Understanding the Incarnation

[CS1]

Let’s investigate and see if we can possibly get a solid understanding
of the Incarnation (birth) of Jesus Christ.

You will see below … In the beginning, the Members of the Holy Trinity
were God the Father, God the Word, and God the Holy Spirit.

Many churches teach that the Son of God (Jesus Christ) came down from heaven
to be the Messiah, the Savior. But, this is just NOT true because Jesus was
created (or formed) in Mary’s womb (on earth) … by God the Holy Spirit.

Christ (English) = Cristos (Greek) = Messiah (Hebrew)

How did the Holy Spirit perform this miraculous “Immaculate Conception”?
Possibility #1: the Holy Spirit provided the male sperm necessary
Possibility #2: the Holy Spirit “created” the fetus in Mary’s womb

God the Holy Spirit “created” Jesus

The archangel Gabriel said to the virgin Mary:
“And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son,
and shall call His name Jesus … The Holy Spirit will come upon you,
and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also,
that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.” (Luke 1:31-35)
Jesus was called “the Son of God” because His “Father” was God the Holy Spirit!
ed Isaiah as saying: Jesus would be “God with us” …

And Gabriel said to Joseph:
“… that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.
And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus
… So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was
spoken by the Lord through the prophet (Isaiah), saying:
‘Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall
call His name Immanuel’, which is translated, ‘God with us’.” (Matthew 1:20-23)

Did Jesus inherit man’s sin nature?
Years ago, a British lady doctor told me (via email)
that every human inherits the DNA of BOTH parents.
So, unless the Holy Spirit over-rode this (which is a possibility),
the baby Jesus in Mary’s womb inherited her DNA.

Does this mean that Jesus was “fully man”?

“Therefore, it was necessary for Him to be made in every respect like us,
His brothers and sisters, so that He could be our merciful and faithful
High Priest before God.” (Hebrews 2:17)

So, Jesus was “fully man” … But, how then could He be “fully God”?

God the Word’s role in the “creation” of Jesus

“… the Word was God … And the Word became human (Jesus Christ)
and made His home among us.” (John 1:1, 1:14)

So, Jesus was “fully God” … But, wouldn’t this over-ride His sin nature?

Your comments on all of this would be most interesting!

And just thought I’d ask:
When did God the Word become a human being (Jesus Christ)
… while Jesus was in the womb, or after He was born?

This is ridiculous.

Man did not become God; God became man. God was in the likeness of sinful man but did not have a sinful nature. Why?

because sin is passed down through the man, not the woman. The egg of women has no life without the Father. There was no sperm from the Holy Spirit, as it was said in the Word of God. This was a supernatural act by GOD. Jesus was fully man and fully GOD without sin.

 

[CS1]

I agree that viewing the pre-incarnate Jesus as the Word works better than any other concept I can envision.

Word/Truth is easily viewed as the mind of Christ, which is associated with the young Jesus in the temple but I can't conceive of Him as a Spirit-filled baby.

well, to bad the word of God tells us he came as a child and birthed as we are yet without sin.

 

[p_rehbein]

Where did I ever deny the Deity of Jesus?

By stating that Jesus was "created." Jesus is, was and always will be FULLY GOD!

Revelation 22:

12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

John, Chapter 1:

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,and the Word was God.

2The same was in the beginning with God.

3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Jesus WAS NOT "created."

To deny the Deity of Jesus is to face eternal damnation......

Catholic teachings are an abomination IMO, for they are NOT the Gospel of Jesus

 

[GWH]

well, to bad the word of God tells us he came as a child and birthed as we are yet without sin.

Please cite the scripture that says Jesus was birthed full of the Holy Spirit.

(BTW, you missed my pun :^)

 

[CS1]

Please cite the scripture that says Jesus was birthed full of the Holy Spirit.

(BTW, you missed my pun :^)

"scripture that says Jesus was birthed full of the Holy Spirit"


sure
Matthew 2:20
20 But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.


Luke 1:30-35

30 Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus. 32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33 And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.”

34 Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?”

35 And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.

 

[wattie]

Post No.8 shows how very easy it is to prove Jesus is one of Adam's paternal
descendants.

Now as uncomfortable as that thought may be for a fairly large number of
sincere Christians; it means Jesus' human origin was the very same dust of
the Earth that was used to create Adam.

If so; then the Word exists today as a binary being: the one a creator, and
the other a creation, i.e. the Word exists as an eternal being and a temporal
being simultaneously, viz: a spirit being and a material being both at the
same time.

The Word's binary existence is nigh unto impossible for some branches of
Christianity to accept: for example the Jehovah's Witnesses-- a religion that
insists the Word can't possibly exist as two kinds of beings simultaneously,
rather, only one at a time. But until they can see that Jesus is a bona fides
real life theophany, they will always aggressively, and perpetually, oppose
the Trinity.

● Heb 2:16-17 . . For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham's
descendants. For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every
way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in
service to God.

In other words; the empathy of Jesus' service as a high priest for the Jews
would've been greatly reduced were his human origin other than theirs.
_

He obviously had a human form as Jesus, and as you say with the human lineage through David.

But there is never a point where He did not exist.

He is the inheritor of promises and the unique Son of God.. but not created.

Anyway...methinks we are saying the same thing in different perspectives

 

[GWH]

"scripture that says Jesus was birthed full of the Holy Spirit"


sure
Matthew 2:20
20 But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.


Luke 1:30-35

30 Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus. 32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33 And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.”

34 Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?”

35 And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.

Well, "full" isn't there, but it is pretty close, so I accept it, although I was trying to be punny.

 

[CS1]

Well, "full" isn't there, but it is pretty close, so I accept it, although I was trying to be punny.

Does it have to say full, or did the Holy Spirit come upon Mary in part?

 

[Magenta]

Many churches teach that the Son of God (Jesus Christ) came down from heaven
to be the Messiah, the Savior. But, this is just NOT true because Jesus was
created (or formed) in Mary’s womb (on earth) … by God the Holy Spirit.

John 3:13 John 6:33 John 6:38 No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven- the Son of Man. For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world. I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me.
Thank you for the inspiration! I hope you and yours are well .

 

[CS1]

This is ridiculous.

Man did not become God; God became man. God was in the likeness of sinful man but did not have a sinful nature. Why?

because sin is passed down through the man, not the woman. The egg of women has no life without the Father. There was no sperm from the Holy Spirit, as it was said in the Word of God. This was a supernatural act by GOD. Jesus was fully man and fully GOD without sin.

in addition, sperm is flesh produced in the male body The Holy Spirit is not flesh. I want to say this idea is called profaning which means to make common.

 

[GWH]

Does it have to say full, or did the Holy Spirit come upon Mary in part?

Well, the New Testament does not teach that the Holy Spirit indwells believers from birth but rather begins indwelling souls old enough to place faith in Christ, so those verses remain problematic or debatable. Saying I agree meant that I recognize Jesus may have been a special case, although HB 2:14-18 could be cited against viewing him as a Spirit-filled fetus.

 

[posthuman]

Catholic teachings are an abomination IMO, for they are NOT the Gospel of Jesus

even the RCC teaches Christ was 'begotten' not created, that He is eternally God, coexistent with the Father and the Spirit.

what the OP is putting forth is essentially Arianism, which is universally condemned as heresy by the orthodox, the catholic, and the protestant churches, and was the primary reason the Nicean council was called.

 

[posthuman]

Did Jesus inherit man’s sin nature?
Years ago, a British lady doctor told me (via email)
that every human inherits the DNA of BOTH parents.
So, unless the Holy Spirit over-rode this (which is a possibility),
the baby Jesus in Mary’s womb inherited her DNA

Romans 5 tells us that through one man sin spread to all, not through one woman, even though she was the first in sin.
so the sin nature & corresponding mortagenic factor is passed on by the male gamete, not the female.
this is partially why He must be virgin-born

 

[GWH]

Romans 5 tells us that through one man sin spread to all, not through one woman, even though she was the first in sin.
so the sin nature & corresponding mortagenic factor is passed on by the male gamete, not the female.
this is partially why He must be virgin-born

A careful reading of the A&E story notes that Eve helped Adam by handing the forbidden fruit to him, who was with her, and they both realized their sin and both covered up. Paul blames both, but one at a time: Adam in RM 5:12 and Eve in 2CR 11:3.

GN 3:4. The serpent contradicted God and thereby tempted Adam and Eve to commit the first sin. In GN 2:17, God had told Adam and Eve they would die if they ate fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, but the serpent introduced the option of ungodliness or functional atheism, which they chose.

The first or original sin was not eating physical fruit, but rather choosing not to doubt the Devil, not to cooperate with God, and not asking God why the serpent contradicted what He had told them (MT 7:7). It is wise to question God.

GN 3:7-13. Adam and Eve tried to cover up their crime, refusing to accept responsibility for their mistakes. They should have confessed immediately (1JN 1:9). Instead their ungodly attitude was manifested by a chain of sins, including their silly attempt to hide from God and to blame someone else and very likely “dysfunctional” parenting that probably contributed to the emotional disturbance (anger) in Cain that resulted in the murder of Abel and so on and so forth through the millenniums (cf. humanity’s sinful “King of the Hill”/ KOTH/strife).

 

[Webers.Home]

.
The so-called original sin is commonly believed to be inherited from one's
natural father. Oh? From whence did Eve get it?

She was fully formed and constructed with material taken from Adam's body
prior to his tasting the forbidden fruit so it was too late for him to pass his
mistake on to her by means of heredity.

FAQ: Did Jesus' virgin conception insulate him from the original sin?

REPLY: No.

FAQ: Why not?

REPLY: Because Adam's mistake isn't transmitted by means of heredity.

Note the grammatical tense of the verse below-- it's past tense rather than
either present or future; indicating that Adam's entire posterity was
slammed right then, i.e. we were all made joint principals with him in his
sin the very moment Adam took the first bite-- no delay and no waiting
period.

● Rom 5:12 . .Through one man sin entered into the world, and death
through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned.

FAQ: How then can it be honestly said Jesus was a lamb without spot or
blemish?

REPLY: Jesus was collateral damage, i.e. he committed no sins of his own to
answer for (John 8:29, 2Cor 5:21, Heb 4:15, 1Pet 2:22) In point of fact,
according to 1John 3:9 it was impossible for Jesus to commit sins of his own.

FAQ: Wasn't Adam's mistake a sin unto Hell?

REPLY: No; the primary retribution for Adam tasting the forbidden fruit was
just simply his loss of immortality. He was hit with a few other consequences
too, but mortality was the main one. In other words: had Jesus not been
crucified he would've eventually died of some other cause.
_

 

[dougcho]

Jesus, God the Son, is the "LIVING WORD." Jesus was not created, Jesus is, was and always will be with no beginning or end. Jesus is FULLY GOD! God the Son.

Sorry, but it's all about semantics.

Before the Incarnation, He was called "the Word".

After the Incarnation, Gabriel said to CALL Him
"Jesus" and "the Son of God".

Jesus, the God-Man, did NOT exist pre-Incarnation.
Jesus, the God-Man, did exist after His ascension.

 

[homwardbound]

Post No.8 shows how very easy it is to prove Jesus is one of Adam's paternal
descendants.

Now as uncomfortable as that thought may be for a fairly large number of
sincere Christians; it means Jesus' human origin was the very same dust of
the Earth that was used to create Adam.

If so; then the Word exists today as a binary being: the one a creator, and
the other a creation, i.e. the Word exists as an eternal being and a temporal
being simultaneously, viz: a spirit being and a material being both at the
same time.

The Word's binary existence is nigh unto impossible for some branches of
Christianity to accept: for example the Jehovah's Witnesses-- a religion that
insists the Word can't possibly exist as two kinds of beings simultaneously,
rather, only one at a time. But until they can see that Jesus is a bona fides
real life theophany, they will always aggressively, and perpetually, oppose
the Trinity.

● Heb 2:16-17 . . For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham's
descendants. For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every
way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in
service to God.

In other words; the empathy of Jesus' service as a high priest for the Jews
would've been greatly reduced were his human origin other than theirs.
_

I simply see this

Authorized (King James) Version Hebrews 7:11-12

If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

We now are in the Law of Love (1 Cor 13:4-7) to all thanks

 

[CS1]

Well, the New Testament does not teach that the Holy Spirit indwells believers from birth but rather begins indwelling souls old enough to place faith in Christ, so those verses remain problematic or debatable. Saying I agree meant that I recognize Jesus may have been a special case, although HB 2:14-18 could be cited against viewing him as a Spirit-filled fetus.

Really, what about the Birth of John the Baptist? Was he not ordained a Prophet before HIS Birth? Did not the baby leap in Elizabeth's womb?

 

[Magenta]

GN 3:4. The serpent contradicted God and thereby tempted Adam and Eve to commit the first sin.

Adam listened to Eve, not Satan.

 

[posthuman]

A careful reading of the A&E story notes that Eve helped Adam by handing the forbidden fruit to him, who was with her, and they both realized their sin and both covered up. Paul blames both, but one at a time: Adam in RM 5:12 and Eve in 2CR 11:3.

GN 3:4. The serpent contradicted God and thereby tempted Adam and Eve to commit the first sin. In GN 2:17, God had told Adam and Eve they would die if they ate fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, but the serpent introduced the option of ungodliness or functional atheism, which they chose.

The first or original sin was not eating physical fruit, but rather choosing not to doubt the Devil, not to cooperate with God, and not asking God why the serpent contradicted what He had told them (MT 7:7). It is wise to question God.

GN 3:7-13. Adam and Eve tried to cover up their crime, refusing to accept responsibility for their mistakes. They should have confessed immediately (1JN 1:9). Instead their ungodly attitude was manifested by a chain of sins, including their silly attempt to hide from God and to blame someone else and very likely “dysfunctional” parenting that probably contributed to the emotional disturbance (anger) in Cain that resulted in the murder of Abel and so on and so forth through the millenniums (cf. humanity’s sinful “King of the Hill”/ KOTH/strife).

• Adam and his wife both confessed their sin at first opportunity.
• You should not consider them so stupid that they thought they could hide from God. The choice of fig leaves is profound, and they were afraid - not of God, whom they immediately answered when He called, but of their shame.
• They were not cursed. Instead God she'd innocent blood to cover them with garments made by His own hand. He then prevented them from being able to enter eternal death and "kept" the way to the tree of life for their sake. That is Salvation.
• Adam did not blame his wife. God would never accept such an answer, but accepted Adam's answer. Adam's answer indicacatwd his actions were out of his responsibility and love for her.
• Adam was not deceived. Not by Satan, not by his wife, and not by himself. he sinned with full and accurate knowledge of what he was doing.
• Paul does not "blame" Woman in Corinthians: he is not self-contradictory. Romans 5 is very clear that tho Woman was first in sin, sin spread to all men through Adam, and through sin, also death. Adam when he met his wife after she had sinned was a perfect, sinless human being interacting with a dying, sinful human being. he made a choice to join her, fully aware of what he was doing and not under any kind of delusion about the act or what it would result in.