Was Adam Made Holy

[Dino246]

I checked up on post#95 and I cannot see PS saying such a thing.

'All flesh sinned ' refers to mankind with the exception of one man, the perfect man, perfect God and truly man.
I am sure PS did not mean in any way to refer to our Lord.

Here is Post #95 quoted in its entirety:

Adam was flesh and eventually all flesh sins. Even before Adam sinned, he was not holy as God is Holy.

I did not suggest or even imply that PS believes that Jesus sinned. I was only addressing his implication that Adam was sinful before eating the forbidden fruit.

Frankly, I am surprised at the number of people who have addressed me regarding someone else's words. Please pay attention to the punctuation and the quotations; they are there for good reason.

 

[Dino246]

Dino246 said post#71:
something about hogwash.

Perhaps tone the attitude down a tad brother?

Garee and I have been discussing various topics on this site for well over a year. He is not new to Christianity. He reads Scripture for himself, but unfortunately has taken a very unusual (and IMHO, indefensible) approach to interpreting it.

When his statements are blatantly unbiblical (which is sadly frequent), I tell him so, and in my view, "hogwash" is tame language. It is a criticism of his ideas, not him personally. Unfortunately, many people can't grasp that distinction.

 

[ieuan]

Dino246 - apology if I got it wrong. What I should have made clear is that your post #128 said was:

Today at 8:26 PM #128 dcontroversal said:

Did Jesus sin?

That question is best directed to PS, who made the assertion in the post #95.

My fuss was that you [Dino246] implied PS made an assertion that Jesus Sinned.

My post there was that I see no evidence that PS said or implied that.
So you reorted #95 to the thread, but I find no evidence of that despite
your denial.

I suppose we can agree to disagree, but PS said no such thing.

 

[Dino246]

Dino246 - apology if I got it wrong. What I should have made clear is that your post #128 said was:




My fuss was that you [Dino246] implied PS made an assertion that Jesus Sinned.

My post there was that I see no evidence that PS said or implied that.
So you reorted #95 to the thread, but I find no evidence of that despite
your denial.

I suppose we can agree to disagree, but PS said no such thing.

Again, please trace the thread more carefully. DCon was reacting to PS's statement which I quoted. I directed him to PS. DCon asked the question that is troubling you; I didn't.

 

[ieuan]

Dino2462 said in #162:

When his statements are blatantly unbiblical (which is sadly frequent), I tell him so, and in my view,
"hogwash" is tame language. It is a criticism of his ideas, not him personally. Unfortunately, many people
can't grasp that distinction.

I take your point Dino, but 'hogwash' is a filthy term to the Jews and it has
been adopted by others, it may be tame, but surely it is unnecessary. We may
be witnessing to unbelievers on this thread, we don't know their hearts or motives.
Obviously you have had a prior experience with that person, but I have asked that we leave
the past behind when we enter and start fresh. Surely that is reasonable for us to ask.
We are in the privilidged postion of discussing the Word of God, what a wonderful opportunity
to witness our faith and to share in eductaing each other.

When someone is truly blasphemous, yes we should point it out, but graciously as we are
all benefiting His mercy to us right now, at this moment.

prefer we don't abuse each other with invectives.

 

[Dino246]

Dino246 - apology if I got it wrong. What I should have made clear is that your post #128 said was:

My fuss was that you [Dino246] implied PS made an assertion that Jesus Sinned.

My post there was that I see no evidence that PS said or implied that.
So you reorted #95 to the thread, but I find no evidence of that despite
your denial.

I suppose we can agree to disagree, but PS said no such thing.

I think I figured out where the misunderstanding occurred. DCon quoted my quote of PS, asking if Jesus sinned. I directed DCon to PS with the following:

"That question is best directed to PS, who made the assertion in the post #95."

My words, "the assertion" referred to PS's words which I had previously quoted, not to DCon's words. I was neither stating nor implying that PS stated that Jesus had sinned. It appears that you read my post to DCon as though I was saying that PS had claimed that Jesus sinned, which I wasn't.

What a kerfuffle! Anyway, I think it's sorted now.

 

[JamOn]

Not hardly....the statement stands ALONE......WOW MAN.....how can you deny that factual truth....Jesus has always been and he, WHILE IN HEAVEN ON HIS THRONE watched clearly as Satan was cast out AND JUST LIKE LIGHTNING fell to the earth...

It is impossible to engage people that flat reject the obvious

Lightning is from the earth, what do you think he meant when he said SEE see what “lightning” it was a visual reference look at the lightning that is how fast satan’s power was rendered moot. you need to stop pulling one verse and creating something that it isn’t that is what you have done with your theory of satans fall before creation is nonsense to say the least.

 

[JamOn]

I am one of those "folks" who believe Adam and Eve could have lived forever if they had not sinned.

Romans 5:12 tells us Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin ...

Before sin entered into the world, there was no death.

Because of what is written in Rom 5:12, I believe that if Adam had not sinned, he would not have died and he would have continued living.


You know, we will have new bodies in new heaven and new earth. Also, in new heaven and new earth, there will be a street and the tree of life (Rev 22:2). I believe I will live forever in new heaven new earth ... do you believe you will live forever in new heaven new earth?

If so, why do you not believe God would have formed, made, created Adam/Eve to live forever.

God knowing Adam would sin, and having a plan in place to redeem mankind, is not the same as Adam not having been formed, made, created by God to live forever.

Because I know this universe and everything in it was never meant to be forever.

 

[JamOn]

AS LIGHTNING use your head man!

Yea dude lightning is formed in earths atmosphere get a grip on reality gees, yea lightning use your head. I’m not the sharpest pencil in the box but I think I know where lightning comes from that is laughable hahaha really that takes the cake

 

[posthuman]

innocent = never doing wrong/never disobeying God
righteous = always doing what is right/always choosing to obey God's will perfectly

does this definition fit Lot, who scripture calls righteous?

 

[posthuman]

Well I don’t how you would explain he was blameless a reflection of perfection in the garden, I do agree he tried to elevate himself above God

he walked among the fiery stones. the garden wasn't full of fiery stones; it was full of plants and living souls.
who else was among the fiery stones?

 

[Deuteronomy]

does this definition fit Lot, who scripture calls righteous?

Hello @posthuman, I think my definitions above fit better with a verse like this one from the Lord, no one is good, except God alone .. Mark 10:18.

When the Bible describes people as "righteous", like it does in the case of Lot (who, as a father, offered his daughters up to be raped by a mob in Sodom, and then later, in a drunken state, fathered children with them), how are we to understand that (understand how anyone among us can, in fact, be referred to as "righteous" in the Bible .. Romans 3:10-12) Perhaps God is not held up as the standard whenever someone among us is referred to as "righteous"?

Thanks!

~Deut

 

[ieuan]

As to lightening, and I am not going to get into this discussion about lightning.
But remember the Bible is mostly poetry, there is poetry license involves,
not everything is literal, and although lightening is from he earth as has been said
it mainly shows the power of God. OT saints believed lightning came from God.

When a man is said to be righteous in the Bible or good, or even very good, sometimes holy,
it means he is a believer, he is covered by the blood shed on the cross, the OT saints were saved
the same we are by faith in a Redeemer. I mean this is basic Christian doctrine no matter
what denomination. Lot was loved by God, counted righteous, so that when he stands before
the throne and Satan ready to accuse he may be told, as was Joshua the High Priest of Israel,
"This is a brand plucked from the burning Satan."

We may be sinful, yet we are counted as righteous in faith. Amen

 

[JamOn]

he walked among the fiery stones. the garden wasn't full of fiery stones; it was full of plants and living souls.
who else was among the fiery stones?

Along the river that flowed from it gold and bdellium and onyx was found there.

 

[JamOn]

As to lightening, and I am not going to get into this discussion about lightning.
But remember the Bible is mostly poetry, there is poetry license involves,
not everything is literal, and although lightening is from he earth as has been said
it mainly shows the power of God. OT saints believed lightning came from God.

When a man is said to be righteous in the Bible or good, or even very good, sometimes holy,
it means he is a believer, he is covered by the blood shed on the cross, the OT saints were saved
the same we are by faith in a Redeemer. I mean this is basic Christian doctrine no matter
what denomination. Lot was loved by God, counted righteous, so that when he stands before
the throne and Satan ready to accuse he may be told, as was Joshua the High Priest of Israel,
"This is a brand plucked from the burning Satan."

We may be sinful, yet we are counted as righteous in faith. Amen

Who told you the Bible is mostly poetry?

brand plucked from the burning ((satan)) what are you talking about,

yea his not getting a Capitulation from me he deserves nothing, but don’t let that stop you

 

[garee]

You can suggest anything you like, but if you want your position to be consistent with the teaching of Scripture, you will have to abandon your erroneous ideas. The one basic meaning of "good" is consistent. While the phrase, "good for nothing" means the opposite, it does so only as a complete phrase, and doesn't change the meaning of the word "good" but in fact preserves the meaning.


This is all irrelevant to your claim that the earth was corrupted on day 4.

Yes good for nothing as compared to something that could profit. The flesh of Jesus profits for nothing .Its good for nothing. It is his unseen Holy Spirit that is good alone. . It works in our bodies of death as it did in the Son of man Jesus. Yet he was without sin because of the unseen power that worked within..

Why did the Son of man, Jesus when accused of being good master rather than agreeing give glory to the father not seen? After all no man could serve two masters. . . The temporal flesh seen and the eternal Spirit not seen. Jesus said only God is good. God is not a man as us, never was never could be. As the one eternal Spirit of Truth. . . . good his seal of approval or fingerprint. Jesus would never stand in unseen Holy Place. The abomination of desolation which occurred in the garden ."surely you will not die" the glory departed

And God saw the light, that it was good: God alone is Light.

1 John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

What day do you think it was corrupted. Seeing time under the Sun had not begun until day 4? God never called darkness good, that makes good, good for nothing.

 

[posthuman]

The whole creation was corrupted on day four.

but He saw that the fourth day was good.
Genesis doesn't say that about the second day - the day in which He separated the waters from the waters. and on the first, He saw the light was good, and divided it from darkness.

 

[garee]

These verses are irrelevant to your assertion, "Adam was flesh and eventually all flesh sins."

Temporal flesh is the result or product of corruption. Human flesh is reasoned as sinful. God by reason of the letter of the law corrupted all the rudiments of this earth and heavens . A change was made. Witnessed by the wrath of God now being revealed from heaven... a dying creation.. A creation whose spiritless flesh returns to the dust and the temporal spirit back to the father of spirit life.

That which once not seen became the nakedness they tried to cover up having no righteousness of their own . No one knows what non corrupted flesh is .

Those who are given a new born again spirit will rise on the last day and receive their promised new incorruptible bodies .The glory of God will be the light there will be no more night. Only the good Light.

 

[Deuteronomy]

...the Bible is mostly poetry, there is poetry license involves,
not everything is literal, and although lightening is from he earth as has been said
it mainly shows the power of God. OT saints believed lightning came from God.

Hello Ieuan, while there are many poetic narratives in the Bible, the Bible also has a lot to teach us didactically (and historically). And while there are certainly passages that are not meant to be taken literally (especially out-of-context with the rest of the Bible), a literal reading is where we should at least begin an exegetical study, I think. So, I agree with what you said above for the most part, except that the Bible is made up mostly of poetry.

When a man is said to be righteous in the Bible or good, or even very good, sometimes holy, it means he is a believer, he is covered by the blood shed on the cross, the OT saints were saved the same we are by faith in a Redeemer. I mean this is basic Christian doctrine no matter what denomination. Lot was loved by God, counted righteous, so that when he stands before the throne and Satan ready to accuse he may be told, as was Joshua the High Priest of Israel, "This is a brand plucked from the burning Satan." We may be sinful, yet we are counted as righteous in faith. Amen

Hello Ieuan, I agree (and it was very well-stated too)

Thank you

~Deut

 

[Dino246]

Yes good for nothing as compared to something that could profit. The flesh of Jesus profits for nothing .Its good for nothing. It is his unseen Holy Spirit that is good alone. . It works in our bodies of death as it did in the Son of man Jesus. Yet he was without sin because of the unseen power that worked within..

The flesh of Jesus was sacrificed on the cross as payment for your sin and my sin. Deny this and you deny that you are a Christian.

What day do you think it was corrupted. Seeing time under the Sun had not begun until day 4? God never called darkness good, that makes good, good for nothing.

The creation was corrupted when Adam and Eve ate of the forbidden fruit, not during the six days of creation.