Visualization in Prayer

[presidente]

So much hat do you think is the difference between carving and image and imagining an image?

One involves carving, and one does not. One is forbidden in scripture. The other is not.

 

[Subhumanoidal]

The New Testament also says much about receiving from the Lord in response to faith. Jesus said such things as 'according to your faith, be it done unto you.' There is the passage about moving mountains, the mulberry tree, etc. The idea of God granting requests in response to prayers made with faith is older than New Age.

New Agers do talk about visualization. But people have been picturing things in their minds for thousands of years, before white people ever went to California.

But if you had read my post you'd understand the distinction.
Visualization isn't prayer. "The universe" isn't God. And New Age practices existed during biblical times. So I'm not sure the relevance there. If your concept of New Age is white people in CA then your ignorance is understandable.

 

[presidente]

But if you had read my post you'd understand the distinction.
Visualization isn't prayer. "The universe" isn't God. And New Age practices existed during biblical times. So I'm not sure the relevance there. If your concept of New Age is white people in CA then your ignorance is understandable.

'Visualization' is the act of picturing something in one's mind. People also do it who do not accept New Age ideas, think that the universe is god, etc. It does not have to be religious.

Associating New Age with white people in California is a fair stereotype. It's a mishmash of Hinduism and various occultic concepts and a lot of this stuff has come out of California.

https://www.google.com/search?q=def...7j0i22i30l9.2623j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

One involves carving, and one does not. One is forbidden in scripture. The other is not.

So it's ok to imagine a thing as long as you don't do it.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

'Visualization' is the act of picturing something in one's mind. People also do it who do not accept New Age ideas, think that the universe is god, etc. It does not have to be religious.

Associating New Age with white people in California is a fair stereotype. It's a mishmash of Hinduism and various occultic concepts and a lot of this stuff has come out of California.

https://www.google.com/search?q=def...7j0i22i30l9.2623j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Ok I tell ya what. You use your prayer time to exercise your imagination, and imagine images of God and conjure images of sinless earth and all that stuff and you impose your imagination upon God's word forming his word into your own image as the op advocates.

I'll use my prayer time to speak to God, and let him inform and confirm my thinking and transform me to his image. Ok so this debate is settled. No need to discuss

 

[Gideon300]

Prayer can be many things. It can be simply repeating a memory verse, it can be a conversation with the Lord, or simply quietly listening for His voice. Another way of prayer is to be guided by a prayer given to us by the lord. The Lord’s Prayer is an example.

Here is way to use visualization with the Lord’s Prayer:

Our Father who art is heaven, hallowed be thy name: Psalms gives us pictures of the Father. He is spirit, creator, all powerful. Visualize what scripture tells of Him.

Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven: Visualize an earth with no sin in it!

Give us this day our daily bread: See the Lord as supervising what goes in our minds and our bodies.

Forgive us our debts: What power! Jesus is giving us righteousness that lets us live forever!

As we forgive our debtors: We let go of all our grudges against others.

Lead us not into temptation: We ask the Lord to help us want to be sinless.

Deliver us from evil: The Lord protects you from any evil that surrounds you.

For thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory, Amen.

You get the idea, but your visualization will be guided by the Holy Spirit and it will be just for you. Also, reading many of the Psalms in this way opens up a wonderful spiritual world for you.

Visualization borders on the occult. There is no need for it. If you mean thinking about things -(Philippians 4:8)

"Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, think about these things." - then yes, it's fine.

NA

 

[Riveraname]

The issue here is that there is a new age/occult practice called visualization. In this practice people are taught to visualize the things they want into existence. So if you want a Mercedes you spend time every day visualizing it and "the universe" will eventually respond by manifesting your visualization.
Basically it puts man as a creator, in a sense, and "the universe" (new age concept of God) as our lackey doing our bidding.

Ironically prosperity "gospel" teaches the same concept (using speaking things into creation).

So now someone is talking about mixing this into prayer. So it's not just an issue of picturing something because one is a visual thinker, it's about visualizing things with the purpose of manifesting it.
As to whether or not the OP means this is unclear to me. Some feel they do, hence the disagreement. And if that is the intent then people are rightly speaking against it.

Thank you for clearing things up for me

 

[Blik]

I can ask you the same question based on that rest of your comment.



Show me the difference between this and the coffee. Where do the scriptures indicate that it is sinful to visualize such things while praying? Where does the Bible indicate that it is wrong to do so? Plenty of people automatically think this way. There are some highly 'visually descriptive' passages in scripture that would incline many people to think visually, that I mentioned before. What is the basis for associating such things with the occult.

I am not sure it 'helps' at all to do so. That is one of my concerns. It may be more like asking someone to pray through their nose and not their mouth reading scripture. It might even be a distraction for many, and it probably will not help from a spiritual perspective, but it is not inherently pagan or occultic to do so.

Finally, someone who makes sense.

All these posts about setting down rules for prayer based on the occult, new age, etc. is not of God. There is even a post someway accusing and objecting to the personal aspects of prayer, making no sense at all.

When the Lord gives us adjectives and word pictures, to say that we must somehow discipline our minds not to allow the pictures God suggests is a terrible thing to do to Christianity. To make the entirely false accusation that if we follow the Lord with our minds, it cannot be in pictures for if it is it is the occult, new age, or in someway sinful. It is a terrible thing to do.

 

[Blik]

Visualization borders on the occult. There is no need for it. If you mean thinking about things -(Philippians 4:8)

"Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, think about these things." - then yes, it's fine.

NA

You speak out of both sides of your mouth. You say visualization borders on the occult and then you quote a passage telling us to visualize whatever is true, etc. Or are you able to think in such a completely abstract way that you have no idea what, for instance, praise is? How do you think praise with no picture of praising in your mind?

 

[mustaphadrink]

So you don't sing the scriptures?

I do an apology for singing.

 

[mustaphadrink]

I should rather say, "A theologian is a person who won't sing".
(IOW, they can sing but they won't, because there is no joy to be found in them to express in song and praise.) - fixed it!

That is quite different.

 

[presidente]

You speak out of both sides of your mouth. You say visualization borders on the occult and then you quote a passage telling us to visualize whatever is true, etc. Or are you able to think in such a completely abstract way that you have no idea what, for instance, praise is? How do you think praise with no picture of praising in your mind?

I do. When I hear the word 'praise', I typically do not have a picture in my mind of someone praising. A picture, vaguely, did go through my mind while writing this because the topic is thinking in pictures. Some of us do not think in pictures. But other people do. My guess is those who want to oppose thinking in pictures probably do not usually think in pictures themselves.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

I do an apology for singing.

I like to sing the scriptures. My wife hates it, lol. She don't like that part of our church practice either, where the pastor sings parts of the scriptures.

 

[Blik]

I do. When I hear the word 'praise', I typically do not have a picture in my mind of someone praising. A picture, vaguely, did go through my mind while writing this because the topic is thinking in pictures. Some of us do not think in pictures. But other people do. My guess is those who want to oppose thinking in pictures probably do not usually think in pictures themselves.

The post I responded to told that you may not picture praise, threatening that if you do you are into the occult. These threat posts trying to oversee our minds need to stop.

It is impossible not to ever picture what you think about. If I were to say "Lemon" to you, and order you not to picture a lemon could you do it? What if I threatened and accused you if you did see a lemon in your mind? That is what these people are doing and it is very wrong.

 

[presidente]

The post I responded to told that you may not picture praise, threatening that if you do you are into the occult. These threat posts trying to oversee our minds need to stop.

It is impossible not to ever picture what you think about. If I were to say "Lemon" to you, and order you not to picture a lemon could you do it? What if I threatened and accused you if you did see a lemon in your mind? That is what these people are doing and it is very wrong.

Usually, if you say 'lemon', I might not picture it. I'd say about 80% chance against it. But when I read that sentence about ordering me not to picture a lemon, I did briefly.

I agree, it is extreme and not based on any scripture at all.

 

[crossnote]

It is impossible not to ever picture what you think about.

Maybe that's why it is important that our minds be conformed to His Word.

Romans 12:2 (NASB) And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect. (visualize that)

 

[mustaphadrink]

I like to sing the scriptures. My wife hates it, lol. She don't like that part of our church practice either, where the pastor sings parts of the scriptures.

Back in the 70s there was a musical production group known as Scripture in Song. They wrote songs that were 100% scripture. They kept it simple and a lot of them were the psalms to music. Musically all you needed was a guitar and or a piano. The music was very pure and the songs inspiring. I am so sad that they were replaced by the heavy rock that we have today.

 

[PaulChristensen]

She will illogically attack this accurate assessment of her practices. It's absurd really. She will say you shouldn't call her paganism what it is.

My reply to that is that the god of this world has blinded her mind so that she cannot see the light of the Gospel of Christ.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

My reply to that is that the god of this world has blinded her mind so that she cannot see the light of the Gospel of Christ.

Sadly a few people who failed to understand what she is advocating has made it about thinking style, rather than using the Lord's prayer as a form of visualization meditation, which is what she originally posted and defended. Oh well, we have done our best to warm them, let them have their way now. If they want to impose their own imaginations upon the word of God rather than allow him to inform their thinking it will not prophet them anything. They will continue and will form bad doctrine and eventually heresy if they don't repent. She is already advocating the heresy of law keeping.

 

[crossnote]

Back in the 70s there was a musical production group known as Scripture in Song. They wrote songs that were 100% scripture. They kept it simple and a lot of them were the psalms to music. Musically all you needed was a guitar and or a piano. The music was very pure and the songs inspiring. I am so sad that they were replaced by the heavy rock that we have today.

Back then many of the songs were taken right out of the Scriptures, especially the Psalms and done, like you said, in a simple folk style.
The musicians would also do their best not to draw attention to themselves.