
but when the commandment came; not to Adam in the garden of Eden; nor to the Israelites on Mount Sinai; but into the heart and conscience of the apostle, with power and light from above:
sin revived; it lift up its monstrous head, and appeared in its ugly shape, exceeding sinful indeed; it grew strong and exerted itself; its strugglings and opposition, its rebellion and corruption were seen and felt, which show that it was not dead before, only seemed to be so; it was in being, and it lived and acted before as now; the difference was not in that, but in the apostle's sense and apprehension of it, who upon sight of it died away:
and I died; he now saw himself a dead man, dead in sin, dead in law, under a sentence of death which he now had within himself; he saw he was deserving of eternal death, and all his hopes of eternal life by his obedience to the law of works died at once; he now experimentally learnt that doctrine he so much insisted afterwards in his ministry, and to the last maintained, that there can be no justification of a sinner by the deeds of the law, since by it is the knowledge of sin.
If Adam believed the serpent then he was deceived, and yet, Scripture says it was Eve who was
deceived, and Adam was not, therefore, Adam wilfully chose to sin by disobeying God and eating
the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thus choosing death over life. God did
know that that was going to be Adam's choice because Jesus Christ was already purposed by God
before the creation of the world to provide a ransom for sins and to grant eternal life to believers.
James 1 verses 14-15; 1 John 2 verse 16 Each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed. Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. For all that is in the world- the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life- is not from the Father but from the world. .
You are so, so right. Amen.If Adam believed the serpent then he was deceived, and yet, Scripture says it was Eve who was
deceived, and Adam was not, therefore, Adam wilfully chose to sin by disobeying God and eating
the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thus choosing death over life. God did
know that that was going to be Adam's choice because Jesus Christ was already purposed by God
before the creation of the world to provide a ransom for sins and to grant eternal life to believers.
James 1 verses 14-15; 1 John 2 verse 16 Each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed. Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. For all that is in the world- the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life- is not from the Father but from the world. .
Sadly, most of Christendom continues to overlook the fact that everything was already in the mind of God before He created anything. He knew that Lucifer would rebel, Adam would sin, the effect of the Fall and had purposed every aspect of the redemptive plan. That is why John could write, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, that the names were already written in the Lamb's Book of Life and that the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world. (Revelation). Not simply because He knew but because it was in His eternal purpose.
Quite honestly, I don't understand every aspect of God's purpose or why - I just except it.