Unhealthy infatuation?

[Lenoralana]

I just thought I'd try starting a thread or two or promote some thoughtful discussion.. and because I am genuinely curious what other people have to say, from their own wisdom and experiences. ^^;

So here's the question, (especially since I am still struggling with this myself...)

Well... why does infatuation feel like love? Why is it so potent? Why does it sometimes seem like it's not one-sided when it really is?

 

[Subhumanoidal]

I think often with infatuation comes making the person out to be more than they really are. And since we mold the idea of them into this idealized version it draws us to them more. Which in turn gives us a false sense of closeness and connection. We then interpret this as love because that's how we Want to view it. And then we fuel it with fantasies of this false person we've built being with us and making us happy.

 

[cinder]

I just thought I'd try starting a thread or two or promote some thoughtful discussion.. and because I am genuinely curious what other people have to say, from their own wisdom and experiences. ^^;

So here's the question, (especially since I am still struggling with this myself...)

Well... why does infatuation feel like love? Why is it so potent? Why does it sometimes seem like it's not one-sided when it really is?

In a word hormones. More practically for me at least it has to do with possibility and with someone you are just starting to get to know the possibilities for how awesome they could be are pretty much endless. Infatuation isn't entirely a terrible thing; it's just a terrible idea to rely on it as your only advisor for major life decisions.

 

[kinda]

I just thought I'd try starting a thread or two or promote some thoughtful discussion.. and because I am genuinely curious what other people have to say, from their own wisdom and experiences. ^^;

So here's the question, (especially since I am still struggling with this myself...)

Well... why does infatuation feel like love? Why is it so potent? Why does it sometimes seem like it's not one-sided when it really is?

Infatuation is basically one sided, when both sides are infatuated, than it's love?!?! Then after the infatuation ends when two people get tired of each other, than divorce. Sometimes one person is still infatuated when marriage is failing, that's when someone repeats the one sided infatuation drill. Usually when money runs out, one person is splitting, the other person that gets dumped was wondering what love was.

I don't know, that's my guess.

 

[Lanolin]

?
maybe its more obsession?

The Bible tells us what love is,,love is kind, Love is patient, it does not envy, it does not boast, love keeps no record of wrongs. etc

infatuation doesnt seem like love at all, unless your definition of love is somewhat different. admiring someone doesnt mean YOU love them. Or that they love you. Maybe you feel something but its doesnt translate into any action it just makes you kind of possessive. If someone else got your object of affection, you'd probably be jealous.

 

[Lenoralana]

I will say that, in the past, I have been guilty of feeling jealous and possessive whenever the object of my affection seemed closer to someone else besides me. (Also... in some ways, even if it is a common phrase, I dislike the term "object of affection", even if I myself use it, because it in of itself seems to reduce a person from an individual into an item...)

Honestly... one huge thing that has come to my attention in recent years is just how, in some areas at least, I have always been fairly spoiled... and in some areas, I've even been privilaged to people looking the other way or making excuses for me even if I did act up sometimes.

Plus.... while this cannot be used as an excuse forever, certainly not anymore, I still think that part of my problem is that I was raised with a brother who was diagnosed with autism and some form of intellectual deficiency. The point being... since both of us were raised in a rural area and heavily sheltered for the most part, well... when it came to some of my brother's difficulties, he never could share because he didn't understand the concept, plus.... we did go through some trauma in our early youth where an asshole relative teased and taunted him by taking his belongings away and teasing him. So that is probably part of why he got so possessive.

Thing is... again, just due to his mental condition, he would sometimes claim my belongings as his own and I'd either have to fight to get them back (with some firm help from my dad to help make my brother accept that the items were not his to keep) or I'd have to accept that they weren't mine anymore. Again... for various reasons, sharing was just... never a thing in my household growing up. I'd also say it doesn't help that I grew up around a somewhat dominating Dad, and both my parents went through some totalitarian phases. Maybe because they didn't know how else to stay in control of their own household, I dunno. We never had much help, and everybody we were related to seemed to have problems with our chosen lifestyle and didn't know how to interact with an autistic kid who tended to be a bit wild and sometimes kick and scream at the slightest unexpected stimuli, so... what could you do?

In the end... I have been coming to realize that... unfortunately for me and those who've associated with me, I have been rather obsessive and possessive. I get attached. I get something from someone, I want them to keep it up. If that person starts to get more friendly with someone else in a shared social circle than me, I get jealous, because I feel like "That person was MY friend first" or "I want to be more important to that person than anybody else..."

Honestly... I'm not sure how much can be excused due to having OCD and anxiety issues, but I do know for a fact that in almost every case... my crushes or such have definitely been very one-sided infatuations.

It was said in this thread (as it says in the Bible) that love is patient, kind, wants what is best for others, keeps no record of wrong-doing, etc. Honestly... where people have been concerned, I have severely lacked patience at times, I have been very unkind at times over the years, I still hold grudges (though I'm trying to get better about that) and... I'm not sure what to say yet about whether or not I want what's best for others.

In some ways... I can't help but wonder if I was never fully taught how to be considerate of others.... especially since my household never communicated about ANYTHING or considered what another person might want to do. If plans were made, and everybody was excited and looking forward to it, then the plans got changed for ANY reason... well, so what? Just SHUT UP about it. It is what it is, things went this way instead, move on. (It was worse because Dad pulled that crap on Mom multiple times...)

To this day... maybe it is because I am an independent loner and I just want to be left alone for the most part, but... I also think maybe my upbringing and family structure had something to do with it, too. For some reason... it's just difficult for me to really get to know people or see them as they are. And I have been told that any time I do talk to people for long periods, I don't really let the other person talk much and I don't show much interest.

Thing is.... somehow, neither me nor my family has ever been much of a "How was your day today?" kind of person. We talk about nonsense, we talk about TV shows... we gossip, and it's.... just never been easy for some of us to really talk about our issues, especially in very, very sensitive areas.

I am also the kind of person where... I'm not really a great listener, but I want attention and want people to listen to me, at least sometimes. But I can do things for people, like cook or maybe run an errand, though I also prefer it if there is something in it for me, too.

It could be I can't be completely selfless... or maybe I just prefer to run things kinda like a business. I mean... I even treat gift-giving sessions that way. I have been told that I sometimes seem to consider gift-giving, or even friendships, to be like trades and balances.

In the end................ unless maybe someday I can find somebody who doesn't mind these tendencies, well... I'm still coming more and more to the conclusion that I might be better off single. I'm not exactly sure if it would be a good idea to subject someone else to my self-absorbed tendencies, especially since... to be fair, many people would deserve better. Much better.

 

[kinda]

"Numerous studies have shown this. In fact, nearly 70 percent of divorces are initiated by women. This is according to a 2015 research study conducted by the American Sociological Association (ASA) which suggests two-thirds of all divorces are initiated by women. Among college-educated women, this number jumps up to 90%. "

https://www.whitleylawfirmpc.com/3-reasons-why-women-initiate-divorce-more-often-than-men/


With a 50% divorce rate and 70% of the time woman initiate the divorce, why would men want this?

I'm surprised there isn't marriage insurance yet. Just in case your marriage heads South, we can sell you low easy payments, to make sure you can find your way back North.

 

[Lenoralana]

Yeah, I still remember a couple of acquaintances in my town talking a few years ago about how divorces happen 50% of the time these days... and there's a lot of broken families because of it.

Sometimes... I wonder how worth it it really is. Especially since I've known plenty of people who have been effected by divorce, or at the very least, parents who don't get along/don't act like a couple should. My dad's parents were divorced, and... there were some ways in which my parents almost acted like a separated couple/mere roommates for a long time, particularly during my childhood and early twenties... and that even, ultimately, lead to each of them having an affair online before they finally got their act together.

My dad also seemed rather attracted to anyone who'd been divorced or effected by divorce in any way. Prolly cuz, for a long time, he never got his own issues sorted out....

I do feel though that there are some areas where divorce should be supported, in the cases where there is abuse and/or severe neglect going on. Maybe in some extremely rare cases...... I think a divorce should be allowed if one of the partners finds someone else they like better, but ONLY in cases where it can be amicably agreed that the original couple just wasn't right together. It IS possible for someone to marry the wrong person. (Though I would say that that would need to be handled very, very carefully......... and it would require the divorce happening for the right reasons, because the couple is truly incompatible and never should have been married in the first place, not just because "This person is hotter and I need a newer model for this phase of my life". If someone acts like that, they're just plain disloyal and prolly shouldn't be married to anyone... I am just saying there are, sometimes, exceptional circumstances.)

Anyway... I'd never really thought about the idea of marriage insurance. :/ I know you prolly meant that at least somewhat as a joke or quip, but just to consider it seriously for a moment... honestly, I just wonder how the notion would pan out if it was a thing. Would it help prevent men from having to pay their wives alimony because they would have the insurance to fall back on, at least for a while...?

Then again, such a thing might encourage divorces even more. Plus... if there was such a thing, it might make the economy even trickier to navigate because then people would have another expense on top of their auto insurance, medical insurance, etc etc... (I know you probably weren't asking or expecting for such an indepth analysis of your post, just... I like to ponder things that are presented to me sometimes lol)

 

[Lanolin]

well on divorce, its not common in my family, but the one aunty that was divorced was because her husband treat her really badly, and they split up when my cousins were young, and it affected the daughter really badly, she suffered mentally all the rest of her life because of it. One son married and then separated from his wife a few years ago, and the other son didnt marry.

When my cousin (the daughter) died (her mum had already died) the dad came to the funeral, and the one son that was there hardly recongnised him as hed never been in touch with them since he left them as he remarried a couple of times.

The dad was really cut up, but I doubt he even kept in touch with his own daughter since the split. It was sad that divorce does this to people but its not so much divorce thats bad, its the ABUSE that causes it.

 

[BDS]

I just thought I'd try starting a thread or two or promote some thoughtful discussion.. and because I am genuinely curious what other people have to say, from their own wisdom and experiences. ^^;

So here's the question, (especially since I am still struggling with this myself...)

Well... why does infatuation feel like love? Why is it so potent? Why does it sometimes seem like it's not one-sided when it really is?[/QUOT

 

[BDS]

Maybe its Limerence...

 

[cinder]

"Numerous studies have shown this. In fact, nearly 70 percent of divorces are initiated by women. This is according to a 2015 research study conducted by the American Sociological Association (ASA) which suggests two-thirds of all divorces are initiated by women. Among college-educated women, this number jumps up to 90%. "

https://www.whitleylawfirmpc.com/3-reasons-why-women-initiate-divorce-more-often-than-men/


With a 50% divorce rate and 70% of the time woman initiate the divorce, why would men want this?

I'm surprised there isn't marriage insurance yet. Just in case your marriage heads South, we can sell you low easy payments, to make sure you can find your way back North.

Of course both the articles you linked (and both from sites that have a vested interest in being pro divorce) say something about women intiate divorce mostly because the men expect them to pull double duty (full time career and full time homemaker) with little assitance from the man, cheat on them, or expect the woman to put up with other unacceptable behaviors that she no longer has to put up with as a matter of survival. This may indicate that women are too quick to marry a man they perhaps shouldn't, but doesn't indicate that women are eager to divorce at the drop of a hat and a man can't do anything to avoid divorce.

Also that 50% divorce rate statistic is really misleading (if it's even accurrate) as it suggests that all marriages have the same risk of failure when there's a lot that goes in to making a marriage work (and if at the outset of your marriage you can be in agreement on how you're going to handle the three F's (Faith, Finances, and Family (both kids and extended family)) then you're setting yourself up for success (and if you can't come to agreement, you're setting yourself up for failure).

And yeah there is divorce insurance; it's called a prenup (we had a good discussion about signing a prenup a while ago and if you would or would ask someone to, wonder if I can find the thread... . https://christianchat.com/christian...r-future-spouse-to-sign-a-prenup-poll.135790/ ) Wow that was older than I though, I must be getting old myself.

 

[kinda]

Of course both the articles you linked (and both from sites that have a vested interest in being pro divorce) say something about women intiate divorce mostly because the men expect them to pull double duty (full time career and full time homemaker) with little assitance from the man, cheat on them, or expect the woman to put up with other unacceptable behaviors that she no longer has to put up with as a matter of survival. This may indicate that women are too quick to marry a man they perhaps shouldn't, but doesn't indicate that women are eager to divorce at the drop of a hat and a man can't do anything to avoid divorce.

Also that 50% divorce rate statistic is really misleading (if it's even accurrate) as it suggests that all marriages have the same risk of failure when there's a lot that goes in to making a marriage work (and if at the outset of your marriage you can be in agreement on how you're going to handle the three F's (Faith, Finances, and Family (both kids and extended family)) then you're setting yourself up for success (and if you can't come to agreement, you're setting yourself up for failure).

And yeah there is divorce insurance; it's called a prenup (we had a good discussion about signing a prenup a while ago and if you would or would ask someone to, wonder if I can find the thread... . https://christianchat.com/christian...r-future-spouse-to-sign-a-prenup-poll.135790/ ) Wow that was older than I though, I must be getting old myself.

Of all the people I personally know, I can only recall one time that the man started the divorce. From my experience it's far higher than 70% that woman initiate the divorce, but that's my experience. Currently, this guy at work is getting divorced, because his wife wants out. She is seeing, according to the guy at work, her daughter's friend's dad, while they are still married.

From your personal experience from people you know, what would you say, the ratio is?

 

[seoulsearch]

Of all the people I personally know, I can only recall one time that the man started the divorce. From my experience it's far higher than 70% that woman initiate the divorce, but that's my experience. Currently, this guy at work is getting divorced, because his wife wants out. She is seeing, according to the guy at work, her daughter's friend's dad, while they are still married.

From your personal experience from people you know, what would you say, the ratio is?

I've told this story before:

Once upon a time, I went to work on what I thought was a typical day. I came home and soon found that half the house was gone, and of course, so was he. Some time later, I received papers in the mail with the cheery headline, "You Are Being Sued For Divorce."

I later moved out of the area, but one of my friends called me after some time had passed. It was something like 2 in the morning, and as soon as I picked up, she said, "There's something you should know." My husband had a secret relationship with a girl we worked with, and my friends had seen them in public, holding hands. Since I didn't live in the area anymore and he was divorcing me, they finally decided to go public officially.

Had that friend not called and told me, I would have had to listen to Christians who hollered at me about "not having a Biblical divorce" for the rest of my life, because I would have had no way of knowing. (I find myself wanting to tell more of the whole sad story, but I shall refrain.)

The reason I'm even mentioning this is because I then went through a myriad of Bible classes and programs trying to pull my life back together, doing what all my fellow Christians told me to do. I even went through "Divorce Care" -- twice -- and in my experience, the vast majority of divorces were initiated by actions of the men, usually because they had fallen for a younger women, but refused to legally divorce their wives out of fear of financial or family loss.

I have to wonder if a person's experiences might also be a bit gender-biased. Women are typically going to know/speak with more divorced women who were left behind, and men are going to know/speak with more men who may have had that experience.

I know of one woman who did indeed initiate the divorce -- because her husband made a lot of money, was sleeping with his secretary, and told his wife that he was going to do whatever he wanted since he made all the coin (a 6-figure salary at that.) He thought he held all the cards because she was a stay-at-home to their 4 children and hadn't worked since before the kids were born.

Rather than put up with that, she divorced him, got a job, and raised her 4 kids completely herself (and, feeling she had betrayed him for being able to live without him, he refused to pay any child support.)

The other woman I know who initiated a divorce did so because 1. her husband had a sexting affair with an old girlfriend, though they had not yet met up in person (and he was open about it, flaunting it in her face,) and 2. he has a substance abuse problem for which he refused any help, and was becoming increasingly violent towards her.

He wouldn't divorce her because he couldn't hold a job due to his addictions, and he needed her for her job.

If the statistic of over 70% of women initiating divorce is correct, I would be interested to know the conditions were. And I'm certainly not trying to say that it can't happen to men at all, or that men can't be abused, or that men don't suffer from finding out their wives are cheating on them.

I'm just saying that in my experience, a lot of women who started divorces were in situations where their husbands were using them for something, and wouldn't initiate a divorce themselves. These men thought they could have the benefits of both holding on to their girlfriends and wife at the same time, didn't want to have to pay any money for child or spousal support, and/or just flat-out needed their wives to pay for their bills.

However, again, this could be a more gender-centric observation, as I've had the opportunity to speak with far more divorced women than divorced men.

Whenever I read a statistic, I am always wondering what's really going on.

A statistic might look like a large number, but there is always a story -- from many perspectives -- behind each one.

 

[kinda]

I've told this story before:

Once upon a time, I went to work on what I thought was a typical day. I came home and soon found that half the house was gone, and of course, so was he. Some time later, I received papers in the mail with the cheery headline, "You Are Being Sued For Divorce."

I later moved out of the area, but one of my friends called me after some time had passed. It was something like 2 in the morning, and as soon as I picked up, she said, "There's something you should know." My husband had a secret relationship with a girl we worked with, and my friends had seen them in public, holding hands. Since I didn't live in the area anymore and he was divorcing me, they finally decided to go public officially.

Had that friend not called and told me, I would have had to listen to Christians who hollered at me about "not having a Biblical divorce" for the rest of my life, because I would have had no way of knowing. (I find myself wanting to tell more of the whole sad story, but I shall refrain.)

The reason I'm even mentioning this is because I then went through a myriad of Bible classes and programs trying to pull my life back together, doing what all my fellow Christians told me to do. I even went through "Divorce Care" -- twice -- and in my experience, the vast majority of divorces were initiated by actions of the men, usually because they had fallen for a younger women, but refused to legally divorce their wives out of fear of financial or family loss.

I have to wonder if a person's experiences might also be a bit gender-biased. Women are typically going to know/speak with more divorced women who were left behind, and men are going to know/speak with more men who may have had that experience.

I know of one woman who did indeed initiate the divorce -- because her husband made a lot of money, was sleeping with his secretary, and told his wife that he was going to do whatever he wanted since he made all the coin (a 6-figure salary at that.) He thought he held all the cards because she was a stay-at-home to their 4 children and hadn't worked since before the kids were born.

Rather than put up with that, she divorced him, got a job, and raised her 4 kids completely herself (and, feeling she had betrayed him for being able to live without him, he refused to pay any child support.)

The other woman I know who initiated a divorce did so because 1. her husband had a sexting affair with an old girlfriend, though they had not yet met up in person (and he was open about it, flaunting it in her face,) and 2. he has a substance abuse problem for which he refused any help, and was becoming increasingly violent towards her.

He wouldn't divorce her because he couldn't hold a job due to his addictions, and he needed her for her job.

If the statistic of over 70% of women initiating divorce is correct, I would be interested to know the conditions were. And I'm certainly not trying to say that it can't happen to men at all, or that men can't be abused, or that men don't suffer from finding out their wives are cheating on them.

I'm just saying that in my experience, a lot of women who started divorces were in situations where their husbands were using them for something, and wouldn't initiate a divorce themselves. These men thought they could have the benefits of both holding on to their girlfriends and wife at the same time, didn't want to have to pay any money for child or spousal support, and/or just flat-out needed their wives to pay for their bills.

However, again, this could be a more gender-centric observation, as I've had the opportunity to speak with far more divorced women than divorced men.

Whenever I read a statistic, I am always wondering what's really going on.

A statistic might look like a large number, but there is always a story -- from many perspectives -- behind each one.

Valid point, so what would the ratio be from your experience of who initiated the divorce?

I never talked to someone who got divorced, that said, it was their fault. So, my ratio for who's fault it was, it's always the other person. So, 100% it's the other person's fault for divorce.

 

[cinder]

Of all the people I personally know, I can only recall one time that the man started the divorce. From my experience it's far higher than 70% that woman initiate the divorce, but that's my experience. Currently, this guy at work is getting divorced, because his wife wants out. She is seeing, according to the guy at work, her daughter's friend's dad, while they are still married.

From your personal experience from people you know, what would you say, the ratio is?

I'm thankful that I have very little personal experience with divorce. And even the divorces I do know about, I'm much more likely to know why the couple was divorcing than who initiated it. I think part of that is because I don't care who initiates it; I care much more about the underlying patterns that cause divorces to happen in the first place because most of the time, the process of not longer loving and being willing to live and work with your spouse to save the relationship has started long before anyone files paperwork.

 

[seoulsearch]

Valid point, so what would the ratio be from your experience of who initiated the divorce?

I never talked to someone who got divorced, that said, it was their fault. So, my ratio for who's fault it was, it's always the other person. So, 100% it's the other person's fault for divorce.

I know you were asking Cinder for a ratio as well...

I can't come up with any exact numbers, but I would say that 95% of the divorced people I have talked to have been women, and maybe 5% were men. If I remember correctly, 100% said that it was their spouse who left them, for one reason or another.

When the wound is very fresh (and "very" can still mean decades,) it's easy to see everything the other person did. For the past several years, I've given it a lot of thought to the things I did as well.

Good gravy, I'm sure most of the people who've ever read any of my posts can pick up on how difficult of a person I am!

My ex never spoke to me again after our court date, so I never knew what happened to him. I prayed for years that he would change his mind and find me. I remember that even after 10 years, I went through this time of fervently praying that some how, some way, we would look for each other and get married again. After all, don't we Christians believe in miracles?

God eventually gave me an answer . The one time I was on Facebook for just a few months, someone found me and told me he had been remarried for a while and now had a family. God was telling me that the door was permanently closed and to let it all go.

Our divorce is the biggest regret of my life, and if I could go back and try to fix or change everything that I did wrong and handled in the wrong way, I surely would.


@Lenoralana -- I apologize for derailing your thread so far off topic -- let me try to redirect my thoughts:

For me, infatuation might feel like love because it's an escape from the daily drear of everyday life. Instead of just following the same routine every day like a robot, now there's a text, call, or message from a special someone to look forward to. A smile, a wink, a laugh and a joke... A word of affection... Supposedly just for you. It sure is a heck of a lot better and much more exciting than the bland pile of work we all face every day.

It's hard not to get addicted to that, especially when one's innermost soul has felt love-starved for what feels like an eternity.

It gets to a point where it doesn't matter if it's just an "approximation" of love -- for me at least, it's a whole lot better than feeling and UNLOVED, and that's why it's so easy (for me at least) to fall for.

And even beyond infatuation, sometimes a person feels so devoid and desperate for connection, even just a simple gesture of attention -- even it's obligatory -- can become (what feels like) an instant attraction.

 

[kinda]

I'm thankful that I have very little personal experience with divorce. And even the divorces I do know about, I'm much more likely to know why the couple was divorcing than who initiated it. I think part of that is because I don't care who initiates it; I care much more about the underlying patterns that cause divorces to happen in the first place because most of the time, the process of not longer loving and being willing to live and work with your spouse to save the relationship has started long before anyone files paperwork.

Just want to let you know, these statements, as well as your previous post, make any argument against the article I posted. So, maybe the statistic is correct?!?!

Also, it further concretes the position, that it's always the other person's fault, on why a divorce happens. Disagree?

I wasn't trying to start a witch hunt, we all know, we all sin.

I will see my way out of this discussion, since it really has no bearing on my life what's so ever. Staying single is the only insurance, to not getting divorced to a woman. End of discussion.

 

[kinda]

I can't come up with any exact numbers, but I would say that 95% of the divorced people I have talked to have been women, and maybe 5% were men. If I remember correctly, 100% said that it was their spouse who left them, for one reason or another.

Agreed!

 

[Lenoralana]

I'm just popping in real quick to say I'm not the slightest bit offended at anything derailing off-topic, cuz I figure if there's semi-related topics that will help out other people to talk about them, it's all good. I haven't seen any drama or flame wars, so I'm not bothered.

I will also just say that so far, even if I haven't been here long and I have only posted in one category, I still find this forum rather refreshing.

I once frequented a forum many years ago where people mostly just acted like uppity snobs and couldn't handle the slightest bit of criticism and often resorted to childish behavior... and worse, the mods and admins were sometimes just as bad, or they cracked down on discussion if it got too "off topic" and they even restricted how many threads people could create or what they could talk about.

Then there was another forum where I actually got temporarily banned for posting too many threads.

So far, I'm just relieved to see that this seems to be a forum where people are allowed to be human and have organic discussion, and things aren't too tightly regulated. ^^;