Understanding the Trinity as a doctrine.

[Nehemiah6]

I wonder why is it so important to you.

This is not a matter of what is important to me personally. But it is important to all who would be saved that they believe what God has revealed about Himself and Christ. Except a person believes wholeheartedly that Jesus is God -- I AM -- who became Man to die for our sins, he or she cannot be saved. That is precisely what Jesus said (John 8:24). And unless a person believes wholeheartedly that when he is baptized it is in the name of the triune Godhead - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit -- then his baptism is of little value since there is unbelief in his heart. This too is exactly what Jesus said (Mt 28:19)

 

[justbyfaith]

This is not a matter of what is important to me personally. But it is important to all who would be saved that they believe what God has revealed about Himself and Christ. Except a person believes wholeheartedly that Jesus is God -- I AM -- who became Man to die for our sins, he or she cannot be saved. That is precisely what Jesus said (John 8:24). And unless a person believes wholeheartedly that when he is baptized it is in the name of the triune Godhead - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit -- then his baptism is of little value since there is unbelief in his heart. This too is exactly what Jesus said (Mt 28:19)

As long as when you say "the triune Godhead", you are taking into account the "une" part of it...that God is one (James 2:19)...and that you are not making the mistake, while hiding behind the label of "Trinitarian", of believing in three Gods...which is Tritheism.

This occurs most often in those who believe that the Persons in the Trinity are separate rather than distinct.

i.e. the Father is not the Son is not the Holy Ghost.

God is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4, John 4:23-24) and Jesus is the incarnation of that Spirit.

 

[CorrectiveLens]

If this is in answer to my "concern", I would not say I am sad of the truth, I was just concerned by how intense this discussion gets. I wonder why is it so important to you.

God desires worship in Spirit and in Truth. Check out the beginning of my original post. John 17:3

 

[CorrectiveLens]

The Son is distinct from the Father in that the Father is a Spirit inhabiting eternity without flesh; while the Son is the incarnation of that Spirit. So, He is a distinct Person while He is also the same Person.

The Father, inhabiting eternity, exists throughout eternity before He ascended to take on an added nature of human flesh; thus subjecting Himself to time and space.

This is how the verses that you have quoted above can be reconciled with the concept that Jesus is in fact the Lord God.

The Word ( the Christ) was in the beginning with God. God is eternal with no beginning and no end. That means that the beginning refers to the beginning that starts with the creation of the Spirit who is the Christ. Christ existed before He became human. That is why the Christ in human form kept saying that He was the First and the Last (alpha and omega). If He was the first creation, then He didn't have an eternal past like the Father.

 

[justbyfaith]

The Word ( the Christ) was in the beginning with God. God is eternal with no beginning and no end. That means that the beginning refers to the beginning that starts with the creation of the Spirit who is the Christ. Christ existed before He became human. That is why the Christ in human form kept saying that He was the First and the Last (alpha and omega). If He was the first creation, then He didn't have an eternal past like the Father.

There is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4) who is God (John 4:23-24).

God the Father, in descending into time to take on an added nature of human flesh, did not VACATE ETERNITY.

So, when He ascended after having descended, He ascended to exist side-by-side with His pre-incarnate form; as He ascended also to fill all things (Ephesians 4:10) and thus in ascending He ascended to inhabit eternity (Isaiah 57:15) once again, as a Spirit (even the same Spirit, Ephesians 4:4)) existing side-by-side with His pre-incarnate Spirit form (even the same Spirit).

Thus, in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God (John 1:1).

And yet, there is absolutely ONE God (James 2:19).

 

[justbyfaith]

God desires worship in Spirit and in Truth. Check out the beginning of my original post. John 17:3

In John 17:3, the Greek word for "and" is "kai", which can be translated as "even".

 

[TheLearner]

I have not read the whole thread, but can anyone tell me why this doctrine is important for their daily life with God ?
And, if possible, can this doctrine get you lost or saved if you get it wrong ?

I have my personnal stand on these questions, but reading some posts I had the feeling that this was a huge thing and I was concerned on what did it truly mean to you.

Concerning Jesus being God there are false Christs. If one is not worshiping and asked the true Jesus into their hearts they are still loss and in their sins thus unsaved and not going to heaven.

 

[justbyfaith]

As long as when you say "the triune Godhead", you are taking into account the "une" part of it...that God is one (James 2:19)...and that you are not making the mistake, while hiding behind the label of "Trinitarian", of believing in three Gods...which is Tritheism.

This occurs most often in those who believe that the Persons in the Trinity are separate rather than distinct.

i.e. the Father is not the Son is not the Holy Ghost.

God is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4, John 4:23-24) and Jesus is the incarnation of that Spirit.

There is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4) who is God (John 4:23-24).

God the Father, in descending into time to take on an added nature of human flesh, did not VACATE ETERNITY.

So, when He ascended after having descended, He ascended to exist side-by-side with His pre-incarnate form; as He ascended also to fill all things (Ephesians 4:10) and thus in ascending He ascended to inhabit eternity (Isaiah 57:15) once again, as a Spirit (even the same Spirit, Ephesians 4:4)) existing side-by-side with His pre-incarnate Spirit form (even the same Spirit).

Thus, in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God (John 1:1).

And yet, there is absolutely ONE God (James 2:19).

Why the disagreements, @TheLearner?

 

[unelie]

If one is not worshiping and asked the true Jesus into their hearts they are still loss and in their sins thus unsaved and not going to heaven.

Except a person believes wholeheartedly that Jesus is God -- I AM -- who became Man to die for our sins, he or she cannot be saved.

Wow you guys believe that this doctrine is a salvation issue !! I had no idea. I better understand why you get so much into this discussion.

To be honest, I believe there is one God, I believe the Father is God, Jesus is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. I believe God is one, in 3 persons. But... I don't think this doctrine gets you to heaven or is absolutely necessary for heaven, I think that would be salvation by theology, and not by grace through faith. Indeed, Abram did not know this complex doctrine, but he was justified by his faith.

But I respect that you see things differently - I can understand how you got to this conclusion. The verses you mentionned could lead to such conclusion. I just did not know people actually believe this was essential for their salvation.

 

[oyster67]

Galatians
4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

 

[TheLearner]

Why the disagreements, @TheLearner?

I have the impression you are teaching Sabellianism friend.

 

[justbyfaith]

I have the impression you are teaching Sabellianism friend.

I don't think so; while I am not very learned as to what Sabellianism even is.

I believe that I am emphasizing the Oneness of the Lord in the doctrine of the Trinity and that is all.

 

[justbyfaith]

Wow you guys believe that this doctrine is a salvation issue !! I had no idea. I better understand why you get so much into this discussion.

To be honest, I believe there is one God, I believe the Father is God, Jesus is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. I believe God is one, in 3 persons. But... I don't think this doctrine gets you to heaven or is absolutely necessary for heaven, I think that would be salvation by theology, and not by grace through faith. Indeed, Abram did not know this complex doctrine, but he was justified by his faith.

But I respect that you see things differently - I can understand how you got to this conclusion. The verses you mentionned could lead to such conclusion. I just did not know people actually believe this was essential for their salvation.

Yes, John 8:24 at the very least tells us that believing in the doctrine of Christ's Deity is essential for salvation (while in some cases, the doctrine of the Trinity may be counted as a slightly different doctrine).

 

[justbyfaith]

+++

 

[Friend]

This does not look like a Trinity to me nor does the vine and the branches

Jesus will be saying “Come up Here!” so we can get out of this place

Jesus has a mystery and says "the seven lampstands are the seven churches"

Rev 1:20 “As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches

Jesus says He "walks among the seven golden lamp stands"

Rev 2:1“To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: The One who holds the seven stars in His right hand, the One who walks among the seven golden lampstands, says this:

Now Jesus is saying He "has the Seven Spirits of God". We see where they come from and where they go.

Rev 3:1 “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars, says this: ‘I know your deeds, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.

There is a door open in heaven and a Voice like a trumpet "Says Come Up Here"
"After These Things"

Rev 4:1 After these things I looked, and behold, a door open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said, "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after these things.

After a reception of lightning and thunder Seven Lamps of Fire appear in front of the throne; and look what it says they are. Now the lamps that were on earth are before the throne, and do you remember what Jesus said the lamps were: that's right He said they were the churches; But now they are being called the Seven Spirits of God. And it just keeps getting better.

Rev 4:5 Out from the throne come flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder. And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God

Let's do a little review: Jesus said that the seven golden lamps on earth are the churches. Then after a voice like the sound of trumpet says come up here, and after a reception of lightning and thunder coming out from the throne: now the seven lamps are in heaven, but now they are being called the Seven Spirit of God. So you can look at the previous verse to see that it's all true. But move forward is the greatest thing we could ever see. So now we know the Seven Spirits of God are the Seven Churches.

Rev 5:6 And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, that were sent out into all the earth.

So there we have it. The greatest thing one could ever imagine: Right there in the Head of the Lamb is Seven Eyes that are said to be the Seven Spirits of God that were sent out into ALL THE EARTH. So We are on The Throne Just As Jesus Promised We would be. Therefore, We are Raptured off of the Earth and seated on Our throne, Immediately before all the Murder and Mayhem begins.

Below is the Promise.

Rev 3:21-22 ‘He who overcomes, I will grant to Him to sit down with Me on My throne, just as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

Dan 7:13“I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, One like a Son of Man was coming on the clouds of heaven. And He came up to be presented before the Ancient of Days.

People ask where the Rapture is in the old Testament. It's in the Little Book/Daniel where we see many aspects of Revelations.

Rev 3:22 ‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches.’” ​

 

[CS1]

this thread is getting more ridiculous as it goes on. One big thing I see lacking by some here is Reverence and Respect. Speaking profanely about Jesus and even saying or suggesting Jesus being God, he is false Christs. Foolishness.


Never in my time as a Christian have ever seen such willingness to explain what can't be fully understood. Many here have spoken about the Eternal Godhead in such a way, I cringe when I read it. Some are so willing to speak profanely about Jesus as they continue to speak they are getting closer to Blasphemy. I would recommend those who hold to the doctrine of the Trinity not to cast your pearls and don't be sucked into foolishness about the Eternal Godhead which known can fully know. State from the word of God, as many of did, and, why the trinity is Biblical as many of you have. Those who disagree don't have the intellect to look outside their own carnal understanding.


The Doctrine of the Trinity is a concept that is seen in the word of God. We all must approach the Eternal Godhead with reverence and fear when speaking of the One true God. Jesus is God because He said he was the word of God says he is God. The Holy Spirit is God, and The Father is God. Each one is described and seen in the word of God. A fool has said in his heart there is no God.

 

[justbyfaith]

I think that the determining factor in our understanding is that Jesus was not eternally begotten but was begotten in the incarnation (Luke 1:35).

 

[CS1]

I think that the determining factor in our understanding is that Jesus was not eternally begotten but was begotten in the incarnation (Luke 1:35).

what does that even mean?

In Christian theology, the incarnation is the belief that Jesus Christ, the second person of the Trinity, also known as God the Son or the Logos, "was made flesh" by being conceived in the womb of a woman, the Virgin Mary.


"embodiment of God in the person of Christ," from Late Latin incarnationem.

 

[justbyfaith]

what does that even mean?

In Christian theology, the incarnation is the belief that Jesus Christ, the second person of the Trinity, also known as God the Son or the Logos, "was made flesh" by being conceived in the womb of a woman, the Virgin Mary.


"embodiment of God in the person of Christ," from Late Latin incarnationem.

The reality is that the first Person of the Trinity became the 2nd when He took on human flesh (Isaiah 9:6).

It was not 1/3 of God who descended to become a Man;

And neither was it a 2nd God.

It was God Himself.

 

[CS1]

The reality is that the first Person of the Trinity became the 2nd when He took on human flesh (Isaiah 9:6).

It was not 1/3 of God who descended to become a Man;

And neither was it a 2nd God.

It was God Himself.

You don't know that, and the word of God doesn't say that.

Jesus said before Abraham was I AM. You are saying Jesus created. IF the second Person of the Trinity became so after He took on Flesh then he was never Eternal.

The word of God says Christ is Eternal, as John Chapter one States. You are greatly errored in your comment.