Understanding unconditional election

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Jordon said:
The question was asked not on the basis of answering the question, but on the basis of trying to make you see a question why did Jesus do his Fathers will.
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So, there is no scripture you can point to that my answer contradicts. But you don't accept my answer, because you are not interested in my answer, though biblically sound, unless it agrees with your own opinions, which I have demonstrated to be biblically questionable.

You don't seem interested in seeking any truth, friend, that does not fit your already set beliefs.
 
PaulThomson said:
You don't seem interested in seeking any truth, friend, that does not fit your already set beliefs.
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I totally agree with your statement here -----He wants to be right ---He is not interested in learning Spiritual truth --- cause he thinks he knows the Truth ---so we need take Jesus' advice and shake the dust off our feet ---and allow this Fellow to think he has all the answers -------

Jesus said ----


Matthew 10:14-15

Amplified Bible

14 Whoever does not welcome you, nor listen to your message, as you leave that house or city, [a]shake the dust [of it] off your feet [in contempt, breaking all ties].

15 I assure you and most solemnly say to you, it will be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of [b]Sodom and Gomorrah than for that city [since it rejected the Messiah’s messenger].
 
studentoftheword said:
I totally agree with your statement here -----He wants to be right ---He is not interested in learning Spiritual truth --- cause he thinks he knows the Truth ---so we need take Jesus' advice and shake the dust off our feet ---and allow this Fellow to think he has all the answers -------

Jesus said ----


Matthew 10:14-15

Amplified Bible

14 Whoever does not welcome you, nor listen to your message, as you leave that house or city, [a]shake the dust [of it] off your feet [in contempt, breaking all ties].

15 I assure you and most solemnly say to you, it will be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of [b]Sodom and Gomorrah than for that city [since it rejected the Messiah’s messenger].
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I don't believe your total agreement of him not answering a valid question is warranted to say I'm not interested.
 
Jordon said:
Why Did Jesus do his fathers will
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I've answered your question twice already. This is the third time.


PaulThomson said:
You asked:
Why would Jesus want and desire to do his God's will?

I answered:

Because that was the plan of God when the Son and the Father and the Holy Spirit agreed to sending the Son into the world in the form of a human zygote to grow into a baby boy, and to grow up into a man, who would continue to love all mankind even while He allowed other humans to kill him. The crucifixion was the Son's idea. Why would he not want/desire/will to do what He had planned with the rest of the Godhead to do in order to convince mankind that God really wants to reconcile with mankind? But by the same token, being a human being subject to the horrors of excruciating pain through torture, why would He not also, on an instinctive level, want/desire/ will to avoid going to the cross?

What in my answer is incompatible with any scripture?
 
Jordon said:
It's looks like the speaker is saying God knows in advance who will believe in Christ.
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God's grace is not contingent on who will believe but on who He chooses. God cannot fail, so who He chooses will not only believe, but also be changed (born again). John 3: 3 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Too many believe, but have not been changed and continue in their ways. John 1: 13 Who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
 
PaulThomson said:
I've answered your question twice already. This is the third time.


PaulThomson said:
You asked:
Why would Jesus want and desire to do his God's will?

I answered:

Because that was the plan of God when the Son and the Father and the Holy Spirit agreed to sending the Son into the world in the form of a human zygote to grow into a baby boy, and to grow up into a man, who would continue to love all mankind even while He allowed other humans to kill him. The crucifixion was the Son's idea. Why would he not want/desire/will to do what He had planned with the rest of the Godhead to do in order to convince mankind that God really wants to reconcile with mankind? But by the same token, being a human being subject to the horrors of excruciating pain through torture, why would He not also, on an instinctive level, want/desire/ will to avoid going to the cross?

What in my answer is incompatible with any scripture?
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again your including want and desire

Again I'll ask why did Jesus a little baby do his will from the begining of his childhood and through his childhood Which was he never sinned
 
PaulThomson said:
I've answered your question twice already. This is the third time.


PaulThomson said:
You asked:
Why would Jesus want and desire to do his God's will?

I answered:

Because that was the plan of God when the Son and the Father and the Holy Spirit agreed to sending the Son into the world in the form of a human zygote to grow into a baby boy, and to grow up into a man, who would continue to love all mankind even while He allowed other humans to kill him. The crucifixion was the Son's idea. Why would he not want/desire/will to do what He had planned with the rest of the Godhead to do in order to convince mankind that God really wants to reconcile with mankind? But by the same token, being a human being subject to the horrors of excruciating pain through torture, why would He not also, on an instinctive level, want/desire/ will to avoid going to the cross?

What in my answer is incompatible with any scripture?
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James 4:15

New International Version



15 Instead, you ought to say, “If it is the Lord’s will, we will live and do this or that.”


This touches on the idea of divine Providence

Devine providence is typically seen as guiding will or controlling will or a supreme will or a benevolent will driven by Good

Basically all included in his sovereign will
 
decipher said:
God's grace is not contingent on who will believe but on who He chooses. God cannot fail, so who He chooses will not only believe, but also be changed (born again). John 3: 3 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Too many believe, but have not been changed and continue in their ways. John 1: 13 Who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
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It not contingent on who will believe I accept that, it's contingent of God knowing who does believe and loves his son is the message from the speaker, and the reason why God chooses
 
Jordon said:
James 4:15

New International Version



15 Instead, you ought to say, “If it is the Lord’s will, we will live and do this or that.”


This touches on the idea of divine Providence

Devine providence is typically seen as guiding will or controlling will or a supreme will or a benevolent will driven by Good

Basically all included in his sovereign will
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You seem to be in some form of psychosis, unable to communicate meaningfully with people who do not share and confirm your own delusion. You need to get outside your Calvinist bubble and consider realities not defined by Calvinism.
 
PaulThomson said:
You seem to be in some form of psychosis, unable to communicate meaningfully with people who do not share and confirm your own delusion. You need to get outside your Calvinist bubble and consider realities not defined by Calvinism.
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well I have a saying that when the cockerel has crowed more than 3 times, it's time to do my cockerel dance 🤐
 
Jordon said:
well I have a saying that when the cockerel has crowed more than 3 times, it's time to do my cockerel dance 🤐
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Psychosis symptoms involve a break from reality, primarily seen as hallucinations (seeing, hearing, smelling things not there) and delusions (strong, false beliefs), alongside disorganized thinking/speech (jumbled thoughts, switching topics) and unusual behavior, like social withdrawal, poor self-care, paranoia, or intense emotional changes, often stemming from mental illness, trauma, or substance use, requiring prompt help.


Core Symptoms (Positive Symptoms)
  • Hallucinations: Perceiving things not present, such as hearing voices, seeing figures, or smelling odors others can't.
  • Delusions: Firmly held false beliefs, like paranoia (believing you're being harmed) or grandiosity (believing you have special powers).
  • Disorganized Thinking/Speech:
    Difficulty focusing, jumbled thoughts, rapid speech, or abruptly losing train of thought
    .
 
PaulThomson said:
Psychosis symptoms involve a break from reality, primarily seen as hallucinations (seeing, hearing, smelling things not there) and delusions (strong, false beliefs), alongside disorganized thinking/speech (jumbled thoughts, switching topics) and unusual behavior, like social withdrawal, poor self-care, paranoia, or intense emotional changes, often stemming from mental illness, trauma, or substance use, requiring prompt help.


Core Symptoms (Positive Symptoms)
  • Hallucinations: Perceiving things not present, such as hearing voices, seeing figures, or smelling odors others can't.
  • Delusions: Firmly held false beliefs, like paranoia (believing you're being harmed) or grandiosity (believing you have special powers).
  • Disorganized Thinking/Speech:
    Difficulty focusing, jumbled thoughts, rapid speech, or abruptly losing train of thought
    .
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since when did you become my shrink, and a online Psychic shrink at that, ?

I think you should probably eat a bar of soap.
 
Jordon said:
Comprehend is the ability to understand.

And also you may not comprehend something until you have comprehended something else.

Basically you cant be all knowing Like God is, neither can you gain wisdom from him, unless you seek him.

The simple question I'm asking you is this.

Why would Jesus want and desire to do his will ?

Jesus was doing his will from the moment he was born.

He never sinned he performed miracles he healed,

There was no wanting and desiring to do His fathers will about it.

He was doing his fathers will.

His father's will was in him.
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Congtatulations, Jordan. You've made it to my ignore list, because I am getting no rational, thoughtful, relevant, considered responses from you to my posts. And there seems to be no chance of that happening.
 
PaulThomson said:
Congtatulations, Jordan. You've made it to my ignore list, because I am getting no rational, thoughtful, relevant, considered responses from you to my posts. And there seems to be no chance of that happening.
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well if it by your will I'm not surprised. goodbye friend,
 
What the lord wills will prevail.

So if the lord says you can do nothing without me that what his word means. But it means to Mr dead head, are you calling me a robot, but it means you should do all things according to me.

It's the only way you know what your doing is right.

But the best part is, if your doing right by him it means his will is controlling your flesh.

That's called a controlling will
 
Jordon said:
It not contingent on who will believe I accept that, it's contingent of God knowing who does believe and loves his son is the message from the speaker, and the reason why God chooses
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You are puting the cart in front of the horse. You state that salvation is not contingent on who will believe and at the same time you state that God is choosing those who believe and love his son. 1 Cor 1: 29-31 That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of (by) him (the Father) are ye in Christ Jesus, who of (by) God (the Father) is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption; That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. These verses emphasize that salvation is entirely a gift from God's grace, and no human can boast or take credit for it in God's (the Father's) presence. That is why the road to damnation is wide. It is traveled by people who want to take credit for their salvation instead of giving all the credit to God the Father for choosing them and changing them (born again). No human can say, "I did it! I believed and did the right things! My heart was right so that God (the Father) was able to choose me to salvation! ". Again, the road to damnation is filled with people who mentally believe, but have not experienced a change in their beings (born again). This is what the speaker was saying. Sadly, many people in their posts reveal themselves as not being born again simply by their rude and disrespectful comments concerning the speaker and other posters. I will not judge, but I will pray for them.
 
decipher said:
You are puting the cart in front of the horse. You state that salvation is not contingent on who will believe and at the same time you state that God is choosing those who believe and love his son. 1 Cor 1: 29-31 That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of (by) him (the Father) are ye in Christ Jesus, who of (by) God (the Father) is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption; That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. These verses emphasize that salvation is entirely a gift from God's grace, and no human can boast or take credit for it in God's (the Father's) presence. That is why the road to damnation is wide. It is traveled by people who want to take credit for their salvation instead of giving all the credit to God the Father for choosing them and changing them (born again). No human can say, "I did it! I believed and did the right things! My heart was right so that God (the Father) was able to choose me to salvation! ". Again, the road to damnation is filled with people who mentally believe, but have not experienced a change in their beings (born again). This is what the speaker was saying. Sadly, many people in their posts reveal themselves as not being born again simply by their rude and disrespectful comments concerning the speaker and other posters. I will not judge, but I will pray for them.
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I have a good teaching in this by a good teacher to

John 3:16 and Man’s Ability to Choose God

It is ironic that in the same chapter, indeed in the same context, in which our Lord teaches the utter necessity of rebirth to even see the kingdom, let alone choose it, non-Reformed views find one of their main proof texts to argue that fallen man retains a small island of ability to choose Christ. It is John 3:16: “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.”

What does this famous verse teach about fallen man’s ability to choose Christ? The answer, simply, is nothing. The argument used by non-Reformed people is that the text teaches that everybody in the world has it in their power to accept or reject Christ. A careful look at the text reveals, however, that it teaches nothing of the kind. What the text teaches is that everyone who believes in Christ will be saved. Whoever does A (believes) will receive B (everlasting life). The text says nothing, absolutely nothing, about who will ever believe. It says nothing about fallen man’s natural moral ability. Reformed people and non-Reformed people both heartily agree that all who believe will be saved. They heartily disagree about who has the ability to believe.

Some may reply, “All right. The text does not explicitly teach that fallen men have the ability to choose Christ without being reborn first, but it certainly implies that.” I am not willing to grant that the text even implies such a thing. However, even if it did it would make no difference in the debate. Why not? Our rule of interpreting Scripture is that implications drawn from the Scripture must always be subordinate to the explicit teaching of Scripture. We must never, never, never reverse this to subordinate the explicit teaching of Scripture to possible implications drawn from Scripture. This rule is shared by both Reformed and non-Reformed thinkers.

As long as he remains in the flesh, unregenerate, he will never choose Christ.​

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