Hm, this is not correct. I dont need to visualize something what is already as picture there
Visualization in Prayer
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Maby it depend what you understand umder the term visualisation? When I talk with people i dont rise pictures before my inner eyes about what I talk to them. So when I pray to my heavenly father I dont visualize what i am telling to him.
Ya and I wonder why some here split hairs. 1Cor.2:16 says that "we have the mind of Christ". Now, is that not sufficient?Hm, this is not correct. I dont need to visualize something what is already as picture there
What i see happening is we see ' OUR Father ' being given to Jews in a Jewish manner ,and we say " hey now Hes our Father, so therefore that prayer means now its for us too ' . I see this happening to lots of verses . Yes you can make that nice little connection, but it completely negates the point of the prayer and who its to and how they prayed . The issue with it now, christianity has made it as popular as the B.i.b.l.e song that its become ingrained. Its gets taught in the same ole Sunday school fashion. " Yes this is a template of how we today should pray " , " this is a formula blah blah " and then fill in the blank by who ever is preaching on the ' Lords prayer ' and what it ' really means ' to us , blah , blah...don't you Just love it when the Catholics say it in unison in that lively tone lol .
I believe OUR is completely in keeping with who Jesus was giving that prayer to . The ' OUR ' was their way under the OT . I hold that meaning..the biblical meaning. We tend to grab verses and make them western American and name it and claim it .
are you not reading this in your trusty KJV?
After this manner therefore pray ye
(Matthew 6:9)
"ye" is plural. therefore "our" is plural. He's speaking to a group - you know, the one we are grafted into? the same way you just wrote "we"
i believe the believers in Galatia were largely not Jewish?
Grace to you and peace from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.
(Galatians 1:3-5)
(Galatians 1:3-5)
which part of Matthew 6 in particular do you think is inappropriate to pray if you don't have Jewish flesh? "Thy kingdom come" ?
should i instead pray His kingdom not be manifest on earth as it is in heaven, if i'm goyim after the flesh?
i anticipate you'll say 'kingdom' has to do with an earthly kingdom on the throne of David, and neatly brush aside all the things telling us this is a kingdom that blesses the whole earth, filling it with knowledge of Him.
do you anticipate that i will reply with His own words, that His kingdom is not of this world? ((John 18:36)) that there will not be envying and division among us, as there is in the world? that i might mention when they tried to make Him an earthly king, He departed from them? ((John 6:15))
it's probably significant that it says "Thine is the kingdom" instead of "ours is the kingdom"
interesting; never heard anyone arguing to prevent people from praying these things before.
this is actually a really amazing thing happening here -- it's not like Jews do not know how to pray. they, unlike the goyim, have a few thousand years of history of righteous prayer. so why are His disciples asking Him to teach them how to pray? why did John feel it necessary to teach his disciples a certain way of praying? ((Luke 11)) are they the same?
what has happened - what do they discern - such that they understand they need to learn how to pray all over again? is it really so simple and trivial as 'John taught methods of prayer and they want to be cool like John's disciples' ? ((Luke 11))
why isn't it enough to say, don't be like the hypocrites who pray openly in a big showy way for everyone to hear how pious they are?
why isn't enough to say, don't be like the pagans who vainly repeat mumbo-jumbo like they're casting a spell?
we know prayer isn't for others; it's for God. check.
we know God doesn't hear us just because we say magic words enough times. check.
so in Matthew 6 why does vv. 9-15 exist? and why does this question arise in the first place?
well lol we **ought** to know this.
but listen objectively to what your pastor says on Sunday when he prays into a microphone that broadcasts it for everyone in the congregation to listen to. is he praying to God or is he just going through a bullet-list of major points from his sermon? i.e. talking to you while pretending to talk to God?
=|
Paul isn't telling them to pray like this ' OUR father ,blah , blah, blah ,ect "
I've never heard any one pray the ' Lords Prayer ' " Father ...its always in unison " OUR Father " Most church services start with this prayer sometimes , just like Jesus taught it. A lovely Western mantra.
Your missing my point . Why follow a verse/ verses that were not intended to follow ? No one but Jews were on Jesus mind when he gave it . This is US whilst Jesus gave that prayer .which part of Matthew 6 in particular do you think is inappropriate to pray if you don't have Jewish flesh? "Thy kingdom come" ?
should i instead pray His kingdom not be manifest on earth as it is in heaven, if i'm goyim after the flesh?
i anticipate you'll say 'kingdom' has to do with an earthly kingdom on the throne of David, and neatly brush aside all the things telling us this is a kingdom that blesses the whole earth, filling it with knowledge of Him.
do you anticipate that i will reply with His own words, that His kingdom is not of this world? ((John 18:36)) that there will not be envying and division among us, as there is in the world? that i might mention when they tried to make Him an earthly king, He departed from them? ((John 6:15))
it's probably significant that it says "Thine is the kingdom" instead of "ours is the kingdom"
interesting; never heard anyone arguing to prevent people from praying these things before.
11¶Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Until the being brought near by his blood and Jesus reconciliation of 2 cor 5 .19 why are we mining verses for us which were not even aimed at us ?
Yes we must understand all scripture. In the right context.
Why do these verses exist ?
24¶But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
25¶Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
26¶But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
Mat 10 .
Mat 15
5¶These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
9Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
10Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
And luke 9.6 ?
The Lords prayer, is it not an answer to the question that the disciples had? They asked as a group. "Teach us to pray"
Are we Gods children? Are we disciples of Jesus?
So what is wrong with the Lords prayer to pray as group ore alone?
Have you wondered why Paul never brings this prayer up for the Church ? Not one mention ? Yet we've made it a national treasure
B
Blackpowderduelist
Guest
Think of the Lord, and using the Lord's prayer as a visualization exercise is two different things.
Written prayers are common among Christianity, and the ancient church, there are many in the bible .
The Lord never tells us to use our imagination to visualize, anywhere.
This is a practice of yoga, (and I don't mean your morning stretches either)
Listen to the words of a reiki practitioner.
"Visualization meditation is the method of picturing positive images, ideas, symbols, or using affirmations and mantras to help calm the mind while the body is in a relaxed state,” says Ariel Van Alstyne, a reiki practitioner and meditation guide."
They do this as part of aligning their chakras they call it channeling energy.
One site that I found in an attempt to be able to explain this to you in a way that you will receive it (maybe), said that they channel the secret magic of the gods.
Christian meditation is the practice of holding the word in your mind by continually thinking about passages that you have read, and or have memorized so that the scripture becomes the arch principal by which we govern our lives and see the things of life. This is not mysticism, it is retraining your mind which is from scripture. "Be transformed by the renewing of your mind" according Romans 12:2.
rather than imagining abstract things, you focus on something concrete,and real, the scriptures.
I see you make an unsubstantiated accusation against me. You show no evidence. This is the work of Satan himself. You should repent of these lies.
B
Blackpowderduelist
Guest
For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!”
Romans 8:15 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/rom.8.15.ESV
To the Romans Paul says that they cry out, "Abba Father", by the spirit of adoption as sons.
Written proof from scripture, that we call God our Father, and it is by the Holy Spirit that we do.
He is not talking to Jews in Rome, but the Christian Church in Rome.
Romans 8:15 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/rom.8.15.ESV
To the Romans Paul says that they cry out, "Abba Father", by the spirit of adoption as sons.
Written proof from scripture, that we call God our Father, and it is by the Holy Spirit that we do.
He is not talking to Jews in Rome, but the Christian Church in Rome.
We dont know he did, only its not mentioned in one of the letters. But he gave it as answer of an question of his disciples.